Latin Mass vs New Mass

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pnewton:
I have no idea what a Bob and Tom show is, but I have noticed no one claiming invalidity for Traditional Catholics or posting undocumented pictures to ridicule traditional Catholics. The same is not true of the reverse.

If you could perhaps show an example of where this riducle you claim occurred, it would help.
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Not a whole lot of clown masses, cowboy masses, liturgical dancers, the Eucharist kept in baskets and the Precious Blood in kool aid jars in the Traditional Mass . Maybe thats why you don’t see many photos ridiculing it. There aren’t any.
 
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OutinChgoburbs:
In all charity, you might not be old enough to have attended the seven-minute (or shorter) TLM some priests could exectue on a Sunday morning. They were about as reverent as the morning chow line in boot camp. They were not limited to the low Masses, but also high Masses. If some priests could have gotten the communicants to open their mouths wider, I am almost positve the Sacred Host would have gone sailing like a frisbee into mouths. The dialogue between the priest and server sounded like that guy who does the super-speeded voice on commercials. I am not trying to be disrespectful. I am merely stating the truth. This could happen again, nothing to prevent it from happening again.

It is simpler to abuse a Mass in Latin because not everybody is exactly sure what is supposed to happen, and also because the possibility of anybody questioning Father on his actions is remote.

Those two points having been made:

Why oh why oh why can’t people just be happy with the Mass they have as long as it is not performed in a slap-dash manner, follows GIRM, and doesn’t try to force one’s (priest’s, liturgist’s, musician’s) political (how they think the Church should be istead of relying on dogma and discipline) view on anybody, but worship Christ, Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity? It is not as if there is isn’t enough variety out there now.
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I am old enough to remember. I never saw a 7 minute Mass of any type. Although some weekday Novus Ordo Masses do come close. Probably the fastest I ever saw a Traditional Mass completed in was about a half hour or so, and that would have been uncommon.
 
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JKirkLVNV:
I guess we don’t know precisely the same Catholics. Also, read Luther’s account of the Masses he witnessed in Rome…bit of an eye-opener. Yes, yes, I know he was a heretic, but that doesn’t of necessity make him a liar.
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Not necessarily, but possibly. And also quite possibly he exagarated to push his agenda. Luther did have some serious issues with the Church of that time, not feeling it to be holy enough for his taste. Interestingly enough, it is said that Luther felt he never left the Church and claimd to be faithful to it all of his life. I don’t know if that is the case or not, but I have often heard it over the years.
 
A preist in the audience during the Q&A segment on “Threshold of Hope” (EWTN) asked Father Pacwa why we took the mystical (Tridentine) out of the mass and replaced it with basically a more watered down mass (which is essentially what he was saying) when people were flocking to the Tridentine?Father Mitch made the typical good points, the culture etc… But that’s not the only thing. It’s so easy to blame everyone outside the church for what has happened inside the church. Most people know that the lack of beauty in the mass all the liturgical abuses and so forth are also a big part of the problem.

Father John Corapi said something to the effect of “What happens inside the church effects what happens outside the church” So all the disunity inside the church is adding to the disunity in the culture? Makes sense…
 
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palmas85:
Not necessarily, but possibly. And also quite possibly he exagarated to push his agenda. Luther did have some serious issues with the Church of that time, not feeling it to be holy enough for his taste. Interestingly enough, it is said that Luther felt he never left the Church and claimd to be faithful to it all of his life. I don’t know if that is the case or not, but I have often heard it over the years.
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The above is absolutely the case, no question. That’s where heresies begin, people thinking that they know better than the Church or can be holier than the Church. He was absolutely a heretic. I’m not defending him.
 
This was a mischief making poll. there is an element in the Church who are literally hell bent on destroying the Church by attacking Vatican 11 and the Mass. They do this in defiance of the papacy and the magisterium. My advice to them is, stop wasting your time.You will not prevail. Either subit to the power of the Church or go off anf found your own Church.
 
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maklavan:
This was a mischief making poll. there is an element in the Church who are literally hell bent on destroying the Church by attacking Vatican 11 and the Mass. They do this in defiance of the papacy and the magisterium. My advice to them is, stop wasting your time.You will not prevail. Either submit to the power of the Church or go off and found your own Church.
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Someone said that is exactly what “subsist in” VATII prelates did. When PIUS XII was confirming that the Church of Christ IS the Catholic church.:confused: They didn’t want that so a newchurch was founded…go figure… with the SUBSIST IN as its definition.

Preferred:
From CA

Latin mass 98 69.01%

New Mass **52 **36.62%
What in the WORLD???

MISCHIEF-MAKING POLL:
Latin mass 98 69.01%

New Mass **52 **36.62%

NON-MISCHIEF-MAKING POLL:
NEW mass 98 69.01%

LATIN Mass **52 **36.62%
 
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TNT:
Preferred:
From CA

Latin mass 98 69.01%

New Mass 52 36.62%
What in the WORLD???
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First, this poll was a public poll and that lends a great deal of inaccuracy. Does one group feel more vocal about its Mass preference? I think so.

Second, if you read the first few posts, several people, me included, declined to vote. I would question if as many ardent Traditional Mass fans declined to participate as Normative Catholics.
 
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pnewton:
First, this poll was a public poll and that lends a great deal of inaccuracy. Does one group feel more vocal about its Mass preference? I think so.

Second, if you read the first few posts, several people, me included, declined to vote. I would question if as many ardent Traditional Mass fans declined to participate as Normative Catholics.
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And I always wonder how many people post under mulitple monikers, thus also being able to vote multiple times. Maybe the majority of posters here DO prefer the Latin Mass. That doesn’t mean the majority of Catholics do.
 
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pnewton:
First, this poll was a public poll and that lends a great deal of inaccuracy. Does one group feel more vocal about its Mass preference? I think so.

Second, if you read the first few posts, several people, me included, declined to vote. I would question if as many ardent Traditional Mass fans declined to participate as Normative Catholics.
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HELLO?
I did not vote until today. Prior to that it was approx 68.5%.
 
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JKirkLVNV:
And I always wonder how many people post under mulitple monikers, thus also being able to vote multiple times. Maybe the majority of posters here DO prefer the Latin Mass. That doesn’t mean the majority of Catholics do.
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Of course you are right.
All I do is look to what the Unchangeable God preferred for 1,000 or so years, then conform to that.
I have no idea what He prefers today or will prefer after the next GIRM. v4.0.
I do know that "church"has been preferring different practices every 12 ys or so since 1969.
 
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TNT:
Of course you are right.
All I do is look to what the Unchangeable God preferred for 1,000 or so years, then conform to that.
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There’s the rub: God is immutable and changeless. The Mass isn’t, except in matter, form, and intent. As long as form, matter, and intent doesn’t change, the Church can govern the Sacraments as She sees fit…witness the Leonine Prayers (wouldn’t those qualify as rank innovations? I mean, they’re what, only 110-115 years old?). And as for which God prefers, well, I think it’s dangerous to presume to speak for God.
 
And when (not if) the Pope speaks on these issues and restores (1)the level of reverence not often found in the NO and (2)openly encourages the TLM, will most Catholics rejoice? Or will some be upset that the lay and/or clerical additions to the “matter, form and intent” of the Mass are always open to wreak-o-vations?
 
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maklavan:
This was a mischief making poll. there is an element in the Church who are literally hell bent on destroying the Church by attacking Vatican 11 and the Mass. They do this in defiance of the papacy and the magisterium. My advice to them is, stop wasting your time.You will not prevail. Either subit to the power of the Church or go off anf found your own Church.
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Vatican 11??? Wait a minute. There were 9 Vatican Councils that I’m not aware of??? Boy, do I feel like a dope. :nope:

You’d think around 6 or 7 they would’ve gotten tired of holding them in the Vatican all the time. Why not London or Berlin? I hear Paris is lovely in the springtime.

You people need to be more forthcoming. I count on you to keep me up to speed. When Vatican 12 opens, I expect to be apprised. :tsktsk:
 
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MrS:
And when (not if) the Pope speaks on these issues and restores (1)the level of reverence not often found in the NO and (2)openly encourages the TLM, will most Catholics rejoice? Or will some be upset that the lay and/or clerical additions to the “matter, form and intent” of the Mass are always open to wreak-o-vations?
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In my parish, the Mass of Paul VI is celebrated with all due reverence. As for what the Holy Father shall do, well, we’ll see what we shall see.
 
Dr. Bombay:
Vatican 11??? Wait a minute. There were 9 Vatican Councils that I’m not aware of??? Boy, do I feel like a dope. :nope:

You’d think around 6 or 7 they would’ve gotten tired of holding them in the Vatican all the time. Why not London or Berlin? I hear Paris is lovely in the springtime.

Yo±------
+u people need to be more forthcoming. I count on you to keep m/e up to speed. When Vatican 12 opens, I expect to be apprised +:tsktsk:
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The next Ecumenicl council will be a TRAVELING COUNCIL. 1st meeting is Econe Switzerland, next session at Calcutta, then Hiroshima, then Mecca, then Jerusalem. the final session will be Rwanda.
This will emphasize the Universal Ecumenical aspect of the conilliar church.
CONSIDER YURSELF NOTIFIED.
BTW:
We mailed you notices on all the others…to UNDISCLOSED, USA…All mail was returned…“Adressee unknown”.
 
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TNT:
The next Ecumenicl council will be a TRAVELING COUNCIL. 1st meeting is Econe Switzerland, next session at Calcutta, then Hiroshima, then Mecca, then Jerusalem. the final session will be Rwanda.
This will emphasize the Universal Ecumenical aspect of the conilliar church.
CONSIDER YURSELF NOTIFIED.
BTW:
We mailed you notices on all the others…to UNDISCLOSED, USA…All mail was returned…“Adressee unknown”.
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Of course it did. You think I want you people to know where I live? Some of you scare me. :eek: Besides, I have to maintain my mystique.
 
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TNT:
HELLO?
I did not vote until today. Prior to that it was approx 68.5%.
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More proof it is inaccurate. Without you and me, how could it ever be on target?
 
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