Lapsed Catholics Explain Why They Leave the Church

[St_Francis]

If that’s what the archbishop is saying, my contention is it might be better if instead of urging them to leave the Church, he could urge them to at least attend Mass more frequently for example. But not ever urging them to completely leave. I know the Eucharist is the focus in the Catholic Mass. But aren’t there any other benefits for people attending Mass? You (generic “you” not anyone specifically) can urge them to leave for a purer Church and “you” might get your wish. But then wouldn’t “you” share some guilt by pushing people even further away than they might have been?

We aren’t actually doing that so as to have a purer Church.

It’s kind of like a college. There are some students who are there to learn, to participate, the be involved in what the school is all about.

Then there are other students who just want to live off their parents’ hard-earned dimes, goof off, party, meet girls…

We have to deal with people with love, but sometimes that has to be tough love.

Look at the scandal. The scandal was in large part caused by the cover-up, the transferring of crime-committing! priests. And yet a lot of the decisions which ended up being the transferring and covering=up started off just like what you are saying, that the bishops looked at the men involved and wanted to help them to give them a second chance, wanted to be nice to them, wanted to encourage them. And look at what ended up happening.

The problem is that when you mete out mercy, the person has to actually *be *repentant, otherwise it’s not mercy at all but a salve to one’s own self.

The Cardinal is right. There are people who need to examine *why *they want a Catholic wedding after years of not attending Mass or even praying. Now all of a sudden they want a Catholic wedding? The CArdinal is saying, why do you want a Catholic wedding–is it because you really want God in your life, in your marriage? Or is it because your mother would kill you if you married at a Justice of the peace’s instead? Or because you like the idea of a beautiful wedding? And if you want God in your life, *then put Him in your life! *And if you don’t want God in your life, then don’t come to the church wanting a false wedding, don’t come to the church and take Christ into your sinful unrepentant self because it looks good or your whole family is going.

The Cardinal is saying, be real; be true to the self you actually are. If you don’t care about God, don’t ask us to falsify a Catholic wedding for you. If you do care about God, then start going to Mass, start saying your prayers, start acting like you care about God.

 

[CMatt25]

I agree. Additionally, when people say personal things happened to them that made them leave, I don’t think others really understand all the things that could mean. I had a few really terrible teachers in Catholic school pre-k through 11th. I mean, when you’re a kid nobody really wants to listen to their teachers, but it was beyond that for me…a lot of what 5 teachers in particular did to me (and select few other kids in my classes) would be considered verbal and emotional abuse under the law, but at the time we didn’t know to report it. Instead of trying to change it, I changed.

I always said I’d never go back to Christianity, and especially not to Catholicism because Catholics made me feel hatred and turned me into a monster. But then I realized my mistake…I’d let one group of 30 or so people ruin my faith and compromise who I was. I was constantly angry with God (like it was His fault)… I did a lot of things to try to hurt Him, got destructive, constantly made fun of Catholics and dared them to do anything about it, and I guess what you would call “blasphemed” about a thousand more times than what was forgivable. I took my whole relationship with God and intentionally ripped it into shreds, and it felt good, and then I realized, wow, it’s not them doing this to me, this is me acting on my own impulses…where did they come from?

I knew it wasn’t right to be doing all that stuff but it made me feel good, I think because a lot of it was out of revenge. I got away from it for a while, felt empty for years like there was something I started and hadn’t finished, or something I’d been keeping secret and never dealt with… I was afraid to admit to anyone how short-sighted I’d been, I didn’t want to give them the wrong impression… I couldn’t go back to church right away so I went back to my priest and he suggested I help with the youth ministry class and stay out of mass for a while, which is what I’ve been doing the last few months, but the first few weeks I was back my priest had to tell me to take a breath and stop shaking. It had been so liberating and exciting to not only walk away from God but to actually do things to hurt Him, I looked back on my path of complete destruction and just felt dead inside, there was nothing I could do to take it back. I realized the Catholics in my life didn’t do this. I’d ruined everything, and it was all my fault.

It’s been just over a year since I’ve been back. It took a lot of work to let go of everything and start over. I want God to be able to trust me again and have the same faith in me that I have in Him. I know people roll their eyes when they think of people who have left the church, thinking it’s for some political or self-righteous reason, but I think most people have a legitimate reason at some time or another. I know I’ll always get a lot of judgment for what I did, but maybe it was meant to happen to me, maybe I had to leave for a few years and go through the worst so I could make a decision about where I needed to be.

In Training, thank you for sharing your story and God bless you along your journey. Peace.

 

[St_Francis]

…Here’s the thing though. “You” (again not anyone specifically) I think takes a risk of perhaps doing irreparable harm when they want to push people completely out the door. And if they take the advice and should forever leave as a result, one never will know otherwise if perhaps these folks would have not only stayed but more fully embraced the faith at some point. If they’re further driven away though from the Church and they stay away for good as a result, it could be too late.

At some point, the responsibility falls on the person himself. These people, the ones I’m talking about, aren’t being pushed out the door because they aren’t *in *the door. They are off doing their own thing, thinking about church only when it’s convenient.

The irreparable damage… first, it’s not irreparable. God can fix anything, if the person will let Him.

Second, this damage you speak of, do you remember what it says about those who partake of the Eucharist without discerning the Body of Our Lord Who died for us on the cross? Do you think we do people a *kindness *when we allow them to “eat and drink judgement onto themselves”? They are imperiling their immortal souls, and we should just la-di-da let them keep on doing so without challenging them as to what they are doing?

 

[CMatt25]

We aren’t actually doing that so as to have a purer Church.

Look at the scandal. The scandal was in large part caused by the cover-up, the transferring of crime-committing! priests. And yet a lot of the decisions which ended up being the transferring and covering=up started off just like what you are saying, that the bishops looked at the men involved and wanted to help them to give them a second chance, wanted to be nice to them, wanted to encourage them. And look at what ended up happening.

I just remember something about someone at one time using the words “purer Church” in some sense. Not anyone here that I’m aware of.

I’m not going to even go there comparing Apostolic successors and any potential fruits of transferring priests who molested children with the sinning of laity. Peace.

 

[CMatt25]

this damage you speak of, do you remember what it says about those who partake of the Eucharist without discerning the Body of Our Lord Who died for us on the cross? Do you think we do people a *kindness *when we allow them to “eat and drink judgement onto themselves”? They are imperiling their immortal souls, and we should just la-di-da let them keep on doing so without challenging them as to what they are doing?

Yes I remember Catholic teaching on this. Did you remember I said I’d suggest urging them in the meantime for instance to attend Mass more frequently for any other graces they possibly could receive instead of urging them to leave? But irregardless of our differing opinions on this, I wish you and all peace.

 

[wynnejj]

If that’s what the archbishop is saying, my contention is it might be better if instead of urging them to leave the Church, he could urge them to at least attend Mass more frequently for example. But not ever urging them to completely leave. I know the Eucharist is the focus in the Catholic Mass. But aren’t there any other benefits for people attending Mass? You (generic “you” not anyone specifically) can urge them to leave for a purer Church and “you” might get your wish. But then wouldn’t “you” share some guilt by pushing people even further away than they might have been?

I’m actually not too far off from where you’re at. After all, we are a house of prayer for all, but not a den of thieves. I don’t think that if a person is playing false, and you call that person on it, that such an act does any damage. I don’t think the Archbishop was really concerned about non-believers in attendance at sacramental events, just those that take the sacraments like they are an empty ritual. The archbishop telling non-believers to have the maturity to leave the faith doesn’t seem any different than Our Lord telling a person to cut off their hand if it is the occasion of sin that could lead to Hell. And, Our Lord did instruct his apostles to preach the Gospel, and if they refuse to accept it, then shake the dust off your sandals - suggesting leaving them in the dust and not looking back. Peace.

 

[CMatt25]

I’m actually not too far off from where you’re at. After all, we are a house of prayer for all, but not a den of thieves. I don’t think that if a person is playing false, and you call that person on it, that such an act does any damage. I don’t think the Archbishop was really concerned about non-believers in attendance at sacramental events, just those that take the sacraments like they are an empty ritual. The archbishop telling non-believers to have the maturity to leave the faith doesn’t seem any different than Our Lord telling a person to cut off their hand if it is the occasion of sin that could lead to Hell. And, Our Lord did instruct his apostles to preach the Gospel, and if they refuse to accept it, then shake the dust off your sandals - suggesting leaving them in the dust and not looking back. Peace.

Yes but do you know anyone who has ever cut off his hand in sin? I don’t.

 

[LilyM]

Yes but do you know anyone who has ever cut off his hand in sin? I don’t.

Origen castrated himself based on a literal understanding of that passage of scripture. Probably not the only one to do so, I’d wager.

Not that the Church condones such behaviour, nor do I personally.

 

[Tampa_Dave]

I was a “lapsed Catholic” or “Catholic In Name Only” for nearly three decades. When asked about my religious beliefs in polite conversation, I always replied I’m “Catholic”. But was I really? In my later parochial school days, I began to glance at my watch often during Mass then left before the Final Blessing. Going to Mass evolved into just another Sunday activity. During my college and law school years, I stopped attending Mass completely. I was married in the Church, but I did not regularly attend Mass or receive the Eucharist. I showed up at St. Mary’s on Christmas and Easter.

Things changed immediately upon my return to the Church. I truly appreciate the beauty of the Mass as it leads to Holy Communion: I recite the prayers, sing the hymns, observe the rituals, genuflect properly, and listen to the Homily with 100% attention. I enjoy each moment of Holy Mass. And when I exit the Church, I feel really, really good. My renewed faith has changed my daily conduct and outlook on life. I am calmer and more deliberate in my actions. I actually ask myself what Christ would say or do in many situations, often responding in ways I never would have guessed. Being Catholic is an honor, a privilege, a true blessing. I thank God daily for leading me back to the Church through His Grace.

 

[wynnejj]

Yes but do you know anyone who has ever cut off his hand in sin? I don’t.

The sense of the passage is that one must take the sin seriously, despite behavior that indicates that the person considers the sin no big deal, maybe not even a sin. It does not really want you to cut off your hand, nor does the Archbishop really want individuals to leave the Church. Yet both have the very real sense that such a measure may be literally necessary to have one come back to their senses with an understanding of the seriousness of their offences.

 

[white_sheep]

Better music… hahaha. I’d bet real money that their taste in music is terrible (i.e. Justin Timberlake, Katy Perry, Brittany Spears, etc.).

Really. If you go to a church, any church, primarily for the music, you need a lobotomy.

Put me on the list for a lobotomy. I’ve skipped mass more than once because the only church I could get to has the sappy 70’s folk music in it like most parishes do these days. I admit that I refer to it as suffering through mass at most parishes.

The sappy effeminate music we usually have to deal with is stomach wrenching. Ever see men singing along? Of course not. At least not many. Maybe some girlie-men. At the parish with Gregorian Chant most of the men sing along.

 

[CatholicBoy1957]

Put me on the list for a lobotomy. I’ve skipped mass more than once because the only church I could get to has the sappy 70’s folk music in it like most parishes do these days. I admit that I refer to it as suffering through mass at most parishes.

The sappy effeminate music we usually have to deal with is stomach wrenching. Ever see men singing along? Of course not. At least not many. Maybe some girlie-men. At the parish with Gregorian Chant most of the men sing along.

Have you seen this thread?

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=6014

Intriguing. A search of this forum, with the right terms, will yield many more similar results.

 

[white_sheep]

Have you seen this thread?

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=6014

Intriguing. A search of this forum, with the right terms, will yield many more similar results.

I’m sure it will. I guess if I’d rather we rely on the thousands of years of Catholic music and masses instead of a sappy Mass of Creation composed by a Protestant that I need a lobotomy. Well, excuuuuuse me for wanting to be Catholic.

 

[wynnejj]

Have you seen this thread?

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=6014

Intriguing. A search of this forum, with the right terms, will yield many more similar results.

Thanks for the reference. I couldn’t understand where the reference to “sappy effeminate music” was coming from. Now I understand. My usual complaints, which I strive hard to keep to myself, are usually about “organ grinders” - the organist who drags a piece excruciatingly slow where it is nigh impossible to sing to. Yet, God love them, I can hardly wait to hear them in heaven when they get rewarded with a special talent for all their hard work.

 

[CMatt25]

Origen castrated himself based on a literal understanding of that passage of scripture. Probably not the only one to do so, I’d wager.

Not that the Church condones such behaviour, nor do I personally.

How long ago was that? I’m taking it you know of him but didn’t personally know him. :yup:

 

[CMatt25]

Put me on the list for a lobotomy. I’ve skipped mass more than once because the only church I could get to has the sappy 70’s folk music in it like most parishes do these days. I admit that I refer to it as suffering through mass at most parishes.

The sappy effeminate music we usually have to deal with is stomach wrenching. Ever see men singing along? Of course not. At least not many. Maybe some girlie-men. At the parish with Gregorian Chant most of the men sing along.

Both homilies and music are very important to me in meeting my spiritual needs at a church. I must though be among the girlie-men because I long for some folk. Have attended 4 different Catholic churches in my area and none of them have it. One of them has a monthly teen Mass unless that one does but I’ve not attended it. Keyboard at one parish is the closest thing I’ve come so far to music that inspires me. Maybe the teen Mass would if it has some upbeat music. But a Gregorian chant I never sing.

 

[Tigg]

Put me on the list for a lobotomy. I’ve skipped mass more than once because the only church I could get to has the sappy 70’s folk music in it like most parishes do these days. I admit that I refer to it as suffering through mass at most parishes.

The sappy effeminate music we usually have to deal with is stomach wrenching. Ever see men singing along? Of course not. At least not many. Maybe some girlie-men. At the parish with Gregorian Chant most of the men sing along.

I would never miss Mass because of the music, but I sympathize with your pain. On occasion, it is the greatest penance I can bear. Whatever are they thinking with these bland folksy tunes, often times theologically incorrect, sung off key and way too loudly that interrupts our interior communication with our Lord?

 

[Tigg]

I was a “lapsed Catholic” or “Catholic In Name Only” for nearly three decades. When asked about my religious beliefs in polite conversation, I always replied I’m “Catholic”. But was I really? In my later parochial school days, I began to glance at my watch often during Mass then left before the Final Blessing. Going to Mass evolved into just another Sunday activity. During my college and law school years, I stopped attending Mass completely. I was married in the Church, but I did not regularly attend Mass or receive the Eucharist. I showed up at St. Mary’s on Christmas and Easter.

Things changed immediately upon my return to the Church. I truly appreciate the beauty of the Mass as it leads to Holy Communion: I recite the prayers, sing the hymns, observe the rituals, genuflect properly, and listen to the Homily with 100% attention. I enjoy each moment of Holy Mass. And when I exit the Church, I feel really, really good. My renewed faith has changed my daily conduct and outlook on life. I am calmer and more deliberate in my actions. I actually ask myself what Christ would say or do in many situations, often responding in ways I never would have guessed. Being Catholic is an honor, a privilege, a true blessing. I thank God daily for leading me back to the Church through His Grace.

A wonderful conversion experience. Was there something “specific” you’d like to share - a moment when it all turned around for you, or a gradual enlightenment through grace? When you say, “Things changed immediately upon my return to the Church,” I believe this an important point. Through your will and deliberate action you cooperated with God’s plan - you submitted your being in humility to something larger than yourself and God will never be outdone. All praise and all thanksgiving to Him for what He has done in your life.

 

[white_sheep]

Thanks for the reference. I couldn’t understand where the reference to “sappy effeminate music” was coming from. Now I understand. My usual complaints, which I strive hard to keep to myself, are usually about “organ grinders” - the organist who drags a piece excruciatingly slow where it is nigh impossible to sing to. Yet, God love them, I can hardly wait to hear them in heaven when they get rewarded with a special talent for all their hard work.

Most of the songs chosen from the Gather hymnal are sappy effeminate songs, and in the style of 70’s folk music.

I don’t know a single man who listens to that kind of music by choice, on his own musical device, when he is given an option.

If we are going to have Protestants writing our masses and composing our music, maybe we could borrow other ideas from them too. I’ve noticed that most of them around here tend to have a contemporary service and a traditional service and sometimes, if they are big enough to have three services, a blended service as well. Considering that the average Catholic parish around here has 5-8 services on the weekend, couldn’t we have a couple of those be traditional? Why does it have to be 100% contemporary?

 

[CMatt25]

Most of the songs chosen from the Gather hymnal are sappy effeminate songs, and in the style of 70’s folk music.

I don’t know a single man who listens to that kind of music by choice, on his own musical device, when he is given an option.

If we are going to have Protestants writing our masses and composing our music, maybe we could borrow other ideas from them too. I’ve noticed that most of them around here tend to have a contemporary service and a traditional service and sometimes, if they are big enough to have three services, a blended service as well. Considering that the average Catholic parish around here has 5-8 services on the weekend, couldn’t we have a couple of those be traditional? Why does it have to be 100% contemporary?

Back in the day I’d listen to Peter, Paul and Mary on my 33 rpm records or were they 45’s? Oh no matter my stereo turntable device played both if I’m not mistaken. Several catchy folk tunes: “If I Had a Hammer” etc. “Leaving on a Jet Plane” was their biggest hit.

I have no idea where you are but here I haven’t found a contemporary Catholic Mass beyond maybe a Lifeteen and haven’t attended one of those. Episcopal, yes I can find very traditional, contemporary Christian band, at one Episcopal parish the bass player played for Stevie Wonder for a decade I am told. The same Episcopal church has a guitar Mass. They have 4 services. Another Episcopal has 2 traditionals and a jazz. Disciples of Christ has a blended. United Church of Christ has 1 traditional and 1 contenmporary. UMC has both. Something for everyone’s musical spiritual needs.