Lapsed Catholics Explain Why They Leave the Church

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BenedictFTW said:
Saint Ignatius of Antioch, Origen, Pope Saint Clement - dissenters? I think not!!! But they would not agree with you.
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The real question is “do they agree with Church teaching?” None of those are infallible and I put my trust in what the Church teaches in its Catechism, not in the opinions of those men.
 
BenedictFTW said:
You show no respect for the dead Fr Feeney, whom, for all you know is a saint in Heaven.
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For all I know? I know for a dead certainty that he hasn’t been canonized, so none of us on earth has any idea where Feeney is spending eternity.
You also show disregard for the Church Fathers.
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They aren’t infallible.
God bless. Someone will pray for you.
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Not you though, going by your remark. But, take heart. I shall pray for your enlightenment. 🙂
 
Elizabeth502 said:
Again, reread my post: I never said that. In fact, I said specifically in one of the first paragraphs that offensive behavior affects many others as well.
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I never claimed you did. I was giving my grandmother as an example of exactly what you stated in the portion of your post that I quoted.

My apologies for responding.
 
Rich_Olszewski said:
Had that happened to my Polish grandmother (which it didn’t BTW) my always-ready-for-a-fight grandfather would have beaten the bejesus out of that priest when he would have gotten hold of him. 😉
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I suspect (although I was never told this) that Grandma may have had to hold back Grandpa and their three sons. As I said, Daddy was left with a very poor opinion of the Church.
 
Everyone in heaven is a saint whether or not they were canonised. Just because you do not know they are saints, does not mean they are not saints.

Fr Feeney, please pray for this man’s enlightenment and good judgement. Saints preserve us from those who disregard the traditions of our Church or the teachings of the Church Fathers, which goes to make up the Magisterium.

God bless.
 
agnes_therese said:
I suspect (although I was never told this) that Grandma may have had to hold back Grandpa and their three sons. As I said, Daddy was left with a very poor opinion of the Church.
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The whole two-thousand-year-old Church with all of its saints, as well, of course, with Jesus as its Head, were held responsible for the actions of one man. Clever!!!
 
BenedictFTW said:
Everyone in heaven is a saint whether or not they were canonised. Just because you do not know they are saints, does not mean they are not saints.
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The burden of proof is on those saying that specific people are in heaven. Your statement is equally valid in opining that Feeney is in Hell.
Fr Feeney, please pray for this man’s enlightenment and good judgement. Saints preserve us from those who disregard the traditions of our Church or the teachings of the Church Fathers, which goes to make up the Magisterium.
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Whoops. You’d better look up what makes up the Magisterium - and it isn’t the opinions of some Church Fathers. The Magisterium is the teaching authority of the Church. This authority is understood to be embodied in the episcopacy, which is the aggregation of the current bishops of the Church in union with the Pope, led by the Bishop of Rome (the Pope), who has authority over the bishops, individually and as a body, as well as over each and every Catholic directly.
 
Rich_Olszewski said:
The burden of proof is on those saying that specific people are in heaven. Your statement is equally valid in opining that Feeney is in Hell.

Whoops. You’d better look up what makes up the Magisterium - and it isn’t the opinions of some Church Fathers. The Magisterium is the teaching authority of the Church. This authority is understood to be embodied in the episcopacy, which is the aggregation of the current bishops of the Church in union with the Pope, led by the Bishop of Rome (the Pope), who has authority over the bishops, individually and as a body, as well as over each and every Catholic directly.
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Whoops again! Slippery slope this! What goes to inform our wonderful Church leaders? For instance, whose teachings do you think our wonderful Pope Benedict espouses? St Augustine, St Ignatius of Antioch etc, etc, etc. Read some of his writings. Our Church Leaders do not reinvent the wheel. They learn from the teachings of the Church Fathers and have even been known to quote them in the writings of our modern Church - ie the Magisterium!!!
 
BenedictFTW said:
Whoops again! Slippery slope this! What goes to inform our wonderful Church leaders? For instance, whose teachings do you think our wonderful Pope Benedict espouses? St Augustine, St Ignatius of Antioch etc, etc, etc. Read some of his writings. Our Church Leaders do not reinvent the wheel. They learn from the teachings of the Church Fathers.
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Church doctrine isn’t a rehash of some saint’s opinions. Some of what they said is quite valid, some is no more than their opinions.

BTW, did you read what the article I linked to said? You made no mention of what it said.
 
BenedictFTW said:
The whole two-thousand-year-old Church with all of its saints, as well, of course, with Jesus as its Head, were held responsible for the actions of one man. Clever!!!
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Thank you for insulting my grandfather, father and uncles for being upset over their wife and mother being publicly embarassed. Very Christian of you.
 
agnes_therese said:
I never claimed you did. I was giving my grandmother as an example of exactly what you stated in the portion of your post that I quoted.

My apologies for responding.
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I don’t think sarcasm helps the discussion. Quite frankly, you’re response was unclear. It hardly seemed to be agreeing with any portion of what I said.

And again I see that Rich has taken the opportunity to post a childish response, so once again it’s time for me to leave a thread that seems to be overpopulated with people bent on Departure Triumphalism as opposed to constructive discussion.

I think I’ve been generous and constructive with my attempts on this thread. I have not condemned anyone, but if this above, and the “cute” agreements with it, are indicative of the kind of attitude that supports the departure of the faithful, then I begin to question the sincerity and maturity of some of those departures.
 
Elizabeth502 said:
And again I see that Rich has taken the opportunity to post a childish response, so once again it’s time for me to leave a thread that seems to be overpopulated with people bent on Departure Triumphalism as opposed to constructive discussion.
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By your lights, Elizabeth. But, have it your way.
I think I’ve been generous and constructive with my attempts on this thread.
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Oh, please. Leave Lady Bountiful be.
 
I come home from working a few hours today, and what do I read about, but Fr. Feeney. That the order he established has just been reunited with Rome as of 2010 I think goes to show where Feeney’s position probably stood with the Church.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feeneyism

I had the misfortune of attending one of their weekend conferences in 1997, basically out of curiosity. I was talked into it by a local priest that is a fan of Feeney, and that same priest is the one who talked me into committing the biggest sin in my life.

So, not a happy way to end my day.
 
Elizabeth502 said:
I think I’ve been generous and constructive with my attempts on this thread. I have not condemned anyone, but if this above, and the “cute” agreements with it, are indicative of the kind of attitude that supports the departure of the faithful, then I begin to question the sincerity and maturity of some of those departures.
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Hmm. Slapping down those who supported your position is “generous and constructive”?

We’re obviously using different dictionaries.
 
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