Lapsed Catholics Explain Why They Leave the Church

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I think that more money and time could be spent on helping the poor, with fewer resources going to church upkeep and the like. Instead of spending time going to mass, what if people instead spent an hour every week volunteering at a soup kitchen or in some way helping another? In my mind, a loving higher power would be more pleased (or just as pleased) with someone working hard to ease another’s pain.

My overall moral philosophy is to try to never hurt others on purpose and to help others when I can. .
I don’t want to be uncharitable to you…but why would that be an either or type of thing for time at Mass? Actually I go every day to Mass…I go to worship God and it is by spending that time with Him that I am filled to want to do things for others. But without that time I become a lot more selfish. Just a thought?

The other comment…on wanting not to hurt other on purpose…can you not see that this is a pro-life stance? What is more of a deliberate hurt then killing a baby in the womb? (all politics aside).
 
I don’t want to be uncharitable to you…but why would that be an either or type of thing for time at Mass? Actually I go every day to Mass…I go to worship God and it is by spending that time with Him that I am filled to want to do things for others. But without that time I become a lot more selfish. Just a thought?

The other comment…on wanting not to hurt other on purpose…can you not see that this is a pro-life stance? What is more of a deliberate hurt then killing a baby in the womb? (all politics aside).
My dad goes to mass everyday. He’s a good guy. I don’t think it’s an either or type of thing, I just don’t think that you need to go to be a good person.

I didn’t say that I was or wasn’t pro-life. I said that I didn’t like how much I think people take on ideals of the GOP because they happen to be the pro-life party.
 
Okay, I will try to explain this as best as I can.

I’m not trying to put down the religious, as I know many good Catholics, both in real life and on this forum, but personally I feel that I can be a good person without strictly adhering to an organized religion. I’m taking a gamble by posting this, I know. I hope that others will respect my opinions. As good human beings, I think that we should be able to discuss differences of opinion, but I do fear that I might have said too much. I hope that I won’t be kicked out for this.
Hello Et Cetera,

Thanks for your candid post about why you left the Church. I am reminded of what Dennis Prager says about preferring clarity to agreement. I may not agree with you, but I appreciate your honesty. I am not able to comment on your entire post, but will instead just make a couple of comments. In reading your post I am reminded of the quote by Bishop Fulton Sheen - " there are not 100 people in the world who truly hate the Catholic Church, but there are millions who hate what they perceive to be the Catholic Church." While I am not saying you hate the Catholic Church, I would argue that you have offered up a version of the Catholic Church - that of a monolithic institution with arbitrary, antiquated rules, etc. - which is not what the Catholic Church really is, and are saying you want no part of that Church. Well, I wouldn’t want any part of the Church you describe either, but the Catholic Church is not as you describe. I am part of a generation of catholics who were not really catechized and consequently many of my friends left the Church as you did. Maybe you got good catechesis maybe you didn’t. Judging from you post, I would have to argue that your catechesis was perhaps incomplete- which is not your fault at all. I’ll throw out three things: First, the “rules” that you speak of are a function of the ten commandments - they apply to our lives today but in different ways. As we advance in technology, the old “thou shalt not kill” (for example) applies in ways that it didn’t before. The Church as our teacher shows us how the ten commandments applies to our complex, technological society. As our society becomes more complex, so too do the applications of basic Christian morality. It may seem like lots of arbitrary rules, but those rules are there to help us. As for your point about the “no meat on Friday” - I agree that criticizing someone for eating a burger while they eat lobster is to miss the whole point which is that we should abstain on Friday’s during Lent and make a sacrifice, not be Pharisaical. Don’t take the sayings of one priest or Catholic and apply it to the whole church. Finally, as for going to mass every Sunday, Jesus commanded us to do so at the Last Supper. That doesn’t mean we can’t do charitable work before or after mass. Its not either/or. The mass is our spiritual food - we need it to get the necessary graces - we need the sacraments and the graces obtained from them. Going to mass and zoning out until the end is not the idea.

NIce signature, by the way. Any reason for including those lines from Prufrock?

Ishii
 
… I said that I didn’t like how much I think people take on ideals of the GOP because they happen to be the pro-life party.
I see what you mean, and I myself went farther into agreement with the GOP than I felt or now feel comfortable with. (I mean, back then I wasn’t entirely comfortable and now I am downright embarrassed ;))

But what started me on disagreeing with them was reading Rerum Novarum, the part where the Pope says that workers and management need to be working together. That really struck me and I turned it over in my mind for a long time. To me, it is *because *I am Catholic that I am changing my political views.
 
But I am sad to find out that there are people in our church who are as you describe. And our last parish–umph! I still shudder when I think of some of the goings-on!

I will pray for you. I know it’s really hard in some places.
Thank you. If only it were just in church. We have four close-enough parishes to choose from here. But it’s people on the internet as well.

I mis-counted. There are still seven toes out the door, not eight. If anyone is interested I will tell you what the three are that remain wedged in the door.
 
For example, not eating meat on Fridays during Lent doesn’t have the same meaning in today’s world, as meat is no longer scarce. In college, a priest chided someone for ordering red meat at a restaurant, where the priest ordered fish. The fish was much more expensive than the red meat dish (guess it wasn’t a filet;)).
Indeed. It’s the timeless case of “the Law” and “the spirit of the Law.” Moreso than the discrepancy between the two and how either gets interpreted, it’s the lack of consistency which we parishioners are given by our priests and bishops which I find discouraging. Some priests say to follow the letter of the Law, others give or take an inch; these priests don’t always agree with the local bishop much less the college of bishops - and who really knows what they think anyway? For instance, right now, my parish pastor - who is politically, religiously and liturgically moderate - operates by what is called “the spirit of the Law,” operating on the principle that intention and conscience are our guides; however, if I were to switch dioceses and move to Madison, Wisconsin, under the jurisdiction of hyper-traditionalist Bishop Morlino, “intention” and “conscience” would be dangerous faculties to operate by. Even Pope Pius IX condemned the exercise of conscience, stating that it led to certain unrighteous liberties.
I am very concerned with morality, and I feel that humans of sound mind are able to look at particular life circumstances and determine the proper course of action. I think that too often organized religion gives someone a standard of action that doesn’t account for individual circumstance.
“Sound mind” is awfully arbitrary, though. Plus, even those of us who believe we are of “sound mind” still fall prey to self-serving habits that have been woven into our personality from the time we were conceived. Essentially, the urgent need to escape from the profound insecurity of this situation gives rise to insatiable desires for pleasure, possession and power, which, when unchecked, leads to the social evils of violence, war and institutional injustice. This should be the goal of religion and spirituality combined. For example, I’m addicted to porn. Though I believe myself to be of sound mind, though I have realized all of the social and personal evils I commit when I look at pornography - such as the fact that I’m indirectly contributing to human trafficking, sex slaves, abortions, etc. - my insatiable desire for pleasure controls me. Unfortunately, based on my experience, Western Christianity has lost focus on how to counter such prerational thoughts.
Moving on, I don’t agree with the Church in regard to homosexuality, birth control, sex before marriage…
Indeed. Again, though, personal morality can be sketchy and quite subjective. It’s obvious that what goes for me won’t go for you. We do need boundaries, I believe, but I think the Church too often uses Tradition as a crutch. Some say to me, “So, you’re essentially saying that what has been handed down from Christ to the Apostles to the Church Fathers is a crutch?” Not at all - but I think perspective is needed on what can truly be defined indefatigably as “Tradition.” For instance, I think Elaine Pagels did an excellent job in her book “Adam, Eve & The Serpent: Sex and Politics in Early Christianity” demonstrating that the Church Tradition-based understanding of most things sexual derives from a cultural revolution of social mores during early antiquity. The Desert Fathers, on the other hand, concern themselves quite frequently with abstention from fornication - their greatest temptation, it seems - due to its dire consequences for spiritual progress. Again, I think Western Christianity has lost focus on what the goal of religion and spirituality should be - which is divinization or oneness with God - and, as a result, through its dogmas, canons and laws, has resulted in the opinion that it’s all about “being good.”
On these forums alone, I see a lot of authoritative, holier-than-thou people, and it’s a real turn off. “Religious arrogance” might be a better term.
If you don’t like it now, just wait! According to John Allen Jr. in his book “The Future Church,” the Church is headed in an ever-more evangelical, conservative direction where progressive and liberal voices will not only be untolerated but silenced. Such a move is largely reactionary as Catholics must fortify their identity or else blend in with the background and become extinct.
Instead of spending time going to mass, what if people instead spent an hour every week volunteering at a soup kitchen or in some way helping another?
I think such an opinion of the Mass is due to two things: the poor quality of the celebration in so, so many parishes, and the lack of proper catechism concerning what the Mass represents. Even the most recent best efforts at explaining such as books by Edward Sri, Scott Hahn and Cardinal Donald Wuerl are lacking as compared to explanations of the Divine Liturgy (of Eastern Orthodoxy) that I’ve read.
Furthermore, I really dislike how much the Church intertwines with politics, particularly in regard to its ties with the Republican Party. Because the GOP is “pro-life” I feel that many people think that they must not only be “pro-life,” but that they must also be staunch GOP supporters.
This reminds me of this small town parish I attended a few months back with my fiance. The priest’s homily that day was a vitriolic rant against Obama that involved him reading news articles about women who had regretted their decision to have an abortion. It was a really negative homily - 19th century style. So, naturally, I found it ironic that the Psalm refrain for that day was, “If today you hear the Lord, harden not your hearts.”

I’ve said enough.
 
Thank you. If only it were just in church. We have four close-enough parishes to choose from here. But it’s people on the internet as well.

I mis-counted. There are still seven toes out the door, not eight. If anyone is interested I will tell you what the three are that remain wedged in the door.
I’m curious about what the three are…😛
 
My dad goes to mass everyday. He’s a good guy. I don’t think it’s an either or type of thing, I just don’t think that you need to go to be a good person.

I didn’t say that I was or wasn’t pro-life. I said that I didn’t like how much I think people take on ideals of the GOP because they happen to be the pro-life party.
I might disagree on that. Like I said in my post…I find myself to be much more selfish when I’m not going to Mass…when I’m not concentrating on someone much higher then myself. Not meaning that everyone who doesn’t go to Mass (just a Sunday) is a terrible person…that’s not what I’m saying at all. But I think it helps A LOT of people put things into perspective.

Not necessarily taking on the ideas of the GOP…and I won’t vote a GOP who won’t come out and say that they are pro-life…but for me that is the biggest issue…because there is NOTHING more innocent then a child inside the womb…someone has to stand for them! I even voted independent in our last governoral election because both the Dem/Rep parties were anti-life.
 
I’m curious about what the three are…😛
  1. I love my Mommy. And I believe in Mary’s perpetual virginity and constant intercession for us.
  2. I love images. Paintings, statues, you name it.
  3. The real Presence.
Let me also be clear about some things:

I really wanted to become Catholic. I have since I was little. I do NOT want or agree with abortion on demand, homosexual ‘marriage,’ women as priests, artificial birth control, or do-as-you-please morality. Maybe that makes me a little different from other disillusioned Catholics.
 
I just wanted to let everyone know that I carefully read all replies, and I thank you for your thoughts. I also thank you for being respectful.
 
I haven’t had the time to read this entire thread. But thought I’d comment on one reason I’ve observed VERY recently.

Just last week I was talking with a person who was raised Catholic, and is now a Protestant.

After a few conversations, I can completely understand why she changed. She explained to me some serious untruths about the Church that she has believed since day one. :eek: I was blown away with some her explanations of “that’s how it was when I was a kid.”

She had so many things wrong, claiming she knew the church up one side and down the other. And ultimately, if the things she had wrong were actually true, we’d all have run for the hills.

I find it very sad a person’s faith was destroyed like that. Her reasons weren’t about wanting to do things we have been taught are wrong. Her reasons were about recognizing the wrong with what she was taught (thinking it was true) as opposed to what is factual.

Just WOW!
 
  1. I love my Mommy. And I believe in Mary’s perpetual virginity and constant intercession for us.
  2. I love images. Paintings, statues, you name it.
  3. The real Presence.
Let me also be clear about some things:

I really wanted to become Catholic. I have since I was little. I do NOT want or agree with abortion on demand, homosexual ‘marriage,’ women as priests, artificial birth control, or do-as-you-please morality. Maybe that makes me a little different from other disillusioned Catholics.
I think you might be like a lot of Catholic converts that post at this forum. i feel some are very attracted to a list of rules that, if followed, will lead to eternal happiness. But I thought that Jesus in the Sermon on the Mount showed that His followers needed to do so much more than “just” following the rules. He was really quite proactive. I am of the opinion that some converts just want to take the Church back to the good old days where they would be most comfortable. Making diffficult decisions is very uncomfortable.
I really am not addressing this to you personally, but some here, in general.
 
I just wanted to let everyone know that I carefully read all replies, and I thank you for your thoughts. I also thank you for being respectful.
I think you were eloquent in your response and I, for one, think you must be a good person. Thank you for sharing you inner thoughts.
 
I think it is so sad that so many Catholics leave the Church. Do they not realize what they are leaving? Do they not realize that they are leaving Jesus Christ in the Eucharist? Do they not realize that they are leaving the one true religion that was founded by God Himself? Oh how I wish that people would just stay Catholic!
 
My dad goes to mass everyday. He’s a good guy. I don’t think it’s an either or type of thing, I just don’t think that you need to go to be a good person.

I didn’t say that I was or wasn’t pro-life. I said that I didn’t like how much I think people take on ideals of the GOP because they happen to be the pro-life party.
At least that’s what they say they are.
 
Okay, I will try to explain this as best as I can.

I personally feel that organized religion puts too much emphasis on “little rules” and detracts from the big picture of someone’s overall morality. I think that too many of the rules are derived from antiquity. For example, not eating meat on Fridays during Lent doesn’t have the same meaning in today’s world, as meat is no longer scarce. In college, a priest chided someone for ordering red meat at a restaurant, where the priest ordered fish. The fish was much more expensive than the red meat dish (guess it wasn’t a filet;)).

I am very concerned with morality, and I feel that humans of sound mind are able to look at particular life circumstances and determine the proper course of action. I think that too often organized religion gives someone a standard of action that doesn’t account for individual circumstance.

Moving on, I don’t agree with the Church in regard to homosexuality, birth control, sex before marriage, and other little issues that probably just aren’t coming to mind right now. I think that humans can practice homosexuality, use birth control, and have sex before marriage and still be good people. I think that these things can all be done morally, and the reasons that the Church has given for being against these particular actions have never been sufficiently convincing for me. Many rules of the Church seem to be outdated, if I’m honest. I think the leaders need to embrace the luxury of modern science more than they do.

The members themselves have also definitely pushed me away. From personal experience, many of them are hypocritical, and I believe that without the structure of organized religion I can avoid much of the drama of church-going and still be a good person. Honestly, I’m not even quite sure of what kind of higher power I believe in, but if he’s omnipotent, benevolent, and forgiving, then I think he must be more concerned with how we act toward others, than whether or not we sit in the pews for an hour on Sunday, often just letting our minds drift. On these forums alone, I see a lot of authoritative, holier-than-thou people, and it’s a real turn off. “Religious arrogance” might be a better term.

I think that more money and time could be spent on helping the poor, with fewer resources going to church upkeep and the like. Instead of spending time going to mass, what if people instead spent an hour every week volunteering at a soup kitchen or in some way helping another? In my mind, a loving higher power would be more pleased (or just as pleased) with someone working hard to ease another’s pain.

Furthermore, I really dislike how much the Church intertwines with politics, particularly in regard to its ties with the Republican Party. Because the GOP is “pro-life” I feel that many people think that they must not only be “pro-life,” but that they must also be staunch GOP supporters. In regard to the poor, I believe that the Democrats are more sympathetic and have policies that are more helpful to the plight of the underprivileged. The Republican ties (which run very deep on this forum) make me wary. I’ve seen logic go out the window so that people can remain faithful to right. Both parties have their good and bad people, policies, etc., and I wish that there could be more acknowledgment of that. I think I’ve been seeing a bit of greediness sneak its way into this religion, by way of the GOP. There seems to be this overwhelming idea that we are all starting from a level playing field and that if everyone puts in the same amount of work, then he or she can achieve the same level of success as someone who was born into a privileged family. There seems to be a lack of empathy for poor and minority groups, and I think that stems from the GOP, which has made its way to Catholicism through the party’s “pro-life” stance.

My overall moral philosophy is to try to never hurt others on purpose and to help others when I can. I’m not saying that I always achieve these goals, but I think it’s a nice pathway to being a good person.

I’m not trying to put down the religious, as I know many good Catholics, both in real life and on this forum, but personally I feel that I can be a good person without strictly adhering to an organized religion. I’m taking a gamble by posting this, I know. I hope that others will respect my opinions. As good human beings, I think that we should be able to discuss differences of opinion, but I do fear that I might have said too much. I hope that I won’t be kicked out for this.
Et Cetera, you explained yourself well and thank you for taking the gamble. I am glad you were not kicked out simply for voicing your beliefs. I agree with ellipsis2 in thinking you must be a good person.

I agree eating an 89 cent burger is a greater sacrifice than a Friday meal of scallops, lobster, etc. Yet the burger is somehow considered wrong. While the latter is acceptable.

Members have pushed me away as well. Though there are a few here who try not to.

And even with as much as the Church gives, I believe too, God, who walked the earth as a carpenter in sandals would rather see even more going towards the poor and less resources going towards upkeep and the like.

I too really dislike how the Church has become so intertwined with GOP politics. Jesus is not a registered Republican nor of any political party. Some though in order to particpate fully in the American electoral process, including voting in primaries, must register with a party and choose the one, while not perfect, but which comes closest overall to their beliefs, moral, spiritual & political. Some folks choose the Republican. Some the Democratic. So the politics espoused on this forum and in what I fear the greater Church at large today is a huge turn off to me as well.

God bless you along your journey and peace be with you always.
 
At least that’s what they say they are.
They might say it but there are many life issues they miss the boat on affecting the lives of the poor and the sick and other born human beings created by God.

Did you happen to catch the Republican primary debates when healthcare and the death penalty in TX were being discussed? When the discussion turned to whether a man without adequate affordable health care coverage should be left to die and to executions in TX (TX governor Rick Perry was still a candidate at the time), there were affirmative shouts and applause in favor of both from the Republican audience these candidates cater to. They actually even booed when a soldier defending our country simply asked about DADT something affecting his life.
 
Et Cetera, you explained yourself well and thank you for taking the gamble. I am glad you were not kicked out simply for voicing your beliefs. I agree with ellipsis2 in thinking you must be a good person.

I agree eating an 89 cent burger is a greater sacrifice than a Friday meal of scallops, lobster, etc. Yet the burger is somehow considered wrong. While the latter is acceptable.

Members have pushed me away as well. Though there are a few here who try not to.

And even with as much as the Church gives, I believe too, God, who walked the earth as a carpenter in sandals would rather see even more going towards the poor and less resources going towards upkeep and the like.

I too really dislike how the Church has become so intertwined with GOP politics. Jesus is not a registered Republican nor of any political party. Some though in order to particpate fully in the American electoral process, including voting in primaries, must register with a party and choose the one, while not perfect, but which comes closest overall to their beliefs, moral, spiritual & political. Some folks choose the Republican. Some the Democratic. So the politics espoused on this forum and in what I fear the greater Church at large today is a huge turn off to me as well.

God bless you along your journey and peace be with you always.
I was watching Hardball last week and Chris Matthes asked why it appeared that the bishops are all Republicans and the nuns are all democrats. The nun that he asked said it was because the nuns were in the trenches with with the disenfranchised and the democratic policies seemed more favorable to those who were not in the upper 1%.
 
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