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babochka
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The Greek refers to the Greek Rite, or Byzantine Rite. It is the Rite of the Church of Constantinople.
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snarflemike
Guest
Amen to this! I think bilingual Masses are the worst of all possible worlds, and, as you say, a perfect opportunity to use Latin instead. Bilingual Masses are actually divisive, IMO, while Latin is unifying. Bilingual Masses go against the very reasoning for saying the Mass in the vernacular.
EDIT: I’ll repeat the story I was told by a priest who took some young people (Americans) to a World Youth Day… Some of the liturgies were in Latin, and the Americans were embarrassed because they were the only ones who could not participate.
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babochka
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I was once surprised and grateful for a bilingual Mass in Puerto Rico. I speak Spanish well enough to follow the Mass, especially if I have a Misalette, but I was a bit lost during the homily. It was Easter Sunday and I was surprised and grateful when the deacon came up to the pulpit after the priest was finished with his homily. He briefly explained that he was going to give a short homily in English because he noticed that there were a lot of tourists in the congregation. It was a short homily, only about 5 minutes, but I very much appreciated the gesture.
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phil19034
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Yeah, that’s different. That’s not what I meant by bilingual mass.phil19034:
I was once surprised and grateful for a bilingual Mass in Puerto Rico. I speak Spanish well enough to follow the Mass, especially if I have a Misalette, but I was a bit lost during the homily. It was Easter Sunday and I was surprised and grateful when the deacon came up to the pulpit after the priest was finished with his homily. He briefly explained that he was going to give a short homily in English because he noticed that there were a lot of tourists in the congregation. It was a short homily, only about 5 minutes, but I very much appreciated the gesture.
I mean when they switch languages for the prayers and hymns during the mass.
I don’t mean when they do the homily or readings in 2 languages
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babochka
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A Mass that incorporates both Latin and the vernacular is a bilingual Mass.
Most of my experience with using more than one language in church is not with the Latin Rite, but with various Eastern Rites. On Pascha, the beginning of the Gospel of John is read in as many languages as we can muster. My priest usually does four languages. It is pretty normal to hear some Slavonic and some English in many Ruthenian parishes. Likewise, it is common to hear a mix of Aramaic/Assyrian, Arabic and English in Melkite, Maronite and Chaldean parishes in the US. It meets the needs of mixed congregations of immigrants and American-born.
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snarflemike
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I’m pretty sure everybody understands the normal meaning of a “bilingual” Mass. Change my mind.
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phil19034
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I will give you an example of what’s we are suggesting.snarflemike:
A Mass that incorporates both Latin and the vernacular is a bilingual Mass.
Most of my experience with using more than one language in church is not with the Latin Rite, but with various Eastern Rites. On Pascha, the beginning of the Gospel of John is read in as many languages as we can muster. My priest usually does four languages. It is pretty normal to hear some Slavonic and some English in many Ruthenian parishes. Likewise, it is common to hear a mix of Aramaic/Assyrian, Arabic and English in Melkite, Maronite and Chaldean parishes in the US. It meets the needs of mixed congregations of immigrants and American-born.
When the World Meeting of Families was in Philadelphia, they did this awesomely
The cannon of the Mass was in Latin, while the 1st reading was in Spanish, 2nd reading in Vietnamese, and Gospel in English. Then, Pope Francis gave his Homily in Spanish with English translations. Then the prayers of the faithful rotated between English, Spanish and Vietnamese. Everything else was in Latin except the Psalms, which rotated between the three languages too.
I thought it was very well done. It recognized the three different languages- but then brought us all together by using Latin for the Canon, the Gloria, Santos, Agnus Dei, etc
It was beautiful
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babochka
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That sounds very well done and beautiful.babochka:
I will give you an example of what’s we are suggesting.snarflemike:
A Mass that incorporates both Latin and the vernacular is a bilingual Mass.
Most of my experience with using more than one language in church is not with the Latin Rite, but with various Eastern Rites. On Pascha, the beginning of the Gospel of John is read in as many languages as we can muster. My priest usually does four languages. It is pretty normal to hear some Slavonic and some English in many Ruthenian parishes. Likewise, it is common to hear a mix of Aramaic/Assyrian, Arabic and English in Melkite, Maronite and Chaldean parishes in the US. It meets the needs of mixed congregations of immigrants and American-born.
When the World Meeting of Families was in Philadelphia, they did this awesomely
The cannon of the Mass was in Latin, while the 1st reading was in Spanish, 2nd reading in Vietnamese, and Gospel in English. Then, Pope Francis gave his Homily in Spanish with English translations. Then the prayers of the faithful rotated between English, Spanish and Vietnamese. Everything else was in Latin except the Psalms, which rotated between the three languages too.
I thought it was very well done. It recognized the three different languages- but then brought us all together by using Latin for the Canon, the Gloria, Santos, Agnus Dei, etc
It was beautiful
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ProVobis
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That would be tri-vernacular in my book. Whatever Latin there is, it’s the default.
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HeDa
Guest
That is usually how it is done when there are lots of people from all over the world present like when the pope is celebrating Mass.
When there is an ordination to the deaconate or priesthood in one of the Eastern churches, outside their ordinary territory, and the local bishop (Latin rite) is going to be present as well as the Eastern rite bishop, there have been occasions where the deacon/priest to be ordained, has had to translate parts or the whole liturgy to the official language of the country if it hasn’t been done before. Usually they are the best as they know both languages and then the translation takes a longer trip to the Vatican and the Eastern rite patriark for approval.
When there is an ordination to the deaconate or priesthood in one of the Eastern churches, outside their ordinary territory, and the local bishop (Latin rite) is going to be present as well as the Eastern rite bishop, there have been occasions where the deacon/priest to be ordained, has had to translate parts or the whole liturgy to the official language of the country if it hasn’t been done before. Usually they are the best as they know both languages and then the translation takes a longer trip to the Vatican and the Eastern rite patriark for approval.
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