Lapsed Catholics Explain Why They Leave the Church

[wynnejj]

Let’s look at some derived knowledge, based on the “Jesus is Lord” axiom, to which most of the world considers an outright lie… “The Pope is Infallible”.

When the Pope declares a Doctrine of the Church, then God’s revealed truth, as pronounced by the Pope and guided by the Holy Spirit, never fails to be true. This is different from saying the Pope is infallible in his personal behavior or offhand opinions. The point is that the Catholic Church is the Bureau of Standards and Measures of God’s Revealed Truth. How do we derive this knowledge…

Because “Jesus is Lord” and he instituted his new Church when he stated “Thou art Peter and upon this Rock, I will build my church, and the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it.” and again “Whatever you shall bind on earth will be bound in Heaven, whatever you shall loose on earth shall be loosed in Heaven”.

…

Now you are probably wondering at this point about where am I going with this discussion…

You are about to go through a process of Confirmation which is the gift of the Holy Spirit who is Wisdom. As you mature into adulthood, you will be exposed to highly intelligent and knowledgeable people, but do not confuse that with wisdom. Wisdom comes from the Holy Spirit and is your moral compass. It needs to be cultivated with Bible study, prayer and the practice of faith. Without a moral compass, highly intelligent and knowledgeable people are like super computers with large data stores running amok with bad programming.

As you go through life, you may hit points where you may question your faith. You may get to the point where you may want to leave the Church, and feel that your reasons are just. Like a marriage, there will be times when it is not going well. To weather the storm, often all that is needed is the conviction that you must stay the course (divorce is not an option).

But it really helps if you are confirmed and grounded in the axioms of your faith.

Hope this all makes sense…

Sincerely yours,
Your Uncle

 

[Cinette]

Excuse me?
I do not know you and vice versa,
There are many things to make all of us think,I will not enter upsets or point fingers.
Prayer is a main part of any Faith,but to whom?
Only one Living God for me

*Exactly! You keep your eye on God and ask for His guidance.

 

[Cinette]

There’s the story of a Catholic Frenchman, one of that very rational race, who told an American friend, also a Catholic, “I’ve lost my faith.” The American was surprised and asked, “are you going to another religion?” The Frenchman glared at his American friend and said, “I told you that I lost my faith, NOT my mind.”

Lovely story! Love it!

 

[Bible_is_truth]

*Exactly! You keep your eye on God and ask for His guidance.

So True

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

Thank you.

I suspect that the people you know who left the faith, did so for emotional reasons, or they did so because they just did not believe the truth–despite the abudant evidence, which is, imo, irrational.

Again, your opinion or suspicion, etc. You don’t know these people, so it must remain your opinion.

 

[CountrySinger]

Go tell that to the poster who was raped by a priest. How ignorant was she? Or those who were the victims of paederast priests?

You are speaking on a theological plane, many people, however, don’t. Your pious explanation won’t do for people hurt by the institutional Church IMO. They had reasons to leave, not excuses.

Thank you for your kind words.

When I left the Church, I was told I would go to Hell. But I have already been there thanks to an evil priest. I would try to go to Mass, but I am unable to get through a Mass without screaming. The Church is not a comfort. To me, it is a symbol of my innocence that was taken away. Someone who hasn’t been through it wouldn’t understand.

 

[irishpatrick]

Again, your opinion or suspicion, etc. You don’t know these people, so it must remain your opinion.

I agree, regarding any person I do not know, it is all opinion. Yet, my experience is not slim regarding people who have left the faith.

 

[Cinette]

Am I a Catholic? Good question! Why am I a Catholic? Better question.

This is a letter I wrote to a nephew (high math aptitude - atheist father - Catholic mother) to describe my beliefs.

Dear nephew,

Your mom told me that you are preparing for the sacrament of Confirmation, and that she has asked some folks, including myself, to write a witness letter as food for thought in your preparation. So here’s my attempt …
…
What was clear to me was that this individual was way more intelligent and knowledgeable than myself. What was also clear to me was that he presented some fascinating evidence and some logical argument. Yet, what was not clear to me was that he could be characterized as a man of wisdom. The Bible tells us that Wisdom begins with Fear of the Lord. This individual chose as his axiom that God does not exist. That our universe, which suggests a natural law and order to things, came about by chance and happenstance. It’s an axiom that I can’t accept.

…

Let’s look at another axiom that is questionable to most of the world, “Jesus is Lord”.

If you come from another culture, Jesus moral teachings may be compelling, but that is far from asserting that “Jesus is Lord” or that the stories of his miracles are true. How do we know that it is not legend? Without some way to verify the truth of these alleged supernatural events, when evangelizing to a non-believer, one is reduced to exclaiming “WELL!!! IT COULD HAPPEN!!!”.

How do we know whether or not society promotes religious beliefs to manipulate social behavior in a beneficial way with a myth of eternal reward or punishment, augmenting those areas of social behavior that cannot be properly enforced by the rule of law? After all, that has to be the explanation for all the other religions of the world, if they are truly just man-made creations. Why would one believe Christianity over any other religion?

To me, the objective sign that the Catholic Church is the one, true religion which has the blessing of the one, true God are the saints themselves. It is the rich history of miracles testified by people who asked a saint to ask God for some special favor and received a supernatural miracle. It seems that God grants favors through the intercession of saints to signify that that person is a saint and can be reliably emulated as a good role model reflecting the character of God, most especially in some particular aspect.

…

*Very good post but would be more effective with fewer words. Remember St Francis said “Preach the gospel always and, if necessary, use words”. When discoursing with youth it is best to give them bite sized morsels! Just my opinion.

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

Thank you for your kind words.

When I left the Church, I was told I would go to Hell. But I have already been there thanks to an evil priest. I would try to go to Mass, but I am unable to get through a Mass without screaming. The Church is not a comfort. To me, it is a symbol of my innocence that was taken away. Someone who hasn’t been through it wouldn’t understand.

Thank you for sharing your experiences with us. It ought to be a reminder to those who believe that no one has any legitimate reason (not excuse) to leave the Church. And, yours were hardly shallow “emotional” reasons. God bless you on your journey of faith.

 

[irishpatrick]

Thank you for your kind words.

When I left the Church, I was told I would go to Hell. But I have already been there thanks to an evil priest. I would try to go to Mass, but I am unable to get through a Mass without screaming. The Church is not a comfort. To me, it is a symbol of my innocence that was taken away. Someone who hasn’t been through it wouldn’t understand.

Whoever told you that you would go to hell did a terrible thing. No human can claim with any certainty than any other person will go to hell. The Church does not even tell individual people they will go to hell, it merely defines the parameters.

I am sincerely sorry someone in the Church said that to you–it was just wrong. I am certain God has mercy for people in your situation, a situation in which your pain is caused by someone in His Church, and it is a pain that has left such a painful and lasting mark.

This is the week in which the Church celebrates Divine Mercy–Catholics should be celebrating the depth of God’s Mercy as given from Christ to Saint Faustina.

This coming Sunday is Divine Mercy Sunday, during which God opens His mercy to all. Jesus once said this to Saint Faustina: “Even the most hardened sinner, if he recites this chaplet even once, will receive grace from My infinite Mercy.”

Since you find no comfort inside the Catholic Church, perhaps you can find comfort through the Lord and His words to Saint Faustina. If so, go here:

ewtn.com/devotionals/mercy/feast.htm

I pray the Lord blesses you with a peace-filled heart.

 

[irishpatrick]

Thank you for sharing your experiences with us. It ought to be a reminder to those who believe that no one has any legitimate reason (not excuse) to leave the Church. And, yours were hardly shallow “emotional” reasons. God bless you on your journey of faith.

This was seemingly aimed at my statements, and it is MOST unkind. I fully agreed there are legitimate emotional reasons, and I NEVER implied or used the word shallow. Some people have been actually harmed by people in the Church–I have agreed with that, and it is wrong to even remotely imply otherwise. I hope you will take back what you wrote here, because it does me a great dissservice.

These situations is the very reason I chose to not post on CA during Lent. Perhaps I should make that a permanent move. I have no patience with such tactics.

Take care and God Bless.

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

This was seemingly aimed at me statements, and it is MOST unkind. I fully agreed there are legitimate emotional reasons, and I NEVER implied or use the word shallow. Some people have been actually harmed by people in the Church–I have agreed with that, and it is wrong to even remotely imply otherwise. I hope you will take back what you wrote here, because it does my a great dissservice.

It was not at all directed at you personally. There are many Catholics, including clergymen, who do believe that there are no legitimate rational reasons to leave the Church. I agree with you that there are those who have been harmed by Church representatives and some, indeed many, who have had emotional reasons, or excuses, to leave.

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

Hi as a Non Conformist Christian i.e I will not be labelled a specific Faith as for me there is Only one God and Jesus ,the way the truth ,the life,
People must read and understand the word of God,many Faiths I have come across are either Cults or Man’s Dictatorship. I am at present looking into the Catholic Faith to learn for myself ,I have many views now, In my Bible it says that no-one is without Sin ,this means Mary to.
Blessings to you.

Sacred Scripture also says that Mary is “full of grace”. How can one be full of grace and sinful at the same time? If you have sin, you cannot be “full” of grace, because if you are “full” of grace, there is no room left for sin.

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

There’s the story of a Catholic Frenchman, one of that very rational race, who told an American friend, also a Catholic, “I’ve lost my faith.” The American was surprised and asked, “are you going to another religion?” The Frenchman glared at his American friend and said, “I told you that I lost my faith, NOT my mind.”

So…what are you saying about Catholic Frenchmen?

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

So…what are you saying about Catholic Frenchmen?

Just what I said.

 

[CMatt25]

Sorry, but that doesn’t fly with me. There’s a line that cannot be crossed when folks are at Mass. It’s called respect. I’m no friend of Obama, but you can be sure that even for that man, I’d wear a suit if he invited me to a meeting.

Obama doesn’t count? Okay. If I were to have a meeting with Timothy Cardinal Dolan, I’d not show up in cut-offs, a wifebeater, and shower clogs.

I think that “God loves me no matter how I dress” is nothing but oompah, and you can take that to the bank.

No need to be sorry Rich. It’s not a problem for me if we disagree on whether or not “God loves me no matter how I dress” or whether or not it’s “oompah” that I can take “to the bank”. We disagree on other things as well and on some things we agree.

 

[CMatt25]

You won’t get into the Vatican in shorts.

Brian, I don’t anticipate ever being at the Vatican so their dress code isn’t really an issue for me. But if I were and they refused me entry, then that would be their policy.

 

[irishpatrick]

It was not at all directed at you personally. There are many Catholics, including clergymen, who do believe that there are no legitimate rational reasons to leave the Church. I agree with you that there are those who have been harmed by Church representatives and some, indeed many, who have had emotional reasons, or excuses, to leave.

The point is, you did twist the meaning of my posts. It might not have all been directed to me, but the timing was no mere coincidence. It is these sorts of things that lead me to not want to post here. The bending and twisting of another person’s statements happens all the time here, and imo it just does not belong on a Catholic forum. If you go back and read my responses, you will find that I agree that painful experiences can cause some to leave the Church. Yet, my agreement with you was not enough to stop you from bending my messages into something they were not. Bending and twisting other posters messages seems like an ingrained tactic here, it happens all the time here, and it frankly sickens me. I think for many here (I have no idea if this applies to you), the winning of arguments is often more important, than actually getting to the truth.

So, I think I have to pray about leaving CA for good, because it seems to me that many people here thrive on such tension-filled conversations. It just ain’t for me, at least not anymore. I just do not feel that there is much I can contribute in such a hostile environment, in which so many people are just out to argue.

God Bless.

 

[wynnejj]

Sacred Scripture also says that Mary is “full of grace”. How can one be full of grace and sinful at the same time? If you have sin, you cannot be “full” of grace, because if you are “full” of grace, there is no room left for sin.

This assertion caught my interest. I see where the angel Gabriel asserts that Mary is “highly favored”. I see where Elizabeth says “Blessed are you among women”. Nowhere do I see a scriptural reference that describes Mary as “full of grace”. We say the Hail Mary, but the prayer has elements that are scriptural and elements that are professions of faith based on oral tradition.

 

[CMatt25]

Except that it was you who focused on it; so apparently it is very “important” to you. You drew a strained relationship between outreach and attire, which makes it appear that you associate casual clothing with superior charity (and/or more pure intentions); more formal clothing with inferior charity (or more suspect, less pure intentions). They are not related. There is no reason to bring up clothing, and you brought it up – no one else.

Actually Elizabeth it appears based on the response rather more important to others what someone else wears that it does to me.