Large Families on Purpose

[Xantippe]

Avoiding, whether through NFP or “plain vanilla abstinence” is still avoiding. I guess these labels and definitions thrown out there vary from person to person. I think it is just easy to read in the Catechism. Accept children God sends, raise them in the Faith… if just reasons arise, and we are sure we are motivated for the right reasons, we can avoid pregnancy for however long those reasons persist, knowing that “human life and the duty of transmitting it are not limited by the horizons of this life only: their true evaluation and full significance can be understood only in reference to man’s eternal destiny.” So yes, be open to the children God wants to send you, and if you prayerfully discern you need to avoid, you can definitely use periodic continence (or plain vanilla abstinence ) to avoid. NFP is not required to be a good responsible parent.

But I think we need to can the “trusting God,” “letting God plan our family,” and “accepting children as they come” terminology for providentialism–unless the couple seriously means to never, ever wait and never, ever abstain. It doesn’t make sense to use that language to mean not-doing-NFP–and then do lengthy abstinence anyway. That language also carries the unpleasant implication that the NFP couple (or just plain vanilla abstinent couple) is not trusting God and not accepting children as they come, which is not fair or accurate.

 

[UbiCaritas]

I can only speak for my family, but NFP will not prevent a baby for us. We have had 12 years of attempting it and it never worked so if there is a need to avoid a child we really don’t have any other option. For over a year that’s exactly what we have done. During deployments that is exactly what we do so it’s not a new thing for us. My husband is gone until April for training and that’s kind of what needs to happen during separations. Abstaining when one spouse chooses it against the wishes of the other is very difficult. That’s a big part of why the priests we have spoken with have urged us to try to conceive when he gets home until the deployment and then just leave it to chance from that point on. They have all cautioned us that using NFP or abstaining when no compelling reasons exist is not Catholic, Biblical, or healthy for a couple. If there were reasons for it, it would be one thing, but simply because a spouse thinks he or she knows best is quite another.

I don’t understand why people here keep assuming that there are posters on this thread that are advocating for anyone to give birth to as many babies as possible, or that anyone thinks that any of us think no reasons exist for avoiding pregnancy ever, or that any of us embrace an ideology that forces women to do nothing except breed. Many of us have stated repeatedly that NFP works well for some couples but it is not for everyone. There are many reasons it isn’t for everyone. Personally I think it is a calling from God within the souls of the couple. If God is calling you to accept children as they come, He will make NFP much harder or impossible.

If the definition of providentialism that longing soul gave earlier in the thread is accurate, I have to honestly say I have never seen anyone on CAF or in real life ever advocate for that. I have seen the opposite occur where undue pressure has been placed on a couple to stop having kids after just one or two children. According to that definition, I don’t think someone that was part of that movement would use NFP to avoid or abstain completely either for any reason. I can see how NFP would be viewed differently by them though. I could see how they would view it as going against natural law. I’m not sure if I would agree with that myself, but I can see the point they would try to make. This is where I think it’s good to think for yourself instead of worrying what others believe. It’s where asking priests for help making decisions you are struggling with is probably the best shot at developing the confidence needed to stop second guessing yourself.

And before anyone thinks I’m singling out a specific person, no I’m not. When I write you, it is a general address not to anybody specifically.

I have seen the have-babies-no-matter-what providentialism in person, but I grant that my experience is pretty unique among most mainstream Catholics. In the church in which I grew up (very trad, though technically under the authority of the local bishop) most couples didn’t practice NFP; in fact, there was a strong running mentality of “if you trust God enough, nothing bad can happen,” to the point that women who had objectively good reasons for avoiding (husband’s out of a job, she had a C-section a month before, is undergoing treatment for cancer, whatever) got a lot of pressure on them to still get pregnant ASAP after the last baby. It was a community heavily influenced by the local uber-conservative/fundamentalist Protestant homeschooling community, though; I certainly don’t think this is SOP in most Catholic churches or circles.

 

[UbiCaritas]

But I think we need to can the “trusting God,” “letting God plan our family,” and “accepting children as they come” terminology for providentialism–unless the couple seriously means to never, ever wait and never, ever abstain. It doesn’t make sense to use that language to mean not-doing-NFP–and then do lengthy abstinence anyway. That language also carries the unpleasant implication that the NFP couple (or just plain vanilla abstinent couple) is not trusting God and not accepting children as they come, which is not fair or accurate.

But it’s a common misconception (ooooh, terrible pun) among some (admittedly, in the scheme of things, rare) circles. I think I’ve mentioned before that the (trad) priest who married us told us not to learn NFP because then we’d be tempted to use it, as though using it was itself a sin.

 

[Mary_Gail_36]

But I think we need to can the “trusting God,” “letting God plan our family,” and “accepting children as they come” terminology for providentialism–unless the couple seriously means to never, ever wait and never, ever abstain. It doesn’t make sense to use that language to mean not-doing-NFP–and then do lengthy abstinence anyway. That language also carries the unpleasant implication that the NFP couple (or just plain vanilla abstinent couple) is not trusting God and not accepting children as they come, which is not fair or accurate.

I agree with what I highlighted in pink.

For myself, I’ve accepted all my children as they came, even the ones I miscarried.

I’ve been avoiding for 7 years. (My preemie is 7 now)

Avoiding intimacy when I’m fertile means just that. Not that I am not accepting of children.

I’m not actively trying to conceive.

But I think this might be a deviation from the OP’s intent.

 

[MomaMary8]

You confuse every married who chooses to not use NFP, contraception and/or sterilization with a particular subset of the group who hold to a philosophy that not everyone in that group shares.

If a couple takes no particular measures to avoid pregnancy or conceive, why do you feel the need to attribute a particular philosophy to them? These people may simply be your fellow Catholics who accept that NFP is within Church teachings but they’ve decided for one reason or another that they don’t wish to use it–yet they haven’t necessarily ruled out the possibility that they might at some point in the future need to use NFP or abstinence, and they accept and respect when other couples who share their faith make different decisions regarding the use of NFP? If you must attach an “ism” to a word to describe married couples who do that, perhaps try using the word “Catholicism”.

I think this is it. I’m not sure why the word “provedentialism” bugs me, but it does. I’m not sure if I would be even labeled as one. What I realize now (thanks Garden!) is that I just want to be called Catholic. I don’t feel like I am abandoning my ability to use my free will, I am just trying to unite my will to God’s will in all aspects of my life, including my fertility. Isn’t this just being Catholic?

I’m the type that I can (or could) conceive very easily. In one year I had 2 miscarriages, and then conceived and gave birth to my youngest, who was a preemie.

I learned Creighton in my early forties.

Interesting. Despite being blessed with 10 kids, I have found my fertility decline in my 40’s. Since turning 40 I’ve given birth to two live babies, 1 miscarriage and 1 stillbirth. I am now even wondering if I’ll ever be able to have another. May I ask how old you were the year you had 2 miscarriages and 1 preemie? Forgive me if I’m being to forward. I am very interested to see the many differences we have. As a mother of 10 I get a lot of questions and some come from women who are over 40 and trying to have kids and some avoiding. It would help me in dealing with these women to hear your experience.

 

[Xantippe]

I can only speak for my family, but NFP will not prevent a baby for us. We have had 12 years of attempting it and it never worked so if there is a need to avoid a child we really don’t have any other option. For over a year that’s exactly what we have done. During deployments that is exactly what we do so it’s not a new thing for us. My husband is gone until April for training and that’s kind of what needs to happen during separations. Abstaining when one spouse chooses it against the wishes of the other is very difficult. That’s a big part of why the priests we have spoken with have urged us to try to conceive when he gets home until the deployment and then just leave it to chance from that point on. **They have all cautioned us that using NFP or abstaining when no compelling reasons exist is not Catholic, Biblical, or healthy for a couple. If there were reasons for it, it would be one thing, but simply because a spouse thinks he or she knows best is quite another.
**
I don’t understand why people here keep assuming that there are posters on this thread that are advocating for anyone to give birth to as many babies as possible, or that anyone thinks that any of us think no reasons exist for avoiding pregnancy ever, or that any of us embrace an ideology that forces women to do nothing except breed. Many of us have stated repeatedly that NFP works well for some couples but it is not for everyone. There are many reasons it isn’t for everyone. Personally I think it is a calling from God within the souls of the couple. If God is calling you to accept children as they come, He will make NFP much harder or impossible.

If the definition of providentialism that longing soul gave earlier in the thread is accurate, I have to honestly say I have never seen anyone on CAF or in real life ever advocate for that. I have seen the opposite occur where undue pressure has been placed on a couple to stop having kids after just one or two children. According to that definition, I don’t think someone that was part of that movement would use NFP to avoid or abstain completely either for any reason. I can see how NFP would be viewed differently by them though. I could see how they would view it as going against natural law. I’m not sure if I would agree with that myself, but I can see the point they would try to make. This is where I think it’s good to think for yourself instead of worrying what others believe. It’s where asking priests for help making decisions you are struggling with is probably the best shot at developing the confidence needed to stop second guessing yourself.

And before anyone thinks I’m singling out a specific person, no I’m not. When I write you, it is a general address not to anybody specifically.

I would argue that the fact that one spouse does not want a new baby could be a “serious reason” for the other spouse to delay until the unwilling spouse warms up to the idea, even if the unwilling spouse does not have a “serious reason” himself or herself.

I also think that there is an issue of conscience in play. If the unwilling spouse is unwilling because he or she believes that having a new pregnancy and new baby would substantially harm their family, I think that might be a case where the primacy of conscience kicks in.

 

[Xantippe]

For myself, I’ve accepted all my children as they came, even the ones I miscarried.

I’ve been avoiding for 7 years. (My preemie is 7 now)

Avoiding intimacy when I’m fertile means just that. Not that I am not accepting of children.

I’m not actively trying to conceive.

Yep.

 

[Mary_Gail_36]

I think this is it. I’m not sure why the word “provedentialism” bugs me, but it does. I’m not sure if I would be even labeled as one. What I realize now (thanks Garden!) is that I just want to be called Catholic. I don’t feel like I am abandoning my ability to use my free will, I am just trying to unite my will to God’s will in all aspects of my life, including my fertility. Isn’t this just being Catholic?

Interesting. Despite being blessed with 10 kids, I have found my fertility decline in my 40’s. Since turning 40 I’ve given birth to two live babies, 1 miscarriage and 1 stillbirth. I am now even wondering if I’ll ever be able to have another. May I ask how old you were the year you had 2 miscarriages and 1 preemie? Forgive me if I’m being to forward. I am very interested to see the many differences we have. As a mother of 10 I get a lot of questions and some come from women who are over 40 and trying to have kids and some avoiding. It would help me in dealing with these women to hear your experience.

Sure. My son was born right when I was almost 40. The two miscarriages I was almost 39.

I’m 46. And a half.

The two miscarriages were very early, and my doctor thought that they were due to genetic problems that were not compatible with life. It could be. It could have also been due to poor progesterone production. I did have short post peaks even when I was taking progesterone.

The preemie was born due to a partial placental abruption. He was my hardest pregnancy. Occasional bed rest, gestational diabetes, episodes of spotting. My doctor didn’t attribute it to my age though, just the positioning of the placenta.

We’ve avoided because having a preemie increases ones risk for another preemie. Mine was fairly little (28 weeks). Also my miscarriage risk is higher (I had 2 and the risk increases as one ages)

 

[Vic_Taltrees_UK]

I’m single and squeamish but on the other hand so many people I’ve known have told me so many things, I’ve got very sharp views.

I see the point globally because I’m not coming from “my” position.

You’re all right and it is always good to frequently re-remind each other to forget the many false dichotomies.

One of the worst is when people whose business it isn’t, try to convince couples who are using NFP at all that they are obviously using it out of false motives. I say give them a break and always assume that a couple has got grave reasons to do what ever they are doing.

We’re meant to tick the way we’re meant to tick, one day we’ll be amazingly thoughtful, another day a little less so. But is our heart right?

Catholicism is not an excuse to manipulate other people’s consciences, but some priests do it, some lay people do it, some bossy grandstanding bishops do it so I’m told.

Openness to life sometimes means having lonely single people round for Bible studies and taking them for a walk. Whether you are a childless couple or a family without number. If practical and if it’s to your taste! My friends include both and all are equal good company.

(There are far less strict rules to real Catholicism than is usually believed, merely sound principles. And you don’t need a priest’s permission to hold a Bible study at home.)

Quiverful means the same as crown, credentials, and the profitably traded talents. Pressed down and running over. Sons, sisters and mothers hundredfold with persecutions. Did you give your life somehow to mentor some other people in their lay (non-liturgical) ministries? That is even more important than the literal meaning. At the same time you are probably training your children to be like this, and to mentor their peers in doing likewise, so there’s a point in it all whatever you do.

Jesus is going to ask us whether we stunted the growth of the widows and orphans, whether we stood by while the institutional hierarchy put down the shy and the “vulnerable”.

 

[Vic_Taltrees_UK]

Pressure sometimes gets applied very subtly. That exceptionally respectable couple, the jovial bishop (the people you automatically look up to) over-emphasise the gravity of grave reasons ever so slightly. Maybe it’s an unconscious habit they are falling into.

 

[bitterhope]

I would argue that the fact that one spouse does not want a new baby could be a “serious reason” for the other spouse to delay until the unwilling spouse warms up to the idea, even if the unwilling spouse does not have a “serious reason” himself or herself.

I also think that there is an issue of conscience in play. If the unwilling spouse is unwilling because he or she believes that having a new pregnancy and new baby would substantially harm their family, I think that might be a case where the primacy of conscience kicks in.

Then you should realize the majority of people, including apparently many in the clergy, would not agree with you and would find that a “selfish denial of spousal intimacy” to directly quote the priests we have been working with. The priests all stressed the importance of working together and never making unilateral decisions regarding the use of NFP, abstaining, or anything else involving the marital debt.

 

[Xantippe]

Then you should realize the majority of people, including apparently many in the clergy, would not agree with you and would find that a “selfish denial of spousal intimacy” to directly quote the priests we have been working with. The priests all stressed the importance of working together and never making unilateral decisions regarding the use of NFP, abstaining, or anything else involving the marital debt.

Ah, but I’m talking about it from the point of the view of the willing spouse dealing with an unwilling spouse, rather than from the point of view of the unwilling spouse.

Is it wise to twist the arm of one’s unwilling spouse if the unwilling spouse fears another pregnancy and having another child? Why not deal with their fear first, rather than just guilting them into another child? I would argue that the fear alone is a serious reason.

Also, maybe the unwilling spouse does have well-founded concerns about the effect that another pregnancy and baby will have on the general welfare of the family (perhaps due to previous experience)? Just because Spouse A and assorted clergy see no reason not to have more children does not mean that Spouse B sees exactly the same things.

If a spouse is completely against the idea of having more children, I think that deserves at least as much respect as their opinions in other areas of family life. (And I am fairly consistent about believing that in any major new venture, there ought to be unity and agreement between the spouses.)

Also, one of the things that my husband and I have learned the last few years is that it is possible to be right about something purely intuitively, even if one isn’t able to immediately muster an argument. The answer often comes pretty reflexively, while the supporting arguments may take much longer to materialize, even if it’s the right answer.

 

[Xantippe]

I feel like well-founded fear does not get enough respect in these discussions.

We think of fear as being irrational, but is that necessarily the case? If one has had a series of sufficiently bad events, fear may actually be entirely rational and reasonable.

I know, for instance, that my husband is (totally rationally) terrified of me going through another pregnancy because of how the last two went (late miscarriage followed by depression and then very scary and complicated successful pregnancy with my husband taking over 95% of home responsibilities). I’m not as scared as he is of another pregnancy, but I understand his concern. In our particular case, I feel like it would even be uncharitable to put him through that again on purpose.

 

[jmjZelie]

This thread has strayed so far from its original question I cannot even make heads or tails of the conversation anymore.

I am sorry that I used the term providentialist. I used it in the sense of the Catholic spiritual classic book “Abandonment to Divine Providence”. In that sense, it is wholly Catholic and the perspective applies to every aspect of one’s life.

I noticed a hint of some posters battling against what they perceive as a holiness contest.

When a person says “I am choosing to trust God and seek His will and pray that God will help me to grow in holiness through all of this” or some similar statement, this is not a comparison statement. We are all called to grow in holiness and trust in God. But the particular form that it takes in each person’s life is necessarily different. There is no need to prove one’s credentials, or to tear down another person’s path as somehow not a path to holiness just because your own path looks different.

I find it troubling that Catholic women (which is what we all are, yes?) cannot discuss prudential matters and holiness without strife. I asked some basic questions and perhaps I used some wrong words inadvertently (not knowing the backstory or the historical implications of certain phrases) and instead of being told “no that is not the term you are looking for because another philosophical movement has used that to cover their spiritually abusive methods”, it is assumed that I am here to promote an ideology or a philosophy or start a holiness contest. None of which is true.

Here is the real deal:
I am a Catholic convert of only 6 years.
I am already a mother of a larger family than anyone else in my family of origin, and any of my previous social circles.
I moved 5000 miles away from anyone I ever knew, and am still struggling to build up a social network in our new city. It is happening, just slowly.
I do not currently have any close Catholic friends who do not use contraception.
I do not have any Catholic family.
I have been getting pressure (some subtle and some overt) to stop having children.
I have no relationship with my mother to speak of. I text with her and talk on the phone only occasionally. But everyone who knows us says it has always been more like me as the mother and her as the child. We were previously No Contact, so I haven’t seen her in years.
I do not have a close relationship with my mother in law, at least not where I would discuss things like libido and family planning and theology. I am married to her son and she is not Catholic anyway.
Both my mother and my MIL had hysterectomies before they reached my current age, which is middle-late 30s.

I am lonely.
I am stressed out.
I needed help to understand these issues, because everyone else would just tell me I am nuts for not getting a tubal ligation or sending my wonderful husband for a vasectomy. All of which is horrifying to me.
I understand prayer is important and I am not neglecting that. but I was hoping to hear from other Catholics who have been faced with similar decisions and how they managed them.

 

[MomaMary8]

I’m the type that I can (or could) conceive very easily. In one year I had 2 miscarriages, and then conceived and gave birth to my youngest, who was a preemie.

I learned Creighton in my early forties.

Sure. My son was born right when I was almost 40. The two miscarriages I was almost 39.

I’m 46. And a half.

The two miscarriages were very early, and my doctor thought that they were due to genetic problems that were not compatible with life. It could be. It could have also been due to poor progesterone production. I did have short post peaks even when I was taking progesterone.

The preemie was born due to a partial placental abruption. He was my hardest pregnancy. Occasional bed rest, gestational diabetes, episodes of spotting. My doctor didn’t attribute it to my age though, just the positioning of the placenta.

We’ve avoided because having a preemie increases ones risk for another preemie. Mine was fairly little (28 weeks). Also my miscarriage risk is higher (I had 2 and the risk increases as one ages)

Hey don’t blush! You’re just a few months older than me…but you’re still older!

I had 4 babies in my 20’s, 4 babies + one miscarriage in my 30’s, 2 babies, 1 miscarriage & 1 stillborn in my 40’s. My dr only mentioned the chromosomal issue incompatible with life with my last loss (the still born.). We are still waiting to hear the results on that, though. I’m 1 month postpartum and wondering if I’ll ever be able to conceive again (part of the reason for all my questions of you!). As I read your posts, it sounds like your fertility declined faster than mine. Do you still practice NFP? Or do you think your fertile days are done?

 

[MomaMary8]

This thread has strayed so far from its original question I cannot even make heads or tails of the conversation anymore.

I am sorry that I used the term providentialist. I used it in the sense of the Catholic spiritual classic book “Abandonment to Divine Providence”. In that sense, it is wholly Catholic and the perspective applies to every aspect of one’s life.

I noticed a hint of some posters battling against what they perceive as a holiness contest.

When a person says “I am choosing to trust God and seek His will and pray that God will help me to grow in holiness through all of this” or some similar statement, this is not a comparison statement. We are all called to grow in holiness and trust in God. But the particular form that it takes in each person’s life is necessarily different. There is no need to prove one’s credentials, or to tear down another person’s path as somehow not a path to holiness just because your own path looks different.

I find it troubling that Catholic women (which is what we all are, yes?) cannot discuss prudential matters and holiness without strife. I asked some basic questions and perhaps I used some wrong words inadvertently (not knowing the backstory or the historical implications of certain phrases) and instead of being told “no that is not the term you are looking for because another philosophical movement has used that to cover their spiritually abusive methods”, it is assumed that I am here to promote an ideology or a philosophy or start a holiness contest. None of which is true.

Here is the real deal:
I am a Catholic convert of only 6 years.
I am already a mother of a larger family than anyone else in my family of origin, and any of my previous social circles.
I moved 5000 miles away from anyone I ever knew, and am still struggling to build up a social network in our new city. It is happening, just slowly.
I do not currently have any close Catholic friends who do not use contraception.
I do not have any Catholic family.
I have been getting pressure (some subtle and some overt) to stop having children.
I have no relationship with my mother to speak of. I text with her and talk on the phone only occasionally. But everyone who knows us says it has always been more like me as the mother and her as the child. We were previously No Contact, so I haven’t seen her in years.
I do not have a close relationship with my mother in law, at least not where I would discuss things like libido and family planning and theology. I am married to her son and she is not Catholic anyway.
Both my mother and my MIL had hysterectomies before they reached my current age, which is middle-late 30s.

I am lonely.
I am stressed out.
I needed help to understand these issues, because everyone else would just tell me I am nuts for not getting a tubal ligation or sending my wonderful husband for a vasectomy. All of which is horrifying to me.
I understand prayer is important and I am not neglecting that. but I was hoping to hear from other Catholics who have been faced with similar decisions and how they managed them.

:hug1:

I’m so sorry. It can be lonely, very lonely, to be a large family. I get that. Life is geared for smaller families (family packs? Ha! They never are enough ) We have to have some tough skin, spines of steal and lots of prayers to get through it on many days. I think the hardest part is the facade we have to create, because if we are seen to have a bad day or month or year, many will blame it on our family size. So we are left wondering if they are right, did we have too many kids? Or are we just having a rough time in life. Do we hide our difficulties to avoid the criticism?
I try to joyfully accept my hardships. I cry with a smile. Everyone goes through tough times, but it’s not always because of the kids.

I’m sorry you are going through this. I’ll try to be more helpful.

 

[Rob_s_Wife]

**I’m unsure how to respond or if my response is one you are looking for, but oh well. Here goes.

Dh and I do not use NFP. However twice we did completely do without sexual intimacy for extend time for reasons we obviously felt were of dire importance to my health. We abstained for a year after our 9th was born and nearly that long after our 10th. They were both exceptionally difficult deliveries and it was extremely important to us that I get some healing. And honestly the deliveries were traumatic enough to block desires anyways.
There were some minor abstaining over the years for various little things. Such as not having relations for a few weeks to be sure I was not pregnant for an X-ray or some such brief needs. (ETA for clarification. We did not use NFP during these times. We just didn’t have sex at all. No charting or whatever. For us, we felt it was serious enough to not take ANY risk.)

However we have never purposely had a large family. I think it is easy to presume it but really it takes a tremendous amount of perfect aligning circumstances to have a large family and even more so for a very large family.

As for horror stories of sadness and woe about large families. I have yet to hear of one that actually had much to do with family size. I know a lot more parents that let their eldest child practically raise the youngest who only have 2-3 kids. Same for mothers who have career regrets or fathers who let work interfer with fatherhood or couples who seem to view their family as kids vs marriage with the marriage always losing. It seems like everyone makes more money than we do and yet claim they can’t afford their 1-3 kids.

We don’t have those attitudes about those issues, which is likely why it doesn’t seem to be an issue to us.

eta2 ugh. I hadn’t read other comments before replying. Probably shouldn’t have bothered replying.**

 

[jmjZelie]

:hug1:

I’m so sorry. It can be lonely, very lonely, to be a large family. I get that. Life is geared for smaller families (family packs? Ha! They never are enough ) We have to have some tough skin, spines of steal and lots of prayers to get through it on many days. I think the hardest part is the facade we have to create, because if we are seen to have a bad day or month or year, many will blame it on our family size. So we are left wondering if they are right, did we have too many kids? Or are we just having a rough time in life. Do we hide our difficulties to avoid the criticism?
I try to joyfully accept my hardships. I cry with a smile. Everyone goes through tough times, but it’s not always because of the kids.

I’m sorry you are going through this. I’ll try to be more helpful.

Yes! Thank you. And I am smiling through my tears at your message. Thank you.

 

[jmjZelie]

**im unsure how to respond or if my response is one you are looking for, but oh well. Here goes.

Dh and I do not use NFP. However twice we did completely do without sexual intimacy for extend time for reasons we obviously felt were of dire importance to my health. We abstained for a year after our 9th was born and nearly that long after our 10th. They were both exceptionally difficult deliveries and it was extremely important to us that I get some healing. And honestly the deliveries were traumatic enough to block desires anyways.
There were some minor abstaining over the years for various little things. Such as not having relations for a few weeks to be sure I was not pregnant for an X-ray or some such brief needs. (ETA for clarification. We did not use NFP during these times. We just didn’t have sex at all. No charting or whatever. For us, we felt it was serious enough to not take ANY risk.)

However we have never purposely had a large family. I think it is easy to presume it but really it takes a tremendous amount of perfect aligning circumstances to have a large family and even more so for a very large family.

As for horror stories of sadness and woe about large families. I have yet to hear of one that actually had much to do with family size. I know a lot more parents that let their eldest child practically raise the youngest who only have 2-3 kids. Same for mothers who have career regrets or fathers who let work interfer with fatherhood or couples who seem to view their family as kids vs marriage with the marriage always losing. It seems like everyone makes more money than we do and yet claim they can’t afford their 1-3 kids.

We don’t have those attitudes about those issues, which is likely why it doesn’t seem to be an issue to us.**

Thank you

Again, I see how my use of the wrong words was preventing me from getting the feedback I needed. When I said “on purpose” I simply meant deciding to accept being very fertile and letting nature take its course. Then when people ask us if a baby was planned (inevitably people do ask) I would honestly say that the baby (babies, all of them) for very much invited and welcome and loved. That is all I meant by “purpose”. I don’t think I quite understand still, what other implications are perceived by the moms here when they read the words “on purpose”. For me personally, it all boils down to “not taking any measures to avoid pregnancy” = “trying to achieve”. In the slightly more than a decade of childbearing (almost a dozen years now actually), I have conceived seven times.

For us, we aren’t charting. It is easy enough to monitor my fertility signs and know what is going on without charting for my own purposes. I have a hard time, psychologically accepting writing down my fertility signs every day and keeping a record of it. I would do it if necessary but right now I don’t see a need. Either way, if I don’t want to get pregnant, then abstinence it is, charting or not.

When I was 12, my dad explained birth control to me. I was upset and said that I wanted to have as many children as God sent to me. He was horrified by that and said that my future husband wouldn’t allow it. Then, when my oldest was born, I was so amazed by the miracle of procreation that I said I always wanted to have babies. And this year, the idea that my baby might be my last baby has made me so sad. And now my husband is telling me that my father was wrong and that if we want to just have babies then we will just have babies.

So I think a huge part of me starting this thread is to find other people who have decided to just have babies. Without guilt or fear. Well perhaps sometimes despite fears, but certainly without guilt.

 

[gardenswithkids]

**I’m unsure how to respond or if my response is one you are looking for, but oh well. Here goes.

Dh and I do not use NFP. However twice we did completely do without sexual intimacy for extend time for reasons we obviously felt were of dire importance to my health. We abstained for a year after our 9th was born and nearly that long after our 10th. They were both exceptionally difficult deliveries and it was extremely important to us that I get some healing. And honestly the deliveries were traumatic enough to block desires anyways.
There were some minor abstaining over the years for various little things. Such as not having relations for a few weeks to be sure I was not pregnant for an X-ray or some such brief needs. (ETA for clarification. We did not use NFP during these times. We just didn’t have sex at all. No charting or whatever. For us, we felt it was serious enough to not take ANY risk.)

However we have never purposely had a large family. I think it is easy to presume it but really it takes a tremendous amount of perfect aligning circumstances to have a large family and even more so for a very large family.

As for horror stories of sadness and woe about large families. I have yet to hear of one that actually had much to do with family size. I know a lot more parents that let their eldest child practically raise the youngest who only have 2-3 kids. Same for mothers who have career regrets or fathers who let work interfer with fatherhood or couples who seem to view their family as kids vs marriage with the marriage always losing. It seems like everyone makes more money than we do and yet claim they can’t afford their 1-3 kids.

We don’t have those attitudes about those issues, which is likely why it doesn’t seem to be an issue to us.

eta2 ugh. I hadn’t read other comments before replying. Probably shouldn’t have bothered replying.**

I’m glad you did. It’s good to “read” you again.