Lack of Questioning Leads to Atheism?

[jmcrae]

If you have a handbook, which describes how to summon up a demon, I will be glad to hear it.

I don’t have such a thing.

In an exorcism, the demon has already been summoned, typically by the person who needs the exorcism, from what I understand.

The church also teaches that God is not a “vending machine”. To teach both “A” and “not-A” is pretty useful, if you don’t want to be caught.

That I have access to God through prayer and the Sacraments doesn’t make God into a vending machine, any more than replying to my messages to you turns you into a vending machine. The fact that I can communicate with you doesn’t provide me with the ability to make you do whatever I want you to do - and as far as I know, we are equals. God is far above me in rank and status, so prayer and the Sacraments, although there they are means of communication with God, don’t allow me to make Him do whatever I want Him to do.

 

[jmcrae]

The quote concerned demons, a.k.a. mental disorders.

Aside from which, does any law court in the world agree that moral culpability can be set aside due to demon possession?

Moral culpability is set aside in cases of mental illness, and the courts would probably take the same view that you have; that demonic possession is simply another term for mental illness.

Jesus believed in demons, and exorcized them - or so I read in the Gospels. I therefore see no reason to doubt their existence.

 

[PRmerger]

That I have access to God through prayer and the Sacraments doesn’t make God into a vending machine, any more than replying to my messages to you turns you into a vending machine. The fact that I can communicate with you doesn’t provide me with the ability to make you do whatever I want you to do - and as far as I know, we are equals. God is far above me in rank and status, so prayer and the Sacraments, although there they are means of communication with God, don’t allow me to make Him do whatever I want Him to do.

Indeed.

And, similarly, planting a seed into the ground and getting a plant doesn’t make God a vending machine either.

 

[inocente]

Moral culpability is set aside in cases of mental illness, and the courts would probably take the same view that you have; that demonic possession is simply another term for mental illness.

Jesus believed in demons, and exorcized them - or so I read in the Gospels. I therefore see no reason to doubt their existence.

The people then believed disorders were caused by demons, and Jesus spoke in words they understood.

 

[Vera_Ljuba]

I don’t have such a thing.

In an exorcism, the demon has already been summoned, typically by the person who needs the exorcism, from what I understand.

Well, since the exorcist allegedly has the power to force that demon to leave, it is a reasonable assumption that he also has the power to summon. Especially since - according to you - the afflicted one has already did the “summoning”.

That I have access to God through prayer and the Sacraments doesn’t make God into a vending machine, any more than replying to my messages to you turns you into a vending machine.

That is not what I am talking about. Every time someone utters a supplicatory or intercessory prayer (but NOT a meditative prayer) this person attempts to use God as a vending machine. And that is millions of prayers every day. *The problem is that when I ask (not demand) God to manifest himself, the only objection from you (in general again) that I attempt to use God as a vending machine, and that is a major no-no. *

The fact that I can communicate with you doesn’t provide me with the ability to make you do whatever I want you to do - and as far as I know, we are equals. God is far above me in rank and status, so prayer and the Sacraments, although there they are means of communication with God, don’t allow me to make Him do whatever I want Him to do.

If you never utter a supplicatory prayer, then I have no complaint. But if you EVER ask God to DO something, then you ATTEMPT to use God as a vending machine.

 

[davidv]

Well, since the exorcist allegedly has the power to force that demon to leave, it is a reasonable assumption that he also has the power to summon. Especially since - according to you - the afflicted one has already did the “summoning”.

That is not what I am talking about. Every time someone utters a supplicatory or intercessory prayer (but NOT a meditative prayer) this person attempts to use God as a vending machine. And that is millions of prayers every day. The problem is that when I ask (not demand) God to manifest himself, the only objection from you (in general again) that I attempt to use God as a vending machine, and that is a major no-no.

If you never utter a supplicatory prayer, then I have no complaint. But if you EVER ask God to DO something, then you ATTEMPT to use God as a vending machine.

Asking someone for something does not make them a vending machine.

 

[Vera_Ljuba]

Asking someone for something does not make them a vending machine.

I certainly agree. The question is why did your apologist brethren accuse ME of treating God as a vending machine, when I asked why does God never manifest himself, when I ask him? I would appreciate it if you would correct THEM.

 

[Roseeurekacross]

Well, since the exorcist allegedly has the g to force that demon to leave, it is a reasonable assumption that he also has the power to summon. Especially since - according to you - the afflicted one has already did the “summoning”.###

You are in error. The Exorcist has no power except by God. So the Exorcist is praying, asking , if it be God’s Will, for the intercession of the Communion of Saints and to God, to kick evil butt.

###That is not what I am talking about. Every time someone utters a supplicatory or intercessory prayer (but NOT a meditative prayer) this person attempts to use God as a vending machine. And that is millions of prayers every day. The problem is that when I ask (not demand) God to manifest himself, the only objection from you (in general again) that I attempt to use God as a vending machine, and that is a major no-no. ###

Vera Ljuba
Many have gone before you, and many will go after you, who pray to God to manifest Himself.
The problem is…how many have enough faith and trust, to be still enough to await and recognise any answer?
I can ask for water in a desert all day long, but if I dont pick up a shovel and work to dig out the bore, it is my fault I died of thirst.

 

[jmcrae]

Vera Ljuba
Many have gone before you, and many will go after you, who pray to God to manifest Himself.
The problem is…how many have enough faith and trust, to be still enough to await and recognise any answer?
I can ask for water in a desert all day long, but if I dont pick up a shovel and work to dig out the bore, it is my fault I died of thirst.

Yes, exactly.

 

[Aloysium]

. . . how many have enough faith and trust, to be still enough to await and recognise any answer?
I can ask for water in a desert all day long, but if I dont pick up a shovel and work to dig out the bore, it is my fault I died of thirst.

Thanks.

:twocents:

Patience, faith and trust are virtues that accompany the love we are meant to become.

In the waiting, time passes, and we change. Hearing God’s call in the yearning that grows as He approaches, that fire consumes our willfulness, purifying us for the meeting. It’s for our own good actually, since when we meet, we will know ourselves as we truly are.

There is no point talking the talk but not walking the walk. It’s in loving our neighbour that we do God’s will and thereby enter into His kingdom.

1 Kings 19:11 The Lord said, “Go out and stand on the mountain in the presence of the Lord, for the Lord is about to pass by.”
Then a great and powerful wind tore the mountains apart and shattered the rocks before the Lord, but the Lord was not in the wind. After the wind there was an earthquake, but the Lord was not in the earthquake. 12 After the earthquake came a fire, but the Lord was not in the fire. And after the fire came a gentle whisper. 13 When Elijah heard it, he pulled his cloak over his face and went out and stood at the mouth of the cave.
Then a voice said to him, “What are you doing here, Elijah?”

We may not be prepared to hear.