Lapsed Catholics Explain Why They Leave the Church

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How conveenient!!
Makes it pretty simple when you begin to compare what you would do with the “love God” part.

Thinking about beating your wife? Does that demonstrate love for God?
Thinking about skipping Mass this week? Are you showing your love of God that way?
Want to watch a little porn when no-one is looking? What would God think while He’s sitting there watching it with you?
 
Makes it pretty simple when you begin to compare what you would do with the “love God” part.

Thinking about beating your wife? Does that demonstrate love for God?
Thinking about skipping Mass this week? Are you showing your love of God that way?
Want to watch a little porn when no-one is looking? What would God think while He’s sitting there watching it with you?
NOT how I read it. I still love God even when I sin, but I need to get forgiveness for those sins.
 
I still love God even when I sin, but I need to get forgiveness for those sins.
And the ordinary and usual place to receive that forgiveness is through the Sacrament of Penance, not outside of it on the margins somewhere, experimenting with other churches, with general “spirituality.” (I’m speaking to others, not necessarily to you.) That font of grace gives us the strength to return to a compromised clergy and a fallen people, and use the institution’s resources to build on that sacramental grace, and to take responsibility for our part in the renewal of the Church. God is not going to do so without us.

There’s way, way too much of a passive understanding of the individual’s role in the Church, on this thread.
 
And the ordinary and usual place to receive that forgiveness is through the Sacrament of Penance, not outside of it on the margins somewhere, experimenting with other churches, with general “spirituality.” (I’m speaking to others, not necessarily to you.)
Not necessarily to me? But, perhaps to me? What do you know of what kind of a Catholic I am? :mad:
 
People would NOT leave the Church if they truly understood what they were thinking of leaving.

This is well documented in John chapter six, during which Jesus gives us the “Bread of Life” discourse. Jesus made extraordinary statements in that discourse, all of which are 100% true, yet many people left because they could accept the truth–they walk away from the very thing they want the most. Had they allowed the truth to sink in, they would never have left the Lord.
 
People would NOT leave the Church if they truly understood what they were thinking of leaving.

This is well documented in John chapter six, during which Jesus gives us the “Bread of Life” discourse. Jesus made extraordinary statements in that discourse, all of which are 100% true, yet many people left because they could accept the truth–they walk away from the very thing they want the most. Had they allowed the truth to sink in, they would never have left the Lord.
Jesus: Will you leave Me also?

Peter: To whom shall we go?

Rather sums it all up.
 
Jesus: Will you leave Me also?

Peter: To whom shall we go?

Rather sums it all up.
Exactly. Peter did not understand fully, yet he knew who Jesus is/was. Peter was wise enough to know that there was nowhere else to go because Jesus holds the Word of Life.
 
This statement has nothing to do with your earlier statement, that implied that people have left Catholicism because the commandments are supposedly not enumerated. Now you’re conveniently shifting to an entirely different argument: that the sacraments don’t “work,” No, individuals receive unworthily and/or do not avail themselves of the grace of the sacraments. Anyone who thinks that sacramental graces work automatically or “magically” has a very immature understanding of sacramental theology. Again, that is their fault, not the fault of the Church.
Your synopsis of my earlier post shows that you are unwilling to comment beyond the 1st line of that post. The post speaks to receiving the Holy Eucharist more than just unworthily, but more to the sacrilegious nature. It is profanity against God. It is an attitude that one can get something for free, making it akin to the “once saved, always saved” mentality. Your sacramental evangelization says basically “read the manual, it’s your problem”. Your evangelization style accepts no responsibility as a priestly people to expound on, let alone enumerate, the required price for the reception of the Holy Eucharist. That is what I mean when I refer to evangelization of the Holy Eucharist as “selling out” the sacramental nature of the Holy Eucharist.
 
Fundamentally, people leave because they look at results. If you see priests receive the Holy Eucharist daily, and there is a widespread scandal perpetrated and covered-up by priests & bishops, then one fundamentally wonders about the efficacy of the Holy Eucharist. If you see 100% of congregation go to the Holy Eucharist every Sunday and know that the parishioners publicly denounce or flout the church’s stance on contraception, sterilization and even co-habitation, then one wonders about the efficacy of the Holy Eucharist. You can “sell” the Holy Eucharist all you want, but if there is a Sunday Mass media bias that only proclaims the convenient truths of the Gospel, you “sell out” the Holy Eucharist. You have to explain why the Holy Eucharist is not working, if you want to stem the tide of lapsed Catholics.
So true. As bad as the numbers are, can you imagine what the U.S. Catholic Mass attendance numbers would be like if they remove the Sunday obligation and communion?
 
So true. As bad as the numbers are, can you imagine what the U.S. Catholic Mass attendance numbers would be like if they remove the Sunday obligation and communion?
Probably like Spain, France, and Italy.

Poland, however, is a bright spot. 🙂
 
*I do not understand your sentence especially the part where you state “to question the fruits by which to know by.” Can you explain please?

:)*
Matt7:15 Be on your guard against false prophets; they come to you looking like sheep on the outside, but on the inside they are really like wild wolves.16 You will know them by what they do. Thorn bushes do not bear grapes, and briers do not bear figs.17 A healthy tree bears good fruit, but a poor tree bears bad fruit.18 A healthy tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a poor tree cannot bear good fruit.19 And any tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown in the fire. 20 So then, you will know the false prophets by what they do. (GNT)
 
The Church does not say where any specific individual goes because they don’t have a window into his/her soul.

Ishii
Ishii, if a specific individual named John Doe knew but did not remain after experiencing a change in belief, he could not be saved according to CCC. And “could not” is a tense of “can not”. 🤷 Now sure I’ll grant you that no one knows whether John will have returned even if just at the moment before taking his last breath. But otherwise the Church does appear to be saying to me John will go to hell. :confused:
 
yes maybe explain this one as well hard to grasp what your saying particularly in the highlighted line
What you highlighted: “The bishops are all men who are believed to be the successors of the Apostles. Priests who are entrusted to shepherd their flocks are all men. So I’m not clear how you can be in the Church and as part of the practice of your faith, not have a relationship with man along with God.”

Your bishop is believed to be an Apostolic successor. Many Catholics I presume entrust their priest to shepherd them. So you have a relationship with them.
 
But we ARE the body of Christ…and some people have been deeply wounded by those amongst us…I don’t think we can deny that. There are those that were wounded…have questions and some of us (the Body) act like this indicates lack of faith.

Yes the sacraments are foremost but to say that people just need to ignore all the other…is short sighted…some of us were deeply wounded by the other. And as long as we never acknowledge that…I don’t see hope of bringing siblings home.🤷
Exactly. And I don’t even think it necessarily matters how well catechized, people can still later have their faith shaken and wounded. God bless you and peace.
 
Their faith has changed, and they understand God differently than they did before as Catholics.

LOL! Those people were products of the same Catholic training I was -** by the best in the business** - the Jesuits on the high school and university level.
Here’s something we agree on Rich. 👍
 
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