Latin Mass at my Church in TX!

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As someone who prefers the traditional form of mass, I can offer a few viewpoints. I don’t go to the traditional mass to pray in Latin. I learn to pray in Latin so that I can fully understand the traditional mass. The traditional, gregorian, extraordinary form, whatever term you choose was developed organically over the centuries. The liturgy was originally the apostles praying at synagogue and then going to someones house and celebrating the eucharist. Eventually the Christians were cast off by their Jewish brethren, and slowly but steadily the two aspects of the liturgy were put together, and in the–correct me if I’m wrong–third century or so we began to see liturgy as we know it today. Now the liturgy developed in different ways at different places at times, but the Roman Rite eventually became the form of mass celebrated by the Western Church. This liturgy did grow and change over time, even up until the 1960s, but these changes were very small and were part of an organic system of growth and restructuring. Never, until after Vatican II, in the history of the Church had a liturgical tradition been completely scrapped and replaced with something “fresh.” (We’ll leave the latinization of other liturgies to a different thread and someone more knowledgeable than myself). While containing some of the substance of the old rite, the new rite is unarguably completely different from the liturgy that evolved organically over the two thousand year history of the Church. This is why I prefer the old liturgy. When I go to the new mass I miss the “introibo ad altare dei,” the old confiteor with the whole list of saints, the ad orientem posture, the kneeling communion–all of the things that are special about the liturgy of the latin church. I wouldn’t mind if, say, they added a new testament reading to the ancient rite. I wouldn’t mind if they made some provision for communion under both species. I wouldn’t mind small, organic changes to the ancient liturgy. I wouldn’t even mind if it were allowed to be celebrated in the vernacular (though I do really enjoy the latin). My attachment to the old mass is based solely on the fact that it is the product of centuries of organic growth, starting on holy thursday and going on to the modern age.
 
I told you exactly why I am excited about the Latin Mass. If your ancestors were Catholics, they presumably were aware of the meaning of the mass, even though it was in Latin. If there were bits they did not understand, they also had translations–which is exactly what I have. I credit them with enough intelligence to refrain from praying prayers they did not understand.

I answered your question, even though it had nothing to do with my original post. If you don’t want to go to a Latin Mass because you don’t understand why “certain people” are drawn to it, then I suggest you don’t go.

If you enjoy argument for the sake of argument, you might like the political forums.
 
Charlemagne_II said:
Corki,

So, as they say here in TX, that dog won’t hunt.

In any case, I’m still hunting for a reason why the Mass in a language you don’t understand is a better Mass than the one in the language you do understand.

I’m still hunting for a reason why Jesus most likely instituted the Mass in Aramaic, rather than Latin, the language of the pagans.👍
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CM2

Because if we are supposed to be the Universal Church, the “thing” that unites all of us, the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, must be celebrated the same way, whether in Texas, Maryland, or Timbuctoo. It should be understandable to anyone from anywhere. Some of the Ordinary Form Masses have been, shall we say, innovative and divisive.
 
I love St. Mary’s. My girlfriend’s family is from Brenham and after my conversion it was one of the first churches that I attended. It is beautiful. I went to my first Latin Mass this past weekend in San Antonio. While I was behind some of the time, I felt like (after a few weeks) I would be even closer to the Mass. I think I may buy a book on the Mass and continue to attend Latin services.

Good to know there is a Latin service when I meet my girlfriend in her hometown or go see her parents.

This is awesome news.
 
harrisunt said:
I love St. Mary’s. My girlfriend’s family is from Brenham and after my conversion it was one of the first churches that I attended. It is beautiful. I went to my first Latin Mass this past weekend in San Antonio. While I was behind some of the time, I felt like (after a few weeks) I would be even closer to the Mass. I think I may buy a book on the Mass and continue to attend Latin services.

Good to know there is a Latin service when I meet my girlfriend in her hometown or go see her parents.

This is awesome news.
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Please come and visit when you can. Our parish is honored to have been chosen as host church in our deanery. Fortunately, our priest plans to give those of us who are new to the Latin Mass some much-needed instruction before the first Sunday in Advent. Can’t wait! 🙂
 
udoc89 said:
Please come and visit when you can. Our parish is honored to have been chosen as host church in our deanery. Fortunately, our priest plans to give those of us who are new to the Latin Mass some much-needed instruction before the first Sunday in Advent. Can’t wait! 🙂
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I will when I can. It’s such a beautiful church. When we get married, St. Mary’s would be my first choice.
 
…the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, must be celebrated the same way, whether in Texas, Maryland, or Timbuctoo.It should be understandable to anyone from anywhere.

So everyone the world over is supposed to understand Latin?

Isn’t it more likely everyone the world over understands English?
 
<> I was away from the Catholic church for 20+ years and returned in 2004 by God’s kindness to me. I was in non-denominational christian churches while I was away and learned very much about the Bible during those times. I am so grateful to God for bringing me back into the fullness of the faith. It is truly an experience of “coming home.” That is what the Latin Mass is also. An “experience” of coming home. I think the reason there has been so much back and forth on this topic in this thread is that the conversation is on different levels. There is the intellectual, nuts-and-bolts, factual, even sincere question (my paraphrase): What’s so hot about the Latin Mass? But the answers do not satisfy because the Latin Mass is so much more than the intellectual response of the words in Latin, or the direction of the altar, or the ringing of the bells etc.
<> When I was a kid, we had the Latin Mass. I can remember it from before I could read. It was HOLY. I remember the holiness of the Mass. We were part of a time in our nation’s history that was purer than we live in now. Lines were clearer. Good and bad were clearer. We prayed in public as well as Catholic schools. Kids from the public school walked over to my school for CCD on Wednesday afternoons. Morality was clearer. The ten commandments were on the walls of public schools.
<> My point is the answer you seek seems to be head knowledge as to why the Latin Mass has merit. When I came to Holy Name of Jesus Church for my first Mass in many years, I felt like a child who was lost and has found her way home. When during the Mass they sang certain portions in Latin, like the Agnus Dei, tears welled up in my eyes and there was an emotional component that I had not anticipated. And that was just a brief tapping into the Latin during a regular Mass, non-Latin rite.
<> So to understand, one may need to experience the Latin Mass and perhaps the Lord will bring you into that quality of experience that so many of us remember. Or maybe you may not ever experience the uniqueness of the Latin Mass in a positive way. That’s ok. But for those of us who the Lord has blessed in this way the Latin Mass is a whole lot of physical, spiritual, emotional event and in ways I cannot articulate clearly, a wonderful experience. AND it has the sanction of our Roman Catholic Church. We are not going against our Church to participate in this rich experience. It is with the blessing and the sanction of the Holy Father and the Church. I am so glad for those folks in Texas and elsewhere who are able to experience it and hope to be able to do so in my lifetime again soon I hope.
<> And yes, English, today, is spoken almost universally. Not so when I was a kid. English is much more prevalent now than when I was young. When I was young the Mass was “universally” in Latin. If our soldiers went overseas and attended Mass it had the familiarity of home when it was heard in Latin. Or if individuals went overseas, hearing the Mass in Latin was another way of connecting in a way that was familiar.
<> So, I don’t know if this has helped or not but I wanted to try to give my perspective. Mass is truly a holy experience whether in Latin or the vernacular of the people. That is the truth. For some of us, the experience of hearing it in Latin brings us into a keener awareness of that more quickly than the Mass in the vernacular. The priest officiating at the Mass no longer is representing himself, he represents Christ himself. In fact I think the teaching is that he truly becomes Christ during the Mass. The Mass is a holy miraculous experience every time Mass is said. When we receive Holy Eucharist we are reminded that Jesus gave His life so we could live. He consented to be IN us! The miracle of the Mass is certainly something to dwell upon. I too love the Latin Mass and am delighted that our Holy Father has made this blessing available to us again. Praise the Lord and may you find your peace in Jesus. God bless you.
Gail from Florida
 
Charlemagne_II said:
Still no answer. I guess that’s going to be *the *answer.
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The answer is very simple, and it has already been provided.

The principal benefit of Latin in the liturgy is that it serves to “set apart” the liturgical action from everyday life. It emphasizes the unique holiness and the mystery of the liturgy by placing a sort of “verbal veil” over the sacred action.

Latin is used in the liturgy for the same reason that incense, bells, beautiful vestments, and other apparently “superflous” elements are used. The priest could easily come out and say Mass in a t-shirt on someone’s kitchen table using a paper cup and a plastic plate. However, the mystery of the Mass would only be obscured by this simplicity. The holiness of the Sacrifice and the sacramental nature of the action would not be evident.

The argument that the liturgy should be celebrated exactly as Christ celebrated it is a form of antiquarianism which divorces us from our tradition. It assumes that the Church of the past 2000 years is a merely human creation, and that the organically developed liturgy of the Ages has been left unguided by the Holy Ghost and carries with it no doctrinal authority and commands no respect. It’s not a Catholic position.
 
Thank you Dauphin for explaining that so clearly. I appreciate it.
Gail from Florida
 
Charlemagne_II said:
JD

*I suggest skimming through this ‘primer’ of why Novus Ordo attendees make the switch to the Tridentine Mass. *

I read this website and found nothing in it to answer my question about why a Mass celebrated in a language we do not understand … Latin … is more spiritually nurturing than a Mass in the language we do understand … our own. …

So I am still left with no answer to my question. And it begins to look as though no Latinist will ever try to offer one … or at least offer one that makes the least bit of sense.

Still waiting: how is celebrating a Mass in a language we do not understand “objectively superior” to celebrating the Mass in a language we *do *understand?
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Ans. I do understand the Latin in the parts that are the same for all masses. In the other parts, the translation is in the missal, just as the readings are in the vernacular booklet.
Ans. Lots of people who know how to judge art agree that the latin mass is more beautiful and uplifting.
Ans. You can go to a latin mass any where in the world and feel at home because it is the same everywhere.
Ans. To some people, knowing that the church has been saying these prayers in these words for centuries, many times by famous and favorite saints, brings a feeling of togetherness which expresses the mystical body and communion of saints.
Ans. Why do some people enjoy spaghetti better than pizza when they both fill you up? They just do that’s all.

Ans. People who prefer the vernacular mass are well catered too and people who prefer the latin mass ,which has the same legitimacy,have the same right of access to the style THEY prefer. It’s a choice which shouldn’t bother either group.
 
As a founding member of the Brazos Valley Schola Cantorum, I’m very excited about this development. Sadly, the priests up here in College Station are not interested in a TLM right now, so the Schola has been the main exposure to traditional liturgy for this highly conservative community. I think it was very generous for the PV at St. Mary’s to say the EF Mass. He’s fresh out of seminary, too (interesting). I think anyone within an hour of this parish should show their support because he and his pastor are sticking their necks out a little. They could easily run into problems.

I will be attending the TLM at St. Mary’s on the First Sunday of Advent with my wife and children. I may talk to Fr. Ivey about the Schola coming to visit. We do serve the Brazos Valley Deanery, so Brenham is in our “territory”.
 
Please speak to him! It would be delightful to have your group participate at St. Mary’s.
 
It was a beautiful Mass. I took my wife and little boys. I wrote Fr. Ivey thanking him for the Mass, and extended an invitation to have the schola sing. I hope he replies. I talked to our director today, and we will see how things go.
 
It was, indeed! I love our priests for offering this to us. I looked up your website–hope Father Ivey says yes to your invitation to sing! I can’t imagine that he would not.
 
I’m so envious, man! Awesome! I don’t think the priests at our parish even know Latin! LOL…😃

I’d give anything to have a nice Latin Mass complete with incense, priest facing the altar, and everything old school. I’ve grown up in Vatican II and I’m sure fried on the koombaya guitar-strumming antics!
 
In response to why one would want to worship in Latin rather than one’s own language, here are my own reasons:
  • Latin is lovely. Pronunciation quibbles aside, it is easy to say and to sing.
  • Latin is a dead language. It does not change. Its meanings do not “morph” into something else through usage.
  • Latin has been the language of the Church for multiple centuries. The Mass is written in Latin. All vernacular versions are translations, so there is always a chance of slight variance from the original meaning. I prefer to use the original language so I can appreciate the original meaning.
  • In these days of diverse populations, I can worship in Latin with any other Catholic from any culture who speaks any language. I might not be able to even ask them for a drink of water outside of Mass without hand signals or a translator, but we can pray together. I personally find it to be a beautiful and moving experience.
 
gurneyhalleck1 said:
I’m so envious, man! Awesome! I don’t think the priests at our parish even know Latin! LOL…😃

I’d give anything to have a nice Latin Mass complete with incense, priest facing the altar, and everything old school. I’ve grown up in Vatican II and I’m sure fried on the koombaya guitar-strumming antics!
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Well, gurneyhalleck1, you’re a little far away for me to invite you to join us for the Latin Mass this Sunday, but you have a standing invitation if you’re ever out this way. As an added inducement, Brenham is the “ice cream capital” of Texas. 🙂
 
*]In these days of diverse populations, I can worship in Latin with any other Catholic from any culture who speaks any language. I might not be able to even ask them for a drink of water outside of Mass without hand signals or a translator, but we can pray together. I personally find it to be a beautiful and moving experience.

I agree with you wholeheartedly, PerenniallyRC!
 
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