Lack of communication in marriage

[Winter_Warlock_1]

Catholic Wife,

I am sorry that you are going through this. Let me first say that from what I read in your posts – you are trying so do not let anyone tell you that: any of this is your fault, that you need to change, or something foolish like that. It is almost akin to someone telling the person of a crime that it is there fault they were targeted. The arrogance of some on this site just gets me angry so I will try to curb that from my post (I do not always succeed).

The issue maybe that he is feeling resentment that there are no children and the fact that he does not want to go through the testing process could be: he does not want to find out that he is the one that cannot have children. So it is easier to sit in self-pity. I know of several people that have “health” issues – of all types – but they do not want to go to a doctor to get checked for they are afraid of what might found, that whole ”ignorance is bliss” mentality.

What you could do is:

You get checked to see if you are capable of having children regardless if he wants to get checked.

You need to be strong and possibly get “in his face” and tell him flat out all that your feeling and that he is giving you the impression that he does not want to be married, but to have a roommate so that he does not feel lonely.

Talk to your Priest also for he can better inform you of the Churches stance on this, but from my view point is that this could be a type of mental abuse for resentment or anger that he has but is will not to express or work through.

But again remember – whatever “issues” you have, he should be there to support and help you overcome them, not just go off by himself leaving you alone! So again do not let anyone here tell you that it is your fault or that you HAVE to live the rest of your life in misery. Some here do offer good advice (Debora123, and Einna as examples).

I will pray that God grants you strength and peace.

Winter

 

[peacoat]

I’m not allowed to use his precious power tools. He would have a major conniption fit if I did.

There is no “his” in marriage. Not ok. Unless he uses them for work or there is some pressing reason, they are yours, too. There is no his and hers.

I did. I checked out fine.

Hmmm. Yet again he fails to deliver. Maybe you do need to do something drastic. Since he so strongly believes in his and hers, open your own savings account and rent a nice, clean, 2 bedroom apartment where you can have friends visit. He is not treating you as a wife and is being emotinally abusive. Why do I say that?

You have revealed that he has set boundaries about what is his and cannot be touched My gut reaction- REALLY? I had roomates who were more flexible in college

You revealed that he will not care for himself
My gut reaction- so he’s using you to whine to but won’t do a darned thing about his pain making you feel helpless

You revealed that he puts his five cats above you
My gut reaction- 5 cats? Is he an old cat lady? That’s absolutely rediciulous number and attitude that all are his babies. More along the lines of my grandma…and she only has 2 cats!

You reveled that he is distant when watching TV
My gut reaction- so he has no emotinal energy for you

You reveal that you have no intmacy
My gut reaction- that’s not a marriage, that’s like a hostage situation

You reveal that he make verbal negative comparisions about you (if not directly namecalls)
My gut reaction- Is he 5 years old? The emotinal age of this guy must be so stunted to do that on a regular basis.

I think that leaving may give you some peace. You are living with a toxic man. I don’t know if it’s chemical, or innate, or what. But it sounds like he really just wants you as a giant teddy bear.

 

[Catholic_Wife]

Thank you for your kind words and prayers.

The issue maybe that he is feeling resentment that there are no children and the fact that he does not want to go through the testing process could be: he does not want to find out that he is the one that cannot have children.

So it is easier to sit in self-pity. I know of several people that have “health” issues – of all types – but they do not want to go to a doctor to get checked for they are afraid of what might found, that whole ”ignorance is bliss” mentality.
I admit, that was a problem a few years ago; but I have moved past that and let the anger and disappointment go. I have accepted that we will not have children and I see it more as a blessing than anything else. I can honestly say that I do not want to have children at this point in my life: in my 40’s, working full-time and going to nursing school.

My frustration is more about the fact that we have been in our home 4 years and, although we have all the supplies already bought (flooring, etc.) we still have concrete floors in some rooms, some rooms and the garage are filled with clutter than he will not weed through while he sits and watches TV, and the fact that he and I don’t communicate well at all yet I don’t think he sees our lack of communication as a problem. I’m frustrated that he seems content to live as roommates rather than as husband and wife, and he doesn’t seem willing to put in the work to change it.

 

[bitznbitez]

Buy and read “Three To Get Married” by Archbishop Fulton Sheen.

Its very relevant, and very different from most of the advice being given on this thread.

 

[KCT]

I’m not allowed to use his precious power tools. He would have a major conniption fit if I did.

Buy your own and get to work. Get some friends to help. Hire someone.

Seriously, if the unfinished house bugs you (and it would most surely bug me!), take steps on your own to get it taken care of. At least you’d feel better about that.

 

[Catholic_Wife]

What can I do? He won’t sit down to talk to me. He refuses to go to counseling, because he’s not the one with the problem (I’m the one with anxiety). He won’t talk to the deacon or the priest at our parish. He won’t talk to his parents. He won’t talk to my parents. He doesn’t have any friends to talk to about this.
http://christsgarden.com/forums/images/smilies/thsmiley_sigh.gif

If no suggestions, please at least pray. I’ve been praying about this for years and I’m getting tired.

Since there seems to be no real solution to getting him to want to communicate better in our marriage that I haven’t already tried or suggested to him, and separation/divorce is NOT an option, I would appreciate your prayers for my marriage.

 

[The_Bucket]

Since there seems to be no real solution to getting him to want to communicate better in our marriage that I haven’t already tried or suggested to him, and separation/divorce is NOT an option, I would appreciate your prayers for my marriage.

I’m not one to varnish anything (this extends to furniture as well) so I’ll be blunt. What you’re saying is that there is no solution and so you want prayers to magically change things. I’m not a “God helps those that help themselves” person, but I am the type of person who believes that we are God’s chosen way to act in the world. He will at times miraculously intervene, but usually we are called to do the grunt work.

I won’t blame anything on you, but I’ll also concur with other posters who have said that you can’t make someone else change. You just can’t. The only person you can change is you. You have to let go of the resentment because the only person it hurts is you. He’s mentally checked out, so it’s not hurting him, just you. And is the resentment actually helping your marriage or just damaging it further? I find it amazing that I’m giving this advice because I’m the type of guy to hold onto stuff forever but the truth is that I’ve only found my life improving when I let it go. I just have to. I’m not “winning” by hanging onto anger and trying to extract blood and tears from other people. In this case it’s likely a futile effort since he doesn’t seem to care.

So work on changing you. I agree with the others who said you should just do the renovations yourself or hire someone else. Just get it done and it’s one less source of anxiety. If he complains, who the heck cares? What’s he gonna do, rip it back up? Have his cats screw it up? Just take the power tools and get going. If he complains, tell him that’s too bad and restrain yourself from calling him out for being a petulant child. You’d be accurate, but that probably wouldn’t help either.

Get the anxieties that you can control out of your life. Get the home improvement work done. Improve your communication efforts. Boost your spiritual life and seek inner peace. Maybe go to Mass more often and seek shelter in the Eucharist.

If he comes back around to counseling some day, jump on that and don’t go into it with a “FINALLY” mindset. Let it go. You can’t change him and prayers won’t magically change him unless he wants to change. You can, however, take action to change you and improve your relationship with God. Do it.

 

[PaulinVA]

The way I read Tom’s post is that he’s suggesting that the OP frame issues are “I statements.” I can’t get a good night’s sleep with the cats in the room. What can we do about this? vs. You want the cats here when you know they wake me up all night. The other person is less likely to feel attacked if problems are framed as “I” needing something vs. “you” are doing something.

I don’t think communicating in I statements means the OP is accepting all the fault in the marriage. It a way of communicating non-confrontationally.
.

I think the problem with this line of reasoning it that the husband can take those non-confrontational “I” statements and conclude that the problems are all her fault and she needs to solve her problems.

As an example, by saying HE refuses to keep the cats out of the bedroom. HE refuses to continue the renovations, she places the issue in front of the person who can solve it. It might be more confrontational, but is more truthful.

 

[einna]

Try to create a life of your own, your own friends and activities. He might just take notice that he has no life and no friends. Talk to a deacon in your parish who understands more what a good marriage should be,

Why is separation not an option? Some priests will tell you that you have grounds for an annulment because of his lack of connection.and participation in your marriage.Maybe he needs a jolt to see you are serious about how unhappy you are. If you stay, focus on yourself and make sure you find the support you need from others.

 

[Catholic_Wife]

Why is separation not an option? Some priests will tell you that you have grounds for an annulment because of his lack of connection.and participation in your marriage

.
I wouldn’t know if there were grounds for annulment unless I divorce him. I do not believe in divorce unless there is addiction, abuse or adultery. Since I don’t think he is doing this purposely, I cannot bring myself to divorce him (yet). Maybe in a year or two. I just don’t need the drama of a divorce right now when I can change my way of thinking to make the situation more bearable.

 

[Luna_Lovecraft]

I think the problem with this line of reasoning it that the husband can take those non-confrontational “I” statements and conclude that the problems are all her fault and she needs to solve her problems.

As an example, by saying HE refuses to keep the cats out of the bedroom. HE refuses to continue the renovations, she places the issue in front of the person who can solve it. It might be more confrontational, but is more truthful.

Perhaps. And this is why I’ll reiterate that the OP would be best served by receiving face-to-face, professional counselling with someone who’s trained and educated in marital communication strategies. If one strategy doesn’t work, they can come up with a different one. And another one is that one is a bust.

People will oftentimes open up and say things if they feel as if they’re not going to be judged or attacked or are in a emotion-neutral environment like an office. A professional third party will deflate heated emotions and keep one spouse from verbal attacks. And a counselor will also listen to a couple talk to each other and stop them when they notice maladaptive communication strategies.

And if the OP’s spouse refuses counseling, she should still go herself. it’s not optimal, but it’s a lot better than doing nothing.

 

[peacoat]

I wouldn’t know if there were grounds for annulment unless I divorce him. I do not believe in divorce unless there is addiction, abuse or adultery. Since I don’t think he is doing this purposely, I cannot bring myself to divorce him (yet). Maybe in a year or two. I just don’t need the drama of a divorce right now when I can change my way of thinking to make the situation more bearable.

Uhh, verbal/emotinal abuse is what this is. And if you wait to see if he does it on purpose you’ll never get it. He’s unintentionally trapped you in his mind games of laziness.

You should separate. Think of what a freedom it would be to not have that laziness, drama and antagonistic cloud hanging around. Don’t worry about divorce right now, just get some healing for yourself. You have a diagnosed anxiety disorder and right now you’re only hurting yourself by staying in this depressing, verbally abusive, toxic situation. This does not mean divorce. This just means that you need a break. After 6 months (get a 6 month lease) if HE decides he wants to get better, then you have a good marriage and husband back. If he dosn’t want to, then you have freedom and discovery of who you are without his ridicuolos emotinal blacmail.

 

[einna]

I wouldn’t know if there were grounds for annulment unless I divorce him. I do not believe in divorce unless there is addiction, abuse or adultery. Since I don’t think he is doing this purposely, I cannot bring myself to divorce him (yet). Maybe in a year or two. I just don’t need the drama of a divorce right now when I can change my way of thinking to make the situation more bearable.

I completely understand what you are saying and I applaud you for it. He is however purposely not going to talk with someone, but that doesn’t mean you can’t. Neglect is considered abuse. Once you find a support system things may change, for the better or worse. Just make sure your self esteem and self worth stays strong and that you believe in yourself. Make sure you are as open about how you feel as you could possibly be so that he can’t come back and say he never knew how you felt.

 

[Irishmom2]

I’m not one to varnish anything (this extends to furniture as well) so I’ll be blunt. What you’re saying is that there is no solution and so you want prayers to magically change things. I’m not a “God helps those that help themselves” person, but I am the type of person who believes that we are God’s chosen way to act in the world. He will at times miraculously intervene, but usually we are called to do the grunt work.

I won’t blame anything on you, but I’ll also concur with other posters who have said that you can’t make someone else change. You just can’t. The only person you can change is you. You have to let go of the resentment because the only person it hurts is you. He’s mentally checked out, so it’s not hurting him, just you. And is the resentment actually helping your marriage or just damaging it further? I find it amazing that I’m giving this advice because I’m the type of guy to hold onto stuff forever but the truth is that I’ve only found my life improving when I let it go. I just have to. I’m not “winning” by hanging onto anger and trying to extract blood and tears from other people. In this case it’s likely a futile effort since he doesn’t seem to care.

So work on changing you. I agree with the others who said you should just do the renovations yourself or hire someone else. Just get it done and it’s one less source of anxiety. If he complains, who the heck cares? What’s he gonna do, rip it back up? Have his cats screw it up? Just take the power tools and get going. If he complains, tell him that’s too bad and restrain yourself from calling him out for being a petulant child. You’d be accurate, but that probably wouldn’t help either.

Get the anxieties that you can control out of your life. Get the home improvement work done. Improve your communication efforts. Boost your spiritual life and seek inner peace. Maybe go to Mass more often and seek shelter in the Eucharist.

If he comes back around to counseling some day, jump on that and don’t go into it with a “FINALLY” mindset. Let it go. You can’t change him and prayers won’t magically change him unless he wants to change. You can, however, take action to change you and improve your relationship with God. Do it.

This. Why would you tread on eggshells worrying about what he thinks when he isn’t giving you the same treatment? Make things happen in your house on your own. So he complains, at least your house is livable. I agree with whoever said get your own power tools. He has to learn he can’t control everything unless you let him.

 

[TomFromMD]

"Catholic_Wife:

Going for a walk isn’t going to get our house renovated. Holding hands and talking isn’t going to stop the cats from pouncing on me in the middle of the night and waking me up. I have discussed each issue I presented here (and lots of others) one at a time. One problem is that he doesn’t like to be pulled away from the TV. I even ask if we can talk after the program he’s watching, but then he gets wrapped up in another. I don’t fight it any longer. I don’t get mad or screech like some women do. I simply walk away and surf the Net just to have him come to me and complain that I’m always on the computer.

Sorry - I guess I misread your biggest emotional need. If you could fix just one thing in your marriage, what would it be? (Incidentally, have you ever read The Five Languages of Love? Great book. I looked to see if they have a DVD, since your husband seems disposed to TV - they don’t, but they do have an audio version).

Catholic_Wife:

Can you understand how it would make me feel that he would rather sleep with the cats than with his own wife???

Yeah, that would drive me crazy.

I would appreciate your prayers for my marriage.

Done!

PaulinVA:

As an example, by saying HE refuses to keep the cats out of the bedroom. HE refuses to continue the renovations, she places the issue in front of the person who can solve it. It might be more confrontational, but is more truthful.

But he won’t solve anything. He’ll retreat into his shell, because he’ll feel attacked. People practically always get defensive when approached with “You” statements, so they’re rarely effective. (Especially when they’re “You always” or “You never” statements). I realize now that in explaining using “I” statements, I should have explained it without using the word “You”. I’ll have to figure out a better way to do that.

To the several people who suggested separation - everything I’ve read suggests that that would be the deathnell for a marriage like this - a marriage of “not enough”.

I totally agree with those who say she would benefit much more from a good marriage counsellor than from anything we say…

 

[Menfitano]

I have read your post with great interest. I feel that I can relate to a number of things that you are writing about in my current relationship with my girlfriend.

I think that there are some things that you need to consider.

1. Talk to others about how you feel. Speak to your priest, friends, family. If possible, join a support group. You can do all of this now, without the help of your husband.
2. Try and welcome your husband into conversation. I believe he must surely love you but simply cannot express it. From what you have described, I believe he is intensely depressed. This is likely the underlying issue for him, which naturally stems from malcontent in his own life.
3. Bring order to the house however you can. A clean, uncluttered, warm, sunny home lifts the spirit. Even if you have to do this on your own. The time to start bringing organization and cleanliness to the house must be now. You will also start to accomplish small goals with each item you accomplish and therefore start to feel better about yourself. Your husband may even join you in the cleanup once he sees that it is successful.

God’s grace to you,
Alan

 

[KCT]

What can I do? He won’t sit down to talk to me. He refuses to go to counseling, because he’s not the one with the problem (I’m the one with anxiety). He won’t talk to the deacon or the priest at our parish. He won’t talk to his parents. He won’t talk to my parents. He doesn’t have any friends to talk to about this.

Passive/ aggressive? As long as he does nothing, he’s controlling the relationship (i.e. by not agreeing to actually ‘do’ anything).

Start doing things yourself - household repairs, counseling on your own, talking to a priest, whatever you need to do. Show him that he is not in control of your happiness or your ability to get things done. Honestly, if he won’t do any of the things you mention, you can a) do nothing, too or b) go do what makes you happy. (or as happy as possible under the circumstances)

 

[CopticChristian]

Communication is non-existent in my marriage, as has been since Day 1. My husband is an introvert and is happy to spend much of his time on his own, but this leaves me feeling lonely.

In the beginning of our marriage the loneliness was unbearable. He didn’t want to talk about our fertility problems and refused to get tested (using Church-approved methods). The fact that he didn’t want to do anything to help get pregnant left me wondering if he had lied to me during marriage prep about wanting children. After a couple of years, I decided I was tired of being lonely and told him I wanted to leave. He insisted that we go to Retrouvaille. Things were better for a couple of months after that weekend, but we didn’t even finish the workbook because it was just too much effort for him to communicate with me every day. I won’t leave because he has given me no reason to fear for my safety (abuse, addiction, adultery), but here we are 6.5 years into marriage with no kids and no intimate life for more than 2 years. We sleep in separate bedrooms because he doesn’t seem to care that our cats wake me up when they are allowed in the bedroom, so I don’t get enough sleep, and that running the fan dries out my sinuses and makes me sick. It’s like I have a roommate instead of a husband.

And I’m frustrated with him, especially when it comes to home renovation because he procrastinates. We bought a home 4 years ago that needed a lot of renovations. We worked well together for 6 months, but then all of our hard work was destroyed by flooding inside the house. Here we are 3 years later with no flooring in two of our bedrooms (so we have no guest bedroom, so nobody can come visit; the workout room he promised me is not finished so I’m still spending money on a monthly gym membership), one of our bathrooms doesn’t have a sink, and the outside of the house looks terrible. (Did I mention he also procrastinates?) I cannot get him to understand how much anxiety having the house unfinished and cluttered causes me. I cannot get him to realize that I am so embarrassed about how our home looks that I am uncomfortable having people over. He doesn’t want me to do the smaller projects (that I can do myself) that would help us declutter our home because he wants to be involved with everything done in the house, yet he procrastinates and finds reasons to not do the work.
http://christsgarden.com/forums/images/smilies/thsmiley_sigh.gif

What can I do? He won’t sit down to talk to me. He refuses to go to counseling, because he’s not the one with the problem (I’m the one with anxiety). He won’t talk to the deacon or the priest at our parish. He won’t talk to his parents. He won’t talk to my parents. He doesn’t have any friends to talk to about this.

If no suggestions, please at least pray. I’ve been praying about this for years and I’m getting tired.

CW,

The only way to change your husbands behavior is to change your behavior. This should change the way he responds to you.

You go to counseling.

You speak to the Deacon.

You speak to the priest.

You create a social life.

You find joy in your life and show him that joy and sooner or later it should peak his interest.

This is a tough road, you must take care of yourself, and invite him to join you in caring for each other.

 

[GutsfromBerserk]

I’m not allowed to use his precious power tools. He would have a major conniption fit if I did.

I did. I checked out fine.

Then he would say, as he has in the past, “you’re just like your mother,” which is a really sore subject in our home.

We have five cats, two of whom do not get along very well, so locking them in a bathroom (or even a bedroom) would border on cruel. I tried closing the door to keep them out, but he complained that he misses his “babies” sleeping with him. I didn’t care about the nights when I didn’t have to work the next day, but it got to be a hassle to sleep in one room one night (so I could sleep before work) and another room the next.

I even called to make the dr appointment for him on a day he confirmed he had no plans and did not have to work. He couldn’t be bothered to go. He’s not in that much pain, he just procrastinates. He was this way before he hurt his knee earlier this year.

Catholicfwife, with all respect to you as you seem like a really fine woman, I have to say you’re husband is an absolutely selfish jerk. You say that you shut down; theres no need to because even if you were capable of fixing the floors yourself or whatever, he’s still emotionally negelectful whereas you yourself seem to want to fix your relationship with him. Such a person is not worhty of your love if he doesn’t consider his wife’s feelings.

First thing’s firs: don’t shut down, open up! Don’t let him do what he wants with you becuase thats not turning the other cheek, it’s being weak. It’s ebtter tod efend yourself against someone and accomplish something than to do nothing and accomplish nothing. Because I am against divorce, I don’t suggest it but in all respect in my opinion a woman should leave such an abusive husband. Don’t consider what the neighbours or friends who don’t know of your situation will say because as is utterly obvious, you know more than their rash judgements would ever know. Take your stuff, the money you yourself earned and leave. If he uses threats of violence, file a police report. A close family member had an abusive boyfriend who would ebat ehr. We filed a police report and they warned him and he left her alone. No lawsuits, no money spent, just peace and an emotionally stable relative back.

Even if you were to leave, you shouldn’t feel guilty becuase you’d have followed what you thought was best for you. Even if he does repent, you must make sure that he is sincere so as to avoid more heartbreak.

So no Tom and Luna and peacot, it’s not her fault. There is also nothing wrong with ‘hashing’ out your problems and opening them up with internet strangers, as if opening up is weak or patethic when in fact it’s a way to find a solution to your problems. It certainly helped me. I mean dude, if you find such a practice wrong then why are you even posting here?

 

[Philo3]

I think we have to be really careful about telling people what to do or not do. Plenty of times women in abusive relationships are blamed for the situation - “maybe if you could phrase is as an “I” statement it wouldn’t trigger his anger.” Neglect is a form of abuse, anger over the use of the power tools is a type of controlling abuse.

It seems to me that counseling is necessary even if your husband won’t go, because you need some one that you can spread the whole picture of the relationship out to and then go from there. We only get bits and peices online here, and that is not fair to you to get bits and peices of advice that may be way off. You can’t change him or make him want to change, but in Al-Anon they say that relationships are like an algebra equation - if you change one variable you change the outcome. So, whether you stay in the marriage or decide that it is best to leave (separation or divorce) counseling can help you. You could try phone counseling through Pastoral Solutions if you want a Catholic counselor and can’t find one near you.