Latin Mass

[wasserfall]

And exclude aboriginal people forever…don’t forget that part too.

How is that? Are aboriginal people incapable of understanding or appreciating the traditional mass?

I kind of doubt you mean to imply that.

 

[PrayForMeStJude]

I think there are some of my generation who never accepted the change. They are happy it is being performed again. I understand from some of the younger folk, youth ministers and such, that the younger people are really excited about the ritual, mystery, and trappings of the Latin Mass… This is the same generation that is being enthralled by vampite movies, etc. My point being (NOT comparing the Mass with vampires etc) that there seems to be a hunger for the spiritual, mysterious, and ritual in the younger generations. I can understand that they may be drawn to some of the older forms and rituals of the Church. So I hope it continues for their sake. As long as I can still find an OF Mass that is so meaningful to me. I hope others can find a what is meaningful for them. After all, it is still the same great mystery that is being reenacted at each Mass form. Praise God.

You do a pretty marvelous job of failing to understand my generation. Did you stop to think that maybe the ones watching movies about sparkly vampires AREN’T the same people going to Traditional Latin Mass?

The TLM isn’t gaining traction with us because we want some sort of “mysterious ritual,” it is gaining traction because we want to restore the remarkable heritage and history that the past few generations stole from us.

Just one of the many things the preceding Robber Generations have taken from us. Thanks!

 

[JustaServant]

I d on’t think the Latin Mass was ever banned except maybe in the early days there was some insistence by the Bishops to have the Mass said in the vernacular…

I can give you eyewitness testimony, including what was told to my parents, of people being told ,by clergy and laity that the TLM as ‘banned’, ‘forbidden’, ‘illegal’. When in fact, as Pope Benedict asserted the TLM was NEVER banned in any way shape or form.

 

[johnthebaptist1]

I can give you eyewitness testimony, including what was told to my parents, of people being told ,by clergy and laity that the TLM as ‘banned’, ‘forbidden’, ‘illegal’. When in fact, as Pope Benedict asserted the TLM was NEVER banned in any way shape or form.

Amen

 

[prettiefly]

Do you think that Latin Mass will contuinue to be with us for ever?

It is the Mass of Ages - nuf said.

 

[EcceAgnusDei]

And exclude aboriginal people forever…don’t forget that part too

Bruce
Trickster

Ummm… I fail to see how the Traditional Latin Mass excludes aboriginal people forever. The only Mass Blessed Kateri ever knew was the Tridentine Mass and it certainly didn’t exclude her.

• PAX

 

[Ohana]

You do a pretty marvelous job of failing to understand my generation. Did you stop to think that maybe the ones watching movies about sparkly vampires AREN’T the same people going to Traditional Latin Mass?

The TLM isn’t gaining traction with us because we want some sort of “mysterious ritual,” it is gaining traction because we want to restore the remarkable heritage and history that the past few generations stole from us.

Just one of the many things the preceding Robber Generations have taken from us. Thanks!

Oh good grief!!

 

[giuseppeTO]

As long as you asked, I will state my personal opinion and say, “No, I don’t think it will last.”

I think that eventually, probably within the next 50 years and maybe sooner, it will disappear from most dioceses. I think it will be celebrated once-a-year in some areas to pay tribute to “tradition,” kind of like “Founders’ Day” in Protestant churches. I think that a few priests will travel from area to area by invitation to perform these once-a-year tribute Masses, but that most priests will not learn how to celebrate the Latin Mass.

My main reason for this is purely practical–it’s an expensive undertaking, and I think that the Church will choose to put most of Her resources into less expensive and very practical outreaches that attract many people to the Church, and also help many people in their many needs.

Yes, I know that in some areas of the U.S., the Latin Mass attracts a crowd. But does that crowd sticks around for decades? And does that crowd contribute money and talents to the entire Church?

My personal opinion is that many people try the Latin Mass for a while because of the novelty, but many eventually depart (we don’t hear from those people on CAF). If I am wrong, then yes, the Latin Mass will be around, because it’s “profitable.” But if I am right, well…basically what I’m saying is that the product (the Latin Mass) will not work in such a way as to “profit” the Church in numbers of people or offerings of money and talents, and this will cause it to be “downsized.”

I also think that because of the diverse and very small world in which we live, COMMUNICATION, which involves “understanding” and “being understood” will become a major priority in the Catholic Church. I think that Protestants will continue to come home to Catholicism, and they will seek understanding of the faith rather than tradition

I know many of you disagree with me, and that’s OK. I won’t be around in 50 years. Some of you will be around, and if I’m wrong, you will be glad, and I won’t mind at all!

If you consider the Society of St. Pius X alone (I don’t know the numbers associated with the other Ecclesia Dei Orders) with 500+ priests and perhaps close to 1,000,000 who assist at Mass around the world, I think that 50 years from now, it will be more prevalent than any other form. With the shortages of diocesan priests in the U.S., we may have more permanent deacons holding Communion services with pre-consecrated hosts than actual Masses in the OF.

In the Archdiocese of New York this year, the second largest in the nation, there was but one ordination. And that priest celebrated his first Mass in the EF.

So, the more appropriate question may be, will there be any other form of the Latin liturgy available in the future?

As far as Protestants coming to Catholicism, the desire to be ecumenical has not been a reason so far. They appear to be firstly coming to an understanding of the Traditional Catholic Faith and then converting for tradition (in faith and morals), not the other way around.

 

[Cat]

If you consider the Society of St. Pius X alone (I don’t know the numbers associated with the other Ecclesia Dei Orders) with 500+ priests and perhaps close to 1,000,000 who assist at Mass around the world, I think that 50 years from now, it will be more prevalent than any other form. With the shortages of diocesan priests in the U.S., we may have more permanent deacons holding Communion services with pre-consecrated hosts than actual Masses in the OF.

In the Archdiocese of New York this year, the second largest in the nation, there was but one ordination. And that priest celebrated his first Mass in the EF.

So, the more appropriate question may be, will there be any other form of the Latin liturgy available in the future?

As far as Protestants coming to Catholicism, the desire to be ecumenical has not been a reason so far. They appear to be firstly coming to an understanding of the Traditional Catholic Faith and then converting for tradition (in faith and morals), not the other way around.

But aren’t there close to a billion more Catholics who are not members of the SSPX, and mostly celebrate the OF Mass? A million is not a very large number compared to a billion.

My husband and I, along with our daughter, are evangelical Protestants who converted to Catholicism. We had no interest in ecumenicalism–I’m not sure where you got that from my post. What we were very interested in is obeying Jesus, our Lord and Savior, and being part of the Church that He Himself established. In order to do that, we had to first study and make sure that the Catholic Church truly is His Church. We decided that it was, and that’s why we joined. I know that some Protestants are interested in seeking out and practicing “traditions,” but we have no interest in this. Our interest is in being disciples of Jesus Christ, becoming holy like Him, and doing whatever He asks us, through His Church, to do.

 

[Diana_Catherine]

I hope they never stop having Latin Mass,see because today I was at Latin Mass and I begain to cry, just to be able to take part. Do you think that Latin Mass will contuinue to be with us for ever?. God Bless

I think it will be continue to be with us. The desire for it seems to be growing faster and faster and it seems like more and more priests are returning to traditional Catholicism. I think after a while you will see the connection to the “spirit” of what has happened over the last 40 years fade.

I think it will be celebrated once-a-year in some areas to pay tribute to “tradition,” kind of like “Founders’ Day” in Protestant churches. I think that a few priests will travel from area to area by invitation to perform these once-a-year tribute Masses, but that most priests will not learn how to celebrate the Latin Mass.

I highly doubt that. More and more priests are learning to say the latin mass everyday.
Latin is even a popular subject at the local Catholic high school. It is the first step in learning the latin mass.

I think that Protestants will continue to come home to Catholicism, and they will seek understanding of the faith rather than tradition

Many protestants coming home to the Catholic church are very excited to be where they are and want to learn more and more about the church and are turning to the Latin Mass and in order to understand the faith you have to understand and learn tradition.

… but I can also say that I feel you are cutting yourself off from a truly beautiful experience. As I quoted Blessed John Henry Newman, “it is the most beautiful thing this side of heaven.”

I agree. I have heard people say that while attending it seems as if you are in heaven or heaven has come down to you.

It is the Mass of Ages - nuf said.

Agree.

.

 

[James224]

I hope they never stop having Latin Mass,see because today I was at Latin Mass and I begain to cry, just to be able to take part. Do you think that Latin Mass will contuinue to be with us for ever?. God Bless

I don’t think it will ever disappear. Every young person I’ve seen go to the Latin Mass loves it! The question is how long will it take for everyone to be able to go to it? As more and more people are exposed to it, it will really take off.

 

[Diana_Catherine]

I don’t think it will ever disappear. Every young person I’ve seen go to the Latin Mass loves it! The question is how long will it take for everyone to be able to go to it? As more and more people are exposed to it, it will really take off.

I agree. I am praying for a Latin Mass to be near us. Even my teenage son said he would love it.

 

[Armyvet007]

You do a pretty marvelous job of failing to understand my generation. Did you stop to think that maybe the ones watching movies about sparkly vampires AREN’T the same people going to Traditional Latin Mass?

The TLM isn’t gaining traction with us because we want some sort of “mysterious ritual,” it is gaining traction because we want to restore the remarkable heritage and history that the past few generations stole from us.

Just one of the many things the preceding Robber Generations have taken from us. Thanks!

1. If its just about heritage and history, you are missing the whole point of our faith. Catholicism isn’t some sort of national or ethnic cultural identity.
2. Apparently the Robber Generation also “stole” reading comprehension [your lack of it being the only way I can explain how you came up with your conclusions of Ohana’s post] along with manners and civility.

 

[giuseppeTO]

But aren’t there close to a billion more Catholics who are not members of the SSPX, and mostly celebrate the OF Mass? A million is not a very large number compared to a billion.

My husband and I, along with our daughter, are evangelical Protestants who converted to Catholicism. We had no interest in ecumenicalism–I’m not sure where you got that from my post. What we were very interested in is obeying Jesus, our Lord and Savior, and being part of the Church that He Himself established. In order to do that, we had to first study and make sure that the Catholic Church truly is His Church. We decided that it was, and that’s why we joined. I know that some Protestants are interested in seeking out and practicing “traditions,” but we have no interest in this. Our interest is in being disciples of Jesus Christ, becoming holy like Him, and doing whatever He asks us, through His Church, to do.

If there are two billion, it wont matter if there are no priests left to offer the OF.

In the US, 30% of Catholics attend Sunday Mass. In France, its more like 5%. The 3rd world will not supply the needed vocations.

 

[PrayForMeStJude]

1. If its just about heritage and history, you are missing the whole point of our faith. Catholicism isn’t some sort of national or ethnic cultural identity.
2. Apparently the Robber Generation also “stole” reading comprehension [your lack of it being the only way I can explain how you came up with your conclusions of Ohana’s post] along with manners and civility.

Thankfully, someone finally responded! I was starting to think everyone living high off my tax dollars was too lazy to respond! Thank goodness, I was wrong!

I would absolutely LOVE it if you tried to justify your persoonal insult against me. HOW exactly is my comprehension off? Please, try your best to explain that to me. It’ll be fun for everyone.

As for my manners and civility… some people come to bring not peace but the sword. Am I wrong about the preceding generations being barbaric thieves? I doubt you could prove otherwise.

 

[giuseppeTO]

My husband and I, along with our daughter, are evangelical Protestants who converted to Catholicism. We had no interest in ecumenicalism–I’m not sure where you got that from my post. What we were very interested in is obeying Jesus, our Lord and Savior, and being part of the Church that He Himself established.

As evangelical Protestants, what made you question whether or not you were truly in Christ’s church?

 

[Armyvet007]

Thankfully, someone finally responded! I was starting to think everyone living high off my tax dollars was too lazy to respond! Thank goodness, I was wrong!

I would absolutely LOVE it if you tried to justify your persoonal insult against me. HOW exactly is my comprehension off? Please, try your best to explain that to me. It’ll be fun for everyone.

As for my manners and civility… some people come to bring not peace but the sword. Am I wrong about the preceding generations being barbaric thieves? I doubt you could prove otherwise.

Ohana didn’t say those that like the vampire stuff are the same ones who get into traditionalist stuff [which by the way isn’t really traditionalist but simply a fixation on American Catholicism as practiced during the first half of the 20th Century]. He said the same generation that gets into the first is also getting into the second and stated the reason as “a hunger for the spiritual, mysterious, and ritual in the younger generations.” I’d say that’s a rather accurate assesment on Ohana’s part given the rise of neo-paganism, occult based TV shows and movies, and the occult based sub-cultures found within our generation [yeah I’m young]. I’d also say that Ohana made it rather clear he wasn’t saying those that get into the BS are the same individuals getting into the traditionalist stuff. I’d also say your failure to display civility and comprehend what Ohana said in his post is based on some sort of axe you have to grind against the prior generation. And I’ll be more then happy to respond to your so far vague accusations of the “Robber Generation” in a new thread.

 

[AdDeum]

The Traditional Latin Mass is not going away. In fact, I think it is expanding. More and more parishes are starting to offer this form. Granted, it is not happening overnight. But, then again, does anything with the church happen overnight?

I think why it is expanding is because people are looking for the beauty and the reverence that can be found in the Latin Mass. Can the Ordinary Form be beautiful and reverent? Of course it can. However, that is NOT the norm. Most times in the N.O., there are no bells, no incense, etc.

 

[EcceAgnusDei]

Ohana didn’t say those that like the vampire stuff are the same ones who get into traditionalist stuff which by the way isn’t really traditionalist but simply a fixation on American Catholicism as practiced during the first half of the 20th Century].

So you discredit the entire traditional Catholic spirituality with a “by the way” statement that has no basis in fact and is said as an aside, calling tradition a “fixation,” as if it were a psychological disorder.

For someone who just called out someone else about “civility” you do an amazing job of showing disrespect to those on this particular forum who are drawn to traditional Catholic practices.

(which, by the way, is NOT a fixation on American Catholicism as practiced during the first half of the 20th century)

Unlike you, I’ll offer at least one piece of evidence to support my claim. Take a look at most of the groups associated with the traditionalists and you’ll notice that they did not originate in America, but Europe. Furthermore, you’ll notice that traditional Catholicism is found all over the globe, not just in America. I’m sure Bishop Fellay would be amused to find out that he is fixated on American Catholicism…

Either stop attacking traditional Catholicism in the traditional Catholicism forum, or at least educate yourself and offer rational arguments, not unsupported asides.

• PAX

 

[Ohana]

You do a pretty marvelous job of failing to understand my generation. Did you stop to think that maybe the ones watching movies about sparkly vampires AREN’T the same people going to Traditional Latin Mass?

The TLM isn’t gaining traction with us because we want some sort of “mysterious ritual,” it is gaining traction because we want to restore the remarkable heritage and history that the past few generations stole from us.

Just one of the many things the preceding Robber Generations have taken from us. Thanks!

Well I can see my comment touched a nerve I never meant to disturb. Let me see if I can clarify. I needed a little time to process this.

I did not mean to compare the current facination with vampires and all kind of weird stuff with the Mass, or to assign that interest to a whole generation. I was commenting that according to youth ministers I have spoken to, young people are thirsting for the mystery, spirituality, and ritual found in the TLM. If some of the former are moved to find what they are searching for in the TLM, I would call that a step in the right direction.

From your comments, I see that part of that attraction to your generation is in gaining something you feel you lost due to the changes after Vatican II. Some of that did happen I think. The change was great and a period of re-forming structures occurred. One was in redesigning some of the catechetical material for young people. You did not have Baltimore 1 and 2. I am startled at how little some of my younger family members know about the church. The new catechism is a good element of progress.

I was a child of the 40’s and 50’s and was graduated from college in the early 60’s. I attended the TLM all my life up until then. While I understood what was happening on the altar in some respects, due to the dual columns in my missal and the teaching of the sisters about parts of the Mass, a great deal of it passed me by. I have commented that I never understood a word of the eucharistic prayer for example. I could say et cum spiritu tuo with the best of them, but what was I saying. ??? I found the OF Mass to be a great revelation, a joy to participate in, and a place where I could really come to know Jesus and appreciate what he did for me.

I did not have so much a sense of community - well in my home church I was with relatives and p eople I had known all my life, but we did not really participate together. While I was struggling to understand what was going on, others were just saying their rosaries. I had a sense that what was going on on the altar was irrelavant to some.

That is the atmosphere I am fearful of returning to. I read that some are learning the ecclesiastical Latin to more perfectly participate in the Mass. Frankly, I am a little too old to do that now. I am glad for you if it is meaningful and a joyful process for you.

I did not understand the comment abour being robbers. I don’t think I did or would do that knowingly.

God bless. Please accept my regret and apology for any hurt I caused you.