Latin Mass Invalid???

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A priest at my son’s high school told him that a Latin Rite Mass offered at a local church was not a valid Masss for anyone not raised in the “old way”, by which I take he meant pre Vatican II. Has anyone heard such a thing? Is there some reason he would want to discourage high school students from attending a Latin Mass?
 
I thought that a Tridentine Mass would still be valid, though illicit if done without permission from proper authority.

By the way, Latin Rite would refer to our Mass now, the Novus Ordo Mass, not just the Tridentine Rite. Their are the Eastern Rites, and the Latin Rite.
 
As far as I know, the Latin Mass IS valid and anyone can go, regardless of whether or not they were raised in the old way(I’ve never been able to attend one, BTW). I do know there is a schismatic group called the SSPX (Society of St. Pius X) that celebrates the Latin Mass, but they were excommunicated by Pope John Paul II, and that their Masses are not considered valid as far as Sunday obligation is concerned. As far as this priest is concerned, he may be a liberal type who has a thing against traditionalists.
 
This is the steryotipical approach of liberal NOers. I would reccommend researching the Church’s offical documents on SSPX. The last I heard, Rome does accept the SSPX as valid and that by attending their Masses, one fulfills his Sunday obligation.
 
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stretch:
A priest at my son’s high school told him that a Latin Rite Mass offered at a local church was not a valid Masss for anyone not raised in the “old way”, by which I take he meant pre Vatican II. Has anyone heard such a thing? Is there some reason he would want to discourage high school students from attending a Latin Mass?
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He would have good reason if the Latin Mass is an SSPX or some other disenting group who calls themselves Catholic. Who knows. Do you know if the mass is a TLM mass offered through the dioceses? That would be ok but the others are not.
 
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A priest at my son’s high school told him that a Latin Rite Mass offered at a local church was not a valid Masss for anyone not raised in the “old way”, by which I take he meant pre Vatican II. Has anyone heard such a thing? Is there some reason he would want to discourage high school students from attending a Latin Mass?
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In a recent article www.freep.com/news/religion/cath3_20040803.htm a Jesuit Priest tried to make the point that “When the pope authorized bishops to allow this mass in 1984, the idea was that this was a pastoral response to older people who still are so attached to this older mass that they need it,” “The idea was never to create a new desire in people for this mass.” It was the first I’d heard of this view, perhaps as the TLM is growing this is the resistance that is mounting.
 
A mass is invalid if there are problems with the form, matter, and/or intent. There is nothing inherently invalid about the mass that dates back to St. Gregory, obviously! 🤓 Doesn’t take a church scientist to get that far!

You can go to an SSPX chapel, as attendance there has not meant excommunication, according to Ratzinger (and couldn’t anyway, for reasons to do with the nature of “schism” and “excommunication”: e.g., there is no express wish to part from the Church, no subjective sin, etc.).

The traditional rite of Mass could never be abrogated anyway, because it would instantly become an immemorial custom: it is simply too integral to the Church. It has its own bulla, “Quo Primum”, which features very strong language. It developed naturally, over centuries. It embodies the Church’s holy response to the serious heresy of Protestantism: the Church’s responses are not random. We’re not going to decide that icons and statues are evil after all (well, actually!). Here is a good overall history of the mass.

I think many in the hierarchy today are uncertain of what to make of the problems of the Church, and try, to some extent in a knee-jerk fashion, to discourage people from going to the traditional Mass. Don’t worry about it. Just go to the traditional Mass, or encourage him to go. It really is much more reverent. Throughout the traditional mass the priest makes prayers that stress all the important things. Get a traditional missal (try Libers.com). And I don’t mean that there is nothing to worry about in the Church–there is! :yup:
 
I have read that the Bishop must approve of the Tridentine (Latin) Mass if it is said in his Dioceses. But to say that the Mass said in Latin is “invalid” : just because it is said in Latin is dubious.

That Priest who told the H.S. student that the Latin Mass was “invalid” most likely didn’t know Latin - didn’t want to be put to the test.

You all know that you can see the Latin Mass on EWTN ( Mother Angelica’s Channel). Certainly no one thinks that Mass is “invalid”.

Bill:)
 
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A priest at my son’s high school told him that a Latin Rite Mass offered at a local church was not a valid Masss for anyone not raised in the “old way”, by which I take he meant pre Vatican II. Has anyone heard such a thing? Is there some reason he would want to discourage high school students from attending a Latin Mass?
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This is a lie. The validity of the Mass is not solely dependent on the rite. (read Thomas Aquinas ) The intention of this priest is malicious. Pray for him. :gopray:
 
I have heard this argument before and the priest is confused.

When the documents allowing the Indult were released, there was a section that said that the Vatican was moved, in part, to act because of the attachment of many to the older form of Mass. This would refer to those who were raised in with the pre Vatican II form. This is, however, one of the reasons for the Indult, not a condition of the Indult. One an Indult is granted, anyone can attend.

As others have stated, you should make sure that the Mass is one that has received the Indult and not one offered by a group not in full communion with the Church. However, even those Masses (SSPX etc) are valid, even if offered illicitly.
 
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JCB:
This is a lie. The validity of the Mass is not solely dependent on the rite. (read Thomas Aquinas ) The intention of this priest is malicious. Pray for him. :gopray:
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Your stepping pretty far out there pointing that finger at a priest you do not know, nor do you know his reasons. Be careful you don’t poke yourself in the eye with the four fingers pointing back at yourself. :eek:
 
Can. 928 The eucharistic celebration is to be carried out either in the latin language or in another language, provided the liturgical texts have been lawfully approved.
 
Information and frequently asked questions about the Traditional Latin (Tridentine) Mass:

1.What is the Traditional Latin Mass?

The Holy Sacrifice of the Mass in the Traditional Latin Rite is that Mass which has sustained the WesternChurch for the last 1,500 years. It is the Mass, which has sustained saints and sinners, princes and peasants, crusaders and converts, monks and missionaries. It is the Mass that martyrs have died for. It is the Mass that ‘saintly heralds of the Gospel have carried almost to the entire world’ and the Mass form which 'innumerable holy men have abundantly nourished their piety towards God by its readings from Sacred Scripture or by its prayers, whose general arrangement goes back, in essence, to St. Gregory the Great (d.604) (Pope Paul VI, Apostolic Constitution, 1969).

The Traditional Latin mass is also called the Mass of the Roman Rite. After the Council of Trent Pope St Pius V issued the Bull Quo Primum Tempore (1570) which promulgated the Roman Mass now codified for the first time in the Church’s history. The Bull also guaranteed use of the Roman Rite in perpetuity, and confirmed the traditional rites of various religious orders where these had been in use for at least 200 years. Because of the codification following the Council of Trent, this Mass is sometimes called the Tridentine Mass, although this description is somewhat misleading given the rite extends back beyond Trent to the time of Gregory the Great.

Continued
 
  1. Is the Traditional Latin Mass permitted by the Pope?
Yes. The Traditional Latin Mass is established by immemorial custom (cf Catechism of the Catholic Church 1125). The Second Vatican Council declared “…the Holy MotherChurch holds all lawfully recognized rites to be of equal right and dignity; that she wishes to preserve them in the future and to foster them in every way” (Sacrosanctum Concilium Int. 4).

The new Missal in 1969 did not abrogate the traditional Latin rites of the Roman Church. In 1971 Pope Paul VI affirmed Cardinal Heenan’s provision of the Traditional Latin Mass in England and Wales. This was following the canonization of forty English and Welsh martyrs in October 1970, martyrs who died for that same Traditional Mass.

On 3 October 1984 the Sacred Congregation for Divine Worship issued “Quattuor abhinc annos,” in which Pope John Paul II urged all the Bishops of the Roman Rite throughout the world to provide for the celebration of the Traditional Latin Mass wherever there was some demand for it. In 1986 a Commission of Cardinals unanimously agreed that there should be a more generous provision of the traditional rite.

Finally, on 2 July 1988 Pope John Paul II promulgated the Apostolic Letter “Ecclesia Dei,” which recognizes the preference of any Catholic for the traditional liturgy as a “rightful aspiration.” In Ecclesia Dei, the Holy Father requires the Bishops to take all measures necessary to guarantee respect for these aspirations and for a wide and generous application of the directives already issued by the Apostolic See for the celebration of the Traditional Latin Mass.

Since 1988, a number of religious communities which use the traditional Latin rites exclusively have been erected (canonically recognized) by the Holy See. These include the Priestly Fraternity of St Peter, foundations of Benedictine monks and nuns at Le Barroux, the Dominican Fraternity of St Vincent Ferrer, the Society of St. John and the Institute of Christ the King, Sovereign Priest, among many others. Today there is no shortage of vocations to traditional communities.

continued
 
  1. Can the Traditional Latin Mass be celebrated in my parish church?
Yes. The Traditional Latin Mass has the same status as any other rite. In the Ecclesia Dei decree, the Pope also created a Pontifical Commission in Rome which is empowered, in the Holy Father’s name, to foster the traditional liturgy, and to assist those attached to it in every practical way.

In 1991 Cardinal Mayer, then President of this Pontifical Commission, wrote to the Bishops’ Conferences of several countries concerning the implementation of the Ecclesia Dei decree. Cardinal Mayer promulgated guidelines for the Bishops. These included:

Traditional Masses could be celebrated in parish churches.
Weekly Sunday and Holy Day Traditional Masses should be provided in a central location and at a convenient time for those requesting them.
Readings from the new Mass should not be imposed on those who wish to maintain the former liturgical tradition in its integrity.
  1. Why is the Traditional Latin Mass said in Latin?
Latin is the language of the Western Catholic Church. It has been used in the liturgy since at least the third century. Latin is universal: it transcends time, geography and culture.

The Second Vatican Council decreed that “the use of the Latin language, with due respect to particular law, is to be preserved in the Latin rites” (Sacrosanctum Concilium 36). In the 1983 Code of Canon Law “The Charter of Priestly Formation is to provide that the students are not only taught their native language accurately, but are also well versed in Latin” (C.I.C. 249).

Recently Pope John Paul II reminded Catholics that Latin “in all the world was an expression of the unity of the Church” and that “The Roman Church has special obligations towards Latin, the splendid language of ancient Rome, and she must manifest them whenever the occasion presents itself” (Dominicae Cenae III.10).

The form of the Traditional Latin Mass strenuously and unambiguously affirms true dogma, doctrine, and constitutes a fortress against heresy. The rubrics of the Traditional Latin Mass prevent innovation and abuse, and constitute a shield against sacrilege. The Latin language is precise and unchanging, and constitutes a defense against ideological manipulation. At a time when heterodox and feminist language is assaulting Sacred Scripture and the liturgy, the importance of Latin in securing the integrity of faith and worship is greater than ever.

continued
 
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A priest at my son’s high school told him that a Latin Rite Mass offered at a local church was not a valid Masss for anyone not raised in the “old way”, by which I take he meant pre Vatican II. Has anyone heard such a thing? Is there some reason he would want to discourage high school students from attending a Latin Mass?
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There have been some good posts on this thread. To be charitable, if the reporting of the priest’s remarks are accurate, he is at least very confused about the situation.

If the mass is said by a legitimate Catholic priest it has a valid Eucharist. Whether the mass is licit or illicit would depend on the standing of the priest with the bishop.
 
  1. How will I understand the Mass?
Most Catholics who assist at the Traditional Mass use a missal. By following the words and actions of the Priest with a missal the faithful are able both to understand the depth and beauty of the Rite, and to participate properly in the sacred action.
  1. Why does the priest not face the people?
It has been a tradition from the age of the EarlyChurch in both the East and the West for the Mass to be celebrated with both priest and people facing East (ad orientem convertimur). The priest is offering the Mass in Christ’s name and in Christ’s Person (in persona Christi) and is leading his people in adoration and worship to God the Father.

The East is the direction of the rising sun, symbolic at once of Christ, of the New Jerusalem, and of Heaven. St Augustine wrote, “we face east to remind ourselves that we must turn in the direction of a higher natural state, that is, that we must turn to God.” The priest, the figure of Christ the Good Shepherd, faces the (at least, liturgical) east and thereto leads his flock. Facing east underlines a fundamental approach to worship; worship that is God-centered rather than man-centered.
  1. Why are Gregorian Chant and Polyphony sung at the Traditional Latin Mass?
Gregorian Chant is the traditional church music of Western Christendom with origins pre-dating St. Gregory the Great, whose name it bears. Sacred Polyphony is that religious music with several parts sung in harmony, which arose during the Renaissance and reached its perfection in the 16th century. Composers such as Palestrina, Byrd, Allegri, Tallis, Morales, Josquin and Victoria have written hundreds of polyphonic pieces for the liturgies of the Roman Rite.

Vatican II explicitly upheld the traditional insistence of the Church that Gregorian Chant “be given pride of place in liturgical services” and that the special status of Sacred Polyphony be maintained (Sacrosanctum Concilium 116). Both Gregorian Chant and Polyphony express to the highest degree the purposes of sacred music laid down by the Church: the glory of God, the sanctification of the faithful, making prayer more pleasing, promotion of unity of minds, and the conferral of greater solemnity upon the sacred rites (Sacrosanctum Concilium 116).

Continued
 
  1. Does the Traditional Mass existing alongside the new Mass cause disunity?
No. In the words of the Catechism of the Catholic Church

“The mystery of Christ is so unfathomably rich that it cannot be exhausted by its expression in any single liturgical tradition.” (1201).

It is a sad symptom of what is “certainly a genuine crisis” (Pope John Paul II, Veritatis Splendor, 5) in the current life of the Church that those faithful who are rightfully attached to the traditional Latin liturgy have been accused of being ‘divisive’ or of ‘causing disunity’ in virtue of their attachment. The Holy Father has condemned such unjust treatment of traditional Catholics and even asked forgiveness for…

“the at times partial, one-sided and erroneous application of the directives of the Second Vatican Council, [which] may have caused scandal and disturbance concerning the interpretation of the doctrine and the veneration due to [the Sacrament of the Holy Eucharist]”

(Dominicae Cenae, III.12).

There is indeed a great threat to unity in the Church. It comes, however, from those who reject and disobey the apostolic tradition, not from those who uphold it:

“The criterion that assures unity amid the diversity of liturgical traditions is fidelity to apostolic Tradition”

(Catechism of the Catholic Church, 1209).
  1. What sort of people attend the Traditional Latin Mass?
Ordinary Catholics, from all walks of life! Increasingly, it is families and young people who are gaining spiritual sustenance from and discovering true Catholic community in, the traditional liturgy.

More and more Catholics are seeking the Traditional Liturgy as they make the same judgement about the new liturgy that has been expressed with remarkable candor by Josef Cardinal Ratzinger, Prefect for the Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith:

“What happened after the [Second Vatican] Council was something else entirely: in the place of liturgy as the fruit of development came fabricated liturgy. We abandoned the organic, living process of growth and development over centuries, and replaced it – as in a manufacturing process – with a fabrication, a banal on-the-spot product”

[Preface to the French Edition of The Reform of the Roman Liturgy by Msgr. Klaus Gamber].

At the beginning of this third millennium a new generation of Catholics is discovering for the first time the Traditional Latin liturgy of the last 1,500 years; a liturgy that reflects the immutable celestial liturgy, and which provides a native land for the faithful.
  1. What can I do to help?
Attend, support and promote a Traditional Latin Mass near you.
Ask your local Bishop and priests for increased provision of the Traditional Latin liturgies.
Pray.

The end.

Taken from the website of Eric William Hite. This is a private interpretation on the Latin Mass, however, he supplied references and these are easily verifiable.

www.webspawner.com/users/titulaire/
 
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RNRobert:
As far as I know, the Latin Mass IS valid and anyone can go, regardless of whether or not they were raised in the old way(I’ve never been able to attend one, BTW). I do know there is a schismatic group called the SSPX (Society of St. Pius X) that celebrates the Latin Mass, but they were excommunicated by Pope John Paul II, and that their Masses are not considered valid as far as Sunday obligation is concerned. As far as this priest is concerned, he may be a liberal type who has a thing against traditionalists.
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That is not true, a SSPX Mass can fullfill a sunday’s obligation as long as one does not deny the validly of the Novus Ordo and the intention is not schismatic.
 
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