Large Families on Purpose

[MomaMary8]

For a little clarification regarding the Holy Father’s words:

vaticaninsider.lastampa.it/en/the-vatican/detail/articolo/papa-filippine-38689/

The woman Pope Francis was referring to was at a risk of life if she had more. He emphasized responsible parenting for cases such as hers. To further underscore our dear Papa’s words, here is a quote regarding confessors having compassion for families struggling in our society (from the above article)

Francis then went on to quote his predecessor Paul VI: “I think of the Blessed Paul VI who faced the problem of defending openness to family life in the face of a population increase. He knew about the difficulties families were facing, this is why he was so merciful toward special cases and asked confessors to be very understanding and merciful in his encyclical (the Humanae Vitae, Ed.). But he looked ahead, he looked at the people of the Earth and saw the impending threat of the destruction of the family through the deprivation of children. Paul VI was courageous, he was a good pastor and warned his flock about the wolf that was coming. Today he sends us his blessings from Heaven.”

It was not a condemnation of families blessed with many children.

 

[jmjZelie]

vaticaninsider.lastampa.it/en/the-vatican/detail/articolo/papa-filippine-38689/

Here is a link to a much better discussion of the Pope’s actual words and what he was truly talking about when he discussed three children and responsible parenthood. All of the other discussions I have seen prior to this article were so skewed against large families that much of the good that the pope said was edited out.

I do want to mention that I recall reading a papal encyclical recently (from a 20th century pope) that discussed responsible parenthood and it said that responsible parenthood is demonstrated either by generously accepting another baby or by practicing periodic continence to delay a pregnancy. Both choices were mentioned. So parents growing their families can be said to be responsible, and that is a point that often is overlooked when that encyclical is discussed. I wish I could recall which encyclical that was but my memory is not that great right now, because I am tired out by da bebes.

 

[jmjZelie]

For a little clarification regarding the Holy Father’s words:

vaticaninsider.lastampa.it/en/the-vatican/detail/articolo/papa-filippine-38689/

The woman Pope Francis was referring to was at a risk of life if she had more. He emphasized responsible parenting for cases such as hers. To further underscore our dear Papa’s words, here is a quote regarding confessors having compassion for families struggling in our society (from the above article)

Francis then went on to quote his predecessor Paul VI: “I think of the Blessed Paul VI who faced the problem of defending openness to family life in the face of a population increase. He knew about the difficulties families were facing, this is why he was so merciful toward special cases and asked confessors to be very understanding and merciful in his encyclical (the Humanae Vitae, Ed.). But he looked ahead, he looked at the people of the Earth and saw the impending threat of the destruction of the family through the deprivation of children. Paul VI was courageous, he was a good pastor and warned his flock about the wolf that was coming. Today he sends us his blessings from Heaven.”

It was not a condemnation of families blessed with many children.

Ah, you posted while I was writing!

 

[lifeisbeautiful]

The truth of it is that there hides in parts of the Church the false belief that Catholicism holds quiverfull thinking higher than ‘responsible parenthood’ ie responsible parenthood which consider a range of factors that impact on couples capacity to meet the basic needs of all their children… physical, emotional, spiritual, educational. That was what Pope Francis addressed by his January plane interview…
…

Cut for space

No one is advocating against responsible parenthood. Responsible parenthood includes receiving children AND educating them in the faith. NFP isn’t required, not even for responsible parenthood . If a woman is in the position where she simply cannot get pregnant again (and it seems like the Holy Father felt like this woman was risking her life), then yes, she should avoid pregnancy (can be through complete abstinence or NFP). This does not mean people should use NFP to carefully plan the timing for each child without having reasons to do so. BTW, I know a family where the mother had 6 c-sections and her doctor was on board with her having these pregnancies from a medical standpoint; her uterus and body were healthy enough to have those pregnancies. Her kids are now grown with beautiful growing families of their own, and she is a glowing grandma . I know of other people who have had less c-sections and have been told they cannot get pregnant again.

From the Holy Father as well:
December 28, 2014
from:

“Dear parents, I am grateful for your example of the love of life, which you guard from conception until the natural end, even with all of life’s difficulties and burdens, which unfortunately public institutions do not always help you to bear. You rightly recall that the Italian Constitution, under Article 31, calls for particular consideration to large families; but this is not adequately reflected in reality. It remains in print. I therefore hope, also in view of the low birth rate that has been recorded for some time in Italy, for greater attention in policies and from public administrators at every level, in order to give the envisaged support to these families. Each family is a cell of society, but a large family is a richer, more vital cell, and the State has every interest in investing in it!”

And on poverty

The meetings with families and young people in Manila were defining moments of my visit to the Philippines. Good families are essential to the life of society. It is a consolation and hope to see so many large families that welcome children as a true gift from God. They know that every child is a blessing. I have heard it said by some that families with many children, and the birth of so many children, are among the causes of poverty. This seems to me a simplistic opinion. I can say, we can all say, that the principle cause of poverty is an economic system that has removed the human person from the center and has replaced him with the god of money; an economic system that excludes, and excludes always: it excludes children, the elderly, young people without work — and that creates the throwaway culture in which we live today. We are used to seeing people discarded. This is the main reason for poverty, not large families.

The three child quote was something that was misrepresented out there, he was just repeating the statistic, when talking about Neo-Malthusianism, that Pope Paul VI had warned against (and Pope Francis was supporting Pope Paul VI’s Humanae Vitae in his comments).

 

[Xantippe]

vaticaninsider.lastampa.it/en/the-vatican/detail/articolo/papa-filippine-38689/

Here is a link to a much better discussion of the Pope’s actual words and what he was truly talking about when he discussed three children and responsible parenthood. All of the other discussions I have seen prior to this article were so skewed against large families that much of the good that the pope said was edited out.

I do want to mention that I recall reading a papal encyclical recently (from a 20th century pope) that discussed responsible parenthood and it said that responsible parenthood is demonstrated either by generously accepting another baby or by practicing periodic continence to delay a pregnancy. Both choices were mentioned. So parents growing their families can be said to be responsible, and that is a point that often is overlooked when that encyclical is discussed. I wish I could recall which encyclical that was but my memory is not that great right now, because I am tired out by da bebes.

That was Humanae Vitae–I think.

 

[jmjZelie]

That was Humanae Vitae–I think.

Yes, you are right. Thank you!

“Responsible parenthood is exercised either by the mature and generous decision to raise a large family, or by the decision, made for grave motives and with respect for the moral law, to avoid a new birth for the time being, or even for an indeterminate period” (§10).
-Humane Vitae

 

[adamhovey1988]

Oh, I’m sleep deprived! I’ve just gotten used to it I know my limits, I rest when I can. It is amazing what a 15 minute nap can do! When I had just littles, I enforced nap/quiet time. I do fondly recalling telling my oldest it was because I needed the nap but he could quietly look at a book if he wanted. Nursing sessions often gave me a quick rest leading to an energy boost. Now that I have older kids and constant noise in the house I’m sort of looking forward to the late night nursing sessions with the new baby. Nursing in peace and quiet, no interuptions, no one asking for a drink…ahhhhh. I’m actually longing for those nights again. Crazy, isn’t it? I’ll still stock up on Diet Coke for my 3:00 pm caffeine boost to get me through the end of the day.

#'s 3 & 4 were Irish twins for me.

My two youngest sisters were 8 and 9 respectively, after my mother had three miscarriages.

 

[holyrood]

Another couple might not really know how to discern whether or not they are being called to a large family. They might have serious reasons that would lead certain couples to practice NFP to avoid pregnancy, and yet decide that those reasons are not sufficient in their own marriage. They might be capable of practicing NFP, but simply don’t want to. So they muddle their way along, baby after baby, until they have a truly large family that surprises even themselves. I see their decision as a generous one, too.
…

What I am asking about is the philosophy and perspective and logistics. I want to learn from other veteran large family parents and benefit from your wisdom. I admire you deeply, however you arrived at your large family size, and I wish I could take you out for coffee and just listen to you talk about your family culture, because I know no one with a family larger than my own, which is already quite large at 5, but which might possibly grow soon enough, because my husband and I are like that third couple I described.

I ended up with a large family because 1. a friend posed the question why call yourself Catholic if you don’t actually believe it, and I could see no good reason to leave the Catholic Church for any other branch of Christianity, and especially no good reason to suddenly quit believing in God or Christ. So I started following Catholic teaching. and 2. because NFP just didn’t seem to work for us. I knew exactly how it’s supposed to work, kept the charts, watched the signs, and still ended up getting pregnant repeatedly–including with multiples, no less, days outside of even the pretty safe zone. I.e., it should have been medically impossible according to NFP, and yet it happened.

I’m one of those who muddled along, swearing I’d figure it out next time…telling myself 5 was only one more than 4 which lots of people had…struggling with the concept of 6 and admitting I was now one of those nut cases with a really big family…and finally ending up with 9 when I was 36.

6 was the turning point for me. My own mother greeted the news of the 5th with a sigh for my ineptitude (the woman who supposedly raised me to be Catholic ) so I didn’t bother telling her about #6 until a few weeks before birth. #6 was very hard for me, but once that child was born, I fell in love and everything changed.

In the years since, I have come to truly appreciate not only the individual children, whom I have always loved of course, but the wonder God has done in my life and how my family is impacting those around us, simply by the fact that we live what is now a counter cultural life. I see kids who have begged for years for ore siblings, who have open and generous hearts, who look up to their older siblings and are so excited when they come home, who learned to care for and love their younger siblings, and shower them with love when they come home.

I think people don’t know what to make of our family because they’ve heard all the ugly stereotypes of big families, yet they see me living a full and active life and siblings who are not trapped at home ‘raising the younger kids’ but out getting advanced degrees, adults who love their younger siblings and actually wish they’d had even more, kids who look forward to having their own families and in some cases look forward to having large families themselves, because they love having so many siblings.

I value and treasure the joy on their faces when they get together.

I value the moments when my daughter tells me she thinks we did a great job raising her–that they never realized we counted as ‘poor’ by some government number or other, because we always had what we needed and they were having fun. That she learned to value people and time together instead of things and money.

I value the moments my older kids reminisce and laugh about the things they did together, and the moments when a pair of kids who butted heads finally grows up and comes together as friends.

Don’t worry what anyone else says about you or your family. Look to God and your husband and your children.

AT THE SAME TIME…

I would never deliberately aim for or try for a big family, OR a small family. I really think the truth is not in family size, but in trusting God and in being joyful with what we have. I love my big family, but there are advantages to having/being an only child as well as the advantages my kids have with all these siblings, and it’s really about* accepting God’s graces, and what He has in mind for us,* and using what He gives us to the best of our ability.

I have a friend who has only one child, because he and his wife lost a number of babies to miscarriage. He is able to provide his one child the world, and since his wife died, he is showering those resources on my children, too, and not only willing but ABLE to give a great deal of help and attention and resources to my kids with autism.

Why did God deny him children and give so many to me? We can’t answer that. We can only know that we all have different gifts in life and we are all called to use those advantages to serve God and make life better for others. He is able to give something to my kids that I can’t–because he had a smaller family. At the same time, his child is gaining something from being with my kids because of what my family is, something that child never had and never would have experienced, and values and loves.

This to me is the deeper truth about NFP and family size: trusting God, rather than the actual number of children. What does He want from us, rather than what do we want from life?

I, personally, have found greater joy in trusting God, even though none of it was what I planned.

 

[Dorothy]

holyrood,

Thank you for your inspiring post! Trusting God!

 

[holyrood]

holyrood,

Thank you for your inspiring post! Trusting God!

Thank you.

 

[bitterhope]

I’ve heard many moms say baby #2 or 3 was the toughest adjustment and after that everything just seemed to fall in to place. For me it was #5, and it’s so funny because in actuality he has always been the easiest, most helpful, cheerful little boy. It was the idea that I was in over my head and knowing adjustments needed to be made but not knowing where to start with those adjustments left me feeling like I was caught up in as whirl wind. I completely understand how people make the decision to stop regardless of what it takes to assure no more children. What I realize now is that many of those moms are still struggling with the kids they’ve got, and I no longer am. That doesn’t mean that life is perfect or that my kids never make me angry or that all are perfectly well mannered at all times, it means I now understand that life is worth it regardless of how messy it gets. There comes a point for all if us that we are forced to either grow spiritually and place our reliance in God or we become spiritually depressed. It is one of many ways God helps us to mature spiritually and it somehow makes a much more childlike trust in Him.

 

[jmjZelie]

I would like to resurrect my thread from last Advent, to see if there is anyone who would like to continue this discussion further.

I have a few more questions.

How does a person know when it is God who is leading the couple to be open to have another child, and when it is merely concupiscence and/or the “baby urge”?

How does one know if they are being virtuous in generosity in childbearing or vicious by being unwilling/unable to abstain?

This question is not about judgement or condemnation, but about discernment.

I see so many questions about NFP vs. contraception here at CAF, but I see very few questions about NFP vs. providentialism (my apologies if that is the wrong word…I can’t think of a better word to describe just living as man and wife without attempting to conceive or abstaining to avoid pregnancy). I still am not quite sure how to think Catholic about this issue.

 

[Xantippe]

I would like to resurrect my thread from last Advent, to see if there is anyone who would like to continue this discussion further.

I have a few more questions.

How does a person know when it is God who is leading the couple to be open to have another child, and when it is merely concupiscence and/or the “baby urge”?

How does one know if they are being virtuous in generosity in childbearing or vicious by being unwilling/unable to abstain?

This question is not about judgement or condemnation, but about discernment.

I see so many questions about NFP vs. contraception here at CAF, but I see very few questions about NFP vs. providentialism (my apologies if that is the wrong word…I can’t think of a better word to describe just living as man and wife without attempting to conceive or abstaining to avoid pregnancy). I still am not quite sure how to think Catholic about this issue.

If the needs and welfare of all existing members of the household are being given proper weight, I don’t think it’s wrong to “do what comes naturally.”

Also, I think I’d look at the quality of existing relationships.

A new member of the family is likely to put stress on existing relationships. For instance, I know that my husband and argue more when I’m either pregnant or when we have kids 0-3 at home. I can get really rage-y and tightly wound when hormonal, so the quality of both my wifing and my parenting have been known to suffer when we add a little one to our household. It’s kind of like a sort of self-inflicted temporary mental illness.

 

[jmjZelie]

If the needs and welfare of all existing members of the household are being given proper weight, I don’t think it’s wrong to “do what comes naturally.”

Also, I think I’d look at the quality of existing relationships.

A new member of the family is likely to put stress on existing relationships. For instance, I know that my husband and argue more when I’m either pregnant or when we have kids 0-3 at home. I can get really rage-y and tightly wound when hormonal, so the quality of both my wifing and my parenting have been known to suffer when we add a little one to our household. It’s kind of like a sort of self-inflicted temporary mental illness.

Okay this is a good guideline. For myself, I like how I would answer each of the first two considerations. With respect to my condition during pregnancy, that is honestly the hardest aspect of family planning for me. I get seriously pukey for 20 weeks, and I am weaker and more tired. But I never have relationship problems due to hormones or mood swings.

The kids are honestly hoping we might still be blessed with another baby boy, but God has a sense of humor…

Thanks for offering your thoughts, Xantippe!

 

[Kelfa28]

I have a few more questions.

How does a person know when it is God who is leading the couple to be open to have another child, and when it is merely concupiscence and/or the “baby urge”?

How does one know if they are being virtuous in generosity in childbearing or vicious by being unwilling/unable to abstain?

This question is not about judgement or condemnation, but about discernment.

I see so many questions about NFP vs. contraception here at CAF, but I see very few questions about NFP vs. providentialism (my apologies if that is the wrong word…I can’t think of a better word to describe just living as man and wife without attempting to conceive or abstaining to avoid pregnancy). I still am not quite sure how to think Catholic about this issue.

Your first question is kind of interesting.
I know for certain that God was calling my husband and I to conceive again. I was at Mass on my own one day and I happened to see a family I’ve come to know and love sitting a few pews in front.
A family of 6 total and their youngest is my oldest child’s exact age.
Something struck me and I felt at peace and suddenly knew we needed to try and have another.
So we did…I stopped charting for one month and conceived my middle child about a month later.

At the same time…I knew I didn’t want to have a third baby for awhile and was getting very afraid and antsy about charting.
Nothing was clicking and I couldn’t figure out what was going on each month.
We got pregnant again pretty quickly.

As for your second question. This was something I wrestled with after our third baby. I absolutely did not want to conceive at all.
I was completely willing to give up sex entirely after a couple of months because the thought of having another baby scared me to death.

It was rough on our marriage…but really it was everything. Finances, having three very young kids, a baby who didn’t sleep, deep depression for us both, school and his insane hours.

It just wasn’t healthy for us…and, like it or not, being abstinent wasn’t healthy for us. It was one piece of the puzzle we needed to figure out.

It’s hard for me to imagine a mom wanting to go beyond 3-4 children…but that is just me.

I know I can’t do it. I’m just not a healthy or safe human being to be around when I’m PP. It has been 6 months and I’m just starting to feel a little better on a global health scale.

I want to keep it that way and I’ve taken the necessary steps to get there. Medication, trips to our Priest, intimacy and working together has helped us in a big way.

It’s very, very hard for me to relax a little and not dwell on things that are beyond my control.

For me and my family…anything above where we are at is just out of the question. I’ve had the time to process things over the past month because I started feeling better and started to look at things rationally.

If my husband and I were different people with different personalities we’d never use NFP and would try to be open to life and have a crowd of kids.
I love making babies with him.

But there are too many things that work against us. I can’t space children through nursing. My PP depression is too severe for my comfort level and for the safety of myself and my children.
Plus my health has been rapidly declining and I’ve only just started to work on treatments for it and get back to where I was before I started having children.

If that is wrong and if I’m going about it the wrong way…well, I’m at the end of my rope of ideas.

I think one knows when they are very much done. My husband and I know we are very much done having children.

 

[LongingSoul]

I would like to resurrect my thread from last Advent, to see if there is anyone who would like to continue this discussion further.

I have a few more questions.

How does a person know when it is God who is leading the couple to be open to have another child, and when it is merely concupiscence and/or the “baby urge”?

How does one know if they are being virtuous in generosity in childbearing or vicious by being unwilling/unable to abstain?

This question is not about judgement or condemnation, but about discernment.

I see so many questions about NFP vs. contraception here at CAF, but I see very few questions about NFP vs. providentialism (my apologies if that is the wrong word…I can’t think of a better word to describe just living as man and wife without attempting to conceive or abstaining to avoid pregnancy). I still am not quite sure how to think Catholic about this issue.

jmjzelie, providentialism is not actually a Catholic idea. I think that in the US there is some cross pollination between the Protestant Evangelical ideal of the quiverful movement and some newish Catholics, but traditionally ‘openness to life’ for Catholics is much more connected to rejecting contraception (including onanism) than too a purpose breeding mentality. Of course some people love large families and take a route of providence… but that isn’t a philosophy of providentialism per se.

I think the main thing is to not allow yourself to be guilt tripped by any group. Providentialists, radical breastfeeding associations etc. Be attentive to Gods will for you, your marriage and family and what you are good at and happy in doing.

Most of all, it doesn’t make sense for all the women in the world to be perpetual breeders as the sole role of women unless they are physically unhealthy enough. It makes much more sense that couples have a unique vocation based on the many gifts God has given each to make the world a better place.

That’s my view.

 

[jmjZelie]

jmjzelie, providentialism is not actually a Catholic idea. I think that in the US there is some cross pollination between the Protestant Evangelical ideal of the quiverful movement and some newish Catholics, but traditionally ‘openness to life’ for Catholics is much more connected to rejecting contraception (including onanism) than too a purpose breeding mentality. Of course some people love large families and take a route of providence… but that isn’t a philosophy of providentialism per se.

I think the main thing is to not allow yourself to be guilt tripped by any group. Providentialists, radical breastfeeding associations etc. Be attentive to Gods will for you, your marriage and family and what you are good at and happy in doing.

Most of all, it doesn’t make sense for all the women in the world to be perpetual breeders as the sole role of women unless they are physically unhealthy enough. It makes much more sense that couples have a unique vocation based on the many gifts God has given each to make the world a better place.

That’s my view.

Why do you use the term breeders? That really made me feel uncomfortable. Do you not realize that is a slur against women who have large families? I have been called a breeder before, but only recently have I been reminded by fellow Catholics not to be like rabbits and breed.

And I don’t understand why you say “sole role of women”. I am very busy homeschooling and volunteering and working on building a good social life and a happy home with and for my family. It is not like I am advocating for women to be restricted to doing nothing other than gestating.

Yes, I see your view. It is coming through loud and clear by the language you are using in addressing me. Thank you for taking the time to post. God bless you.

 

[jmjZelie]

Your first question is kind of interesting.
I know for certain that God was calling my husband and I to conceive again. I was at Mass on my own one day and I happened to see a family I’ve come to know and love sitting a few pews in front.
A family of 6 total and their youngest is my oldest child’s exact age.
Something struck me and I felt at peace and suddenly knew we needed to try and have another.
So we did…I stopped charting for one month and conceived my middle child about a month later.

At the same time…I knew I didn’t want to have a third baby for awhile and was getting very afraid and antsy about charting.
Nothing was clicking and I couldn’t figure out what was going on each month.
We got pregnant again pretty quickly.

As for your second question. This was something I wrestled with after our third baby. I absolutely did not want to conceive at all.
I was completely willing to give up sex entirely after a couple of months because the thought of having another baby scared me to death.

It was rough on our marriage…but really it was everything. Finances, having three very young kids, a baby who didn’t sleep, deep depression for us both, school and his insane hours.

It just wasn’t healthy for us…and, like it or not, being abstinent wasn’t healthy for us. It was one piece of the puzzle we needed to figure out.

It’s hard for me to imagine a mom wanting to go beyond 3-4 children…but that is just me.

I know I can’t do it. I’m just not a healthy or safe human being to be around when I’m PP. It has been 6 months and I’m just starting to feel a little better on a global health scale.

I want to keep it that way and I’ve taken the necessary steps to get there. Medication, trips to our Priest, intimacy and working together has helped us in a big way.

It’s very, very hard for me to relax a little and not dwell on things that are beyond my control.

For me and my family…anything above where we are at is just out of the question. I’ve had the time to process things over the past month because I started feeling better and started to look at things rationally.

If my husband and I were different people with different personalities we’d never use NFP and would try to be open to life and have a crowd of kids.
I love making babies with him.

But there are too many things that work against us. I can’t space children through nursing. My PP depression is too severe for my comfort level and for the safety of myself and my children.
Plus my health has been rapidly declining and I’ve only just started to work on treatments for it and get back to where I was before I started having children.

If that is wrong and if I’m going about it the wrong way…well, I’m at the end of my rope of ideas.

I think one knows when they are very much done. My husband and I know we are very much done having children.

This is really helpful, Kelfa. Thank you! I appreciate you taking the time to carefully answer my questions. The fact that you have had clear instincts in both directions but at different times is interesting.

For my husband and I, we are not really certain about anything right now. Mainly, our marriage is better when we don’t do NFP. When we first practiced NFP after our third child was born, and again after our fourth, we only did so for a few months until the child was old enough that conception was not worrisome. We were excited about the idea of pregnancy again. NFP for those few months was not really very hard on us at all.
This time around, it is horrible on me. It hasn’t been very long that I have had a return on fertility, but the uncertainty and the abstinence has been incredibly difficult. My husband has been doing fine, he says it is easier for him now that he is a little older. But for me the opposite is true. I struggle with self-hateful lines of thinking, trying to manage the psychological and physical burden.
It has made me wonder if God is using this trial to guide me away from what He does not want for me or my marriage. I have felt so pressured to use NFP, not by my husband, but by a combination of circumstance (housing, transportation, finding a new OB and building a new support system after our cross-country move, etc) and other people’s opinions (the people who tell us we should be done or who stop and stare as we pass by). The possibility of needing another C-section (I had my first C-section with my last child) concerns me, mostly because of the recovery time. My husband, on the other hand, has left this decision entirely up to me. If I want to be open to another baby, fine. If I want to practice NFP to avoid, fine. He only cares about doing what is healthiest and what will genuinely make me happy.
So there are just reasons to avoid using NFP, but I really don’t want to. I would happily welcome another baby if God sends us one, but I don’t want to try on purpose. But I also know that I have a history of getting pregnant on the first cycle.
Every single one of our questions has a satisfactory answer, yet I still feel guilty about just winging it. I am still trying to root out the conditioning of my upbringing, where my dad taught me that husbands do not want children but merely tolerate them for the sake of keeping their wives from nagging them. I am wondering if my inhibitions have something to do with that poison.
Sorry for such a rambling reply. But that is a peek into the confusion that I am experiencing about the contradictory goals and desires that go on in my head!

 

[DeniseNY]

Why do you use the term breeders? That really made me feel uncomfortable. Do you not realize that is a slur against women who have large families? I have been called a breeder before, but only recently have I been reminded by fellow Catholics not to be like rabbits and breed.

And I don’t understand why you say “sole role of women”. I am very busy homeschooling and volunteering and working on building a good social life and a happy home with and for my family. It is not like I am advocating for women to be restricted to doing nothing other than gestating.

Yes, I see your view. It is coming through loud and clear by the language you are using in addressing me. Thank you for taking the time to post. God bless you.

I agree. It’s rather offensive.

 

[LongingSoul]

Why do you use the term breeders? That really made me feel uncomfortable. Do you not realize that is a slur against women who have large families? I have been called a breeder before, but only recently have I been reminded by fellow Catholics not to be like rabbits and breed.

And I don’t understand why you say “sole role of women”. I am very busy homeschooling and volunteering and working on building a good social life and a happy home with and for my family. It is not like I am advocating for women to be restricted to doing nothing other than gestating.

Yes, I see your view. It is coming through loud and clear by the language you are using in addressing me. Thank you for taking the time to post. God bless you.

I’m sorry I’ve offended you. You introduced the ideological position of ‘providentialism’ which is not a Catholic ‘default’ as some on this site claim. I was speaking in terms of ideologies and ideologues in a way that Pope Francis had also clumsily tried to define a false ideology by using the term ‘breed like the rabbits’. I will back out. Sorry to have entered into the conversation.