Latin Mass / Young Catholics

[IrishAm]

“Roman Catholic churches nationwide are rushing to accommodate a surge in demand for the traditional Latin Mass, which is drawing a surprising new crowd: young people.”

So begins an article in the Washington (DC) Times on October 28. A friend who faithfully attends Old Saint Mary’s (St. Mary, Mother of God CatholicChurch) sent it with great pride.

Link follows: washingtontimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071028/NATION/110280043/1002

 

[CatholicCid]

It’s something we’ve heard of yet have never seen. We also grew up in a period where it was not too wide known, so we are excited to see what the Mass that our ancestors, by blood and by faith, attended.
It’s a part of our faith and heritage, and don’t be surprised if we want to learn of it.

That said, we grew up with the NO Mass. It is the Mass of our youth and the Mass we are most acquainted with.

I have had the pleasure of knowing many great, holy Priests who have celebrated very reverent and orthodox Masses of the Ordinary Form. I love the Ordinary Form of the Mass. I do not see it as a “coffee social” as a quote in the article suggests, instead I see it as the Holy Sacrifice of Christ. To disrespect such a glorious Sacrifice, whether it is offered through the Ordinary Form, the Extraordinary Form, the Byzantine Liturgy, or any Catholic Liturgy is insulting.

I have yet to attend a Mass in the Extraordinary Form, but I am finalizing plans to attend for the first time. I do not see it as a relic of the past, of olden times with no use for today. Instead, I see it as a beautiful part of our living and breathing Church!

I hope it will be seen that we youth love BOTH Forms of the Mass, even if we may have preferences to one or the other.

So, overall, I like the article, though at times the tone could be more respectful. Just my :twocents:

 

[IrishAm]

So, overall, I like the article, though at times the tone could be more respectful.

Not from around here, are you? An article with respect for our faith in either the Washington Times or the Washington Post isn’t likely to happen . . . but the photos that accompanied it were lovely.

I hope it will be seen that we youth love BOTH Forms of the Mass, even if we may have preferences to one or the other.

Amen. You and I are in agreement, my friend. And it has been a long while since I was “youthful” – except in my heart.

 

[NewUlm1976_2000]

I can see an increase with some young people, but I do not see any massive movement with the youth towards TLM.

 

[alg775]

I’m 20 and I prefer the Mass of Paul VI. I prefer attending a Mass that I can understand and fully participate in.

 

[Nohome]

The MP of this summer that brought wider use of the TLM has had zero effect on my Diocese. No increase in the number of available TLMs. In fact, in my Parish it was never even mentioned. Just business as usual with the NO Mass.

Nohome

 

[brigid12]

The MP of this summer that brought wider use of the TLM has had zero effect on my Diocese. No increase in the number of available TLMs. In fact, in my Parish it was never even mentioned. Just business as usual with the NO Mass.

Nohome

Ditto!

 

[mdzialo]

Triple ditto for CT.

What’s latin?

Never heard of it around here.

Haven’t heard a Priest mention abortion in years, either. Our bishops are useless.

Thank heaven for EWTN. I watch the Mass practically every day. Great music, too. Sermons - very good.

 

[MelanieAnne]

I am fluent in romance languages, so the Latin Mass poses no impediment of understanding to me. So let me give that as a preface. I know I will understand the Latin Mass, not just because I am used to the Mass, but because I understand, pretty much, the words.

I am drawn to the Latin Mass because of its Universal application. If I go to a Latin Mass and someone in Rome or Guadalajara or Tokyo or WHEREVER goes to a Latin Mass, we’re all going to the same mass. I like that. It makes me feel we’re all going to the same church.

Call me silly if you want, but I like the idea that if I go to Mass in those places, I will “get it”. OK, maybe the homily will be in the “vernacular”, whatever that is in the place that it is located in, but that’s OK with me. The most essential parts will still be familiar, and that is good.

Catholic, we are told, means “universal”. To me, part of “universal” means that everyone learns and understands the same language, and in so doing, understands eachother. If Latin is that language, that’s OK.

 

[Meunke]

Well, just a reminder, the Pope’s latest writing doesn’t say we HAVE to abandon the new for the old. If you prefer the Novus Ordo, by all means, attend.

As far as understanding what is happening, I have followed the Latin Mass in the Missal enough times that I practically have it all memorized anyway.

Neither Mass, unfortunatly, will get the Infamous ‘CE’ Catholics (Christmas / Easter attendance only) to come back.

OVERALL, I have noticed that the old Latic Rite is usually much more reverently done. As far as you all responding and saying things like “HOW DARE YOU, MY PRIEST IS A SAINT AND SAYS THE NOVUS ORDO MASS PERFECTALLY!!11!!!” Well, good for you and your community. My experience is a little different. For example, I have never seen a guy dressed up in a John The Baptist rush out from Sacristy singing in the middle of the sermon at a Traditional Rite Mass. I guess that little piece of theatre was suppsed to impress or something.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Roman Catholic churches nationwide are rushing to accommodate a surge in demand for the traditional Latin Mass, which is drawing a surprising new crowd: young people.

I think this is a bit of an exaggeration by the Washington Times.

There hasn’t been any surge or scramble to accommodate demands for the TLM in my dioceses. In fact, I haven’t heard of any request at all for it.

If anything, the only thing I’ve read in the Catholic Free Press is fear that not having priest adequately trained in Latin, that there would be TLM’s that the words were merely mimicked.

Jim

 

[rlg94086]

I think this is a bit of an exaggeration by the Washington Times.

There hasn’t been any surge or scramble to accommodate demands for the TLM in my dioceses. ***In fact, I haven’t heard of any request at all for it. ***

If anything, the only thing I’ve read in the Catholic Free Press is fear that not having priest adequately trained in Latin, that there would be TLM’s that the words were merely mimicked.

Jim

That’s funny, because a parishioner told me that her pastor has told her and *every person who asked him *for the TLM the same thing - that there aren’t enough people asking for it at her parish. She is putting together a petition to demonstrate the number of people. It could be that your parish doesn’t have enough interest though.

We had 200 people show up at our first TLM, and the pastor is planning on offering it more. How often is yet to be determined.

As far as the training, those are unfounded fears. Adequate training is available. I don’t think a priest would offer any Mass by mimicking. Priests love the Mass.

[edited…I’m not sure if my diocese is near yours, I might have you confused with another poster]

 

[MelanieAnne]

We are fortunate to have 4 priests in our parish, including a retired-in-residence priest that is (obviously) old enough to have said many masses in Latin in his lifetime. He is going to undertake the training of the other priests, including the pastor. That’s all we’ve heard about it so far.

We had already begun to bring a little Latin back in ~ for example, during lent we do various sung parts of the mass in Latin. The thought was “use it or lose it” and we didn’t want to lose it.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

rlg94086;2986367

That’s funny, because a parishioner told me that her pastor has told her and *every person who asked him *for the TLM the same thing - that there aren’t enough people asking for it at her parish. She is putting together a petition to demonstrate the number of people. It could be that your parish doesn’t have enough interest though.

I was talking about the dioceses, not just my parish, which only has 400 families, and as far as I know, no one has requested the TLM.

We had 200 people show up at our first TLM, and the pastor is planning on offering it more. How often is yet to be determined.

These are people of your parish, or are they people traveling from outside the parish?

As far as the training, those are unfounded fears. Adequate training is available. I don’t think a priest would offer any Mass by mimicking. Priests love the Mass.

Actually, the fear was presented by a priest in the Catholic Free Press, who was ordained some 50 years ago. He spoke how when he was in the seminary, priest were trained to be fluent in Latin. They had to speak and write Latin. Today, this is not the case, according to him. The majority of the younger priest have no training in Latin. If they decide to say the TLM, they will in fact, be mimicking the words, and not really have the level of understanding and reverence like that of pre-Vatican II priest have.

Jim

 

[Nohome]

I am drawn to the Latin Mass because of its Universal application. If I go to a Latin Mass and someone in Rome or Guadalajara or Tokyo or WHEREVER goes to a Latin Mass, we’re all going to the same mass. I like that. It makes me feel we’re all going to the same church.

You can say the same thing about the NO Mass. I’ve attended the NO Mass in English, Hawaian, French and Japanese. In all cases, it was the same Mass and I understood where we were in the Mass and what was going on. I felt very much that I was in a Catholic Church.

Nohome

 

[rlg94086]

I was talking about the dioceses, not just my parish, which only has 400 families, and as far as I know, no one has requested the TLM.

It could be they didn’t inform you…

JimR-OCDS:

These are people of your parish, or are they people traveling from outside the parish?

I wasn’t able to make it (I was travelling on business), but I would guess it was predominantly our parishioners and some from three surrounding parishes (one of which shares our priest). It was a Friday evening Mass that was not a Holy Day of Obligation (All Soul’s Day). If people weren’t interested in the TLM, they wouldn’t have come.

JimR-OCDS:

Actually, the fear was presented by a priest in the Catholic Free Press, who was ordained some 50 years ago. He spoke how when he was in the seminary, priest were trained to be fluent in Latin. They had to speak and write Latin. Today, this is not the case, according to him. The majority of the younger priest have no training in Latin. If they decide to say the TLM, they will in fact, be mimicking the words, and not really have the level of understanding and reverence like that of pre-Vatican II priest have.

Jim

Is this priest for or against the spread of the TLM? That makes a big difference in assessing his opinion. I’ve heard some older priests make similar comments, but they generally have been the same priests who have spoken against a return to Latin. Our priest is younger, and I think that is the point of the article. It doesn’t surprise me to hear dissent from the same generation that gleefully turned away from the TLM.

As far as mimicking, I think this priest is incorrect. It is possible to learn the Latin necessary for the Mass without becoming a Latin scholar. Like any language, there are different levels of learning. If I take a conversational German class and travel to Germany, I am not “mimicking” in order to communicate. I’m using the parts of a language I have learned to communicate with someone.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

rlg

It could be they didn’t inform you…

They reported in the Catholic Free Press, that there hasn’t been any demand for it. Besides, a couple of monasteries have the NO in Latin. My guess is, people are satisfied with those places to go.

I wasn’t able to make it (I was travelling on business), but I would guess it was predominantly our parishioners and some from three surrounding parishes (one of which shares our priest). It was a Friday evening Mass that was not a Holy Day of Obligation (All Soul’s Day). If people weren’t interested in the TLM, they wouldn’t have come.

So did you guess when you said earlier that 200 people showed up?

Is this priest for or against the spread of the TLM?

He said he loved the old TLM. His concern was that our seminaries have not been training priest in Latin, to make the TLM what it was in the old days before Vatican II.

As far as mimicking, I think this priest is incorrect. It is possible to learn the Latin necessary for the Mass without becoming a Latin scholar.

If you’re not fluent in Latin, and only reading the Latin words, you are doing nothing much more than mimicking.

Like any language, there are different levels of learning. If I take a conversational German class and travel to Germany, I am not “mimicking” in order to communicate. I’m using the parts of a language I have learned to communicate with someone.

You may communicate, but you will not be as fluent as in your own language. Same is true for the Latin Mass. Nothing can replace the language that you speak with on a day to day basis.

Why anyone would think that Latin somehow makes the Mass more reverent or allows you to be more involved, when its not your native language, is beyond me.

Jim

 

[rlg94086]

So did you guess when you said earlier that 200 people showed up?

No…I trusted the word of my priest and fellow parishioners who told me about 200 people showed up, when I asked them. Why would you ask a question like that?

I had to guess about the make up of the 200, because you asked me a question which I didn’t ask of my priest and fellow parishioners. I had no reason to, because the only place the All Soul’s Day TLM was mentioned was from our pastor during Mass and in our bulletin. Anyone from other parishes (other than the one our pastor says Mass) would have come through word-of-mouth. It isn’t like we put a TV ad out.

He said he loved the old TLM. His concern was that our seminaries have not been training priest in Latin, to make the TLM what it was in the old days before Vatican II.

Thanks. That does make a difference to me, and it does give more weight to what he says.

If you’re not fluent in Latin, and only reading the Latin words, you are doing nothing much more than mimicking.

You may communicate, but you will not be as fluent as in your own language. Same is true for the Latin Mass. Nothing can replace the language that you speak with on a day to day basis.

Nonsense. You don’t need to be fluent in Latin to say Mass. You need to learn enough to say Mass. It is only mimicking, if you don’t bother to learn the meaning of the words you are praying. It would only be necessary for the priest (and assembly) to be fluent in Latin, if the readings and homily were presented in Latin only.

Why anyone would think that Latin somehow makes the Mass more reverent or allows you to be more involved, when its not your native language, is beyond me.

Jim

First of all, I haven’t said it makes the Mass more reverent, and I am not necessarily pushing my priest for the TLM. However, we say many of the common prayers in Latin in our OF Mass (as counselled by the Pope in Sacramentum Caritatis). When we pray the Gloria, Credo, Sanctus, Mysterium Fidei, Agnus Dei and Pater Noster, I know exactly what I am praying. My kids do to, as I have taught them - we are not mimicking. They are also learning other common prayers. None of us could pick up a Latin document and read it, but we might recognize the words we have learned due to learning those prayers.

I do feel that the Mass is better said *ad orientum, *but that can also be done with the OF.

 

[LilyM]

If you’re not fluent in Latin, and only reading the Latin words, you are doing nothing much more than mimicking.

I don’t think a priest would simply read the Latin words without knowing their meaning.

Most people who attend a TLM can read a Latin/English missal to gain requisite (and not at all shallow) understanding of what is being said and done.

A priest can do the same as far as the words of the Mass go - as far as gestures etc that is not a matter of fluency in Latin anyway, so can equally well be taught to any priest.

It’s similar to someone performing opera, which may be in a language like German or Italian that they don’t know. They can gain more than sufficient knowledge of whatever language via good instruction and translations to understand what they’re singing, even without fluency. And can grasp the non-linguistic essentials of what they’re doing during the rehearsal process, and can still do justice to their task.

 

[zagjames]

I am a college student, and tomorrow me and a friend are meeting with the a Priest at Campus Ministries to get the ball rolling on Latin Mass. We have interest from atleast 15 people to have a regular one, and we have only talked to about 18 people about it. (the other few all said they werent sure but would atleast like to go to one or two to check them out).

I am also helping the Priest at my home parish (about 1/2 hour from my college) on setting up TLM there. He has an end goal of being a TLM only Parish… we will have to see where that goes…

We have a Gregorian Chant Mass (Ordinary Form) at my school and usually 20 to 30 students show up (and it is not advertised on Campus it is only by word of mouth people find out about it).

Young People are definetly interested in Tradition. And if you sit down and truely explain more about their faith to them they begin to get the itch for more traditional Catholicism. I have seen it over and over.