Latin Mass?

[palmas85]

You know the state of the majority of souls in your parish? Then you know more than anyone bar God himself - even your parish priests wouldn’t know who’s been to confession elsewhere, for example.

You know sometimes I really wonder about people. OK. I’ll give you several examples. There is a couple who are members of my parish.They live together and are openly and flagrantly homosexual, and not at all uncomfortable that everyone knows it. Both receive Holy Communion weekly at least and often several times weekly. They by their own admission engage in homosexual practices because as they say, it is their right to do so. They feel again by their own admission that reconciliation is for those who really need it not two people deeply committed and in love.

The second concerns a single mom. She has three children from three different men. She has at any given time three to four boyfriends or more explicitly sugar daddies all of whom with whom she engages in sexual relations on a regular basis. I know this because I live in the apartment next door to her and can hear them through the walls. She has not gone to confession in several years as she feels no need to. She and I talk about this on occasion. She feels that confession is useless and devalues human beings especially women. She does receive weekly communion however and makes sure her children are at Mass on Sundays. She attends Mass several times a week, usually in the afternoon and always receives.

Another example would be my ex co worker whom I will call Bob. Bob is a 45 year old divorced father of 2 children with his ex wife and 1 with a girl with whom he had an affair while still married to his wife. Bob belongs to a sex club that specializes, from what he says in threesomes. He attends their meetings regularly and often brings photographs bragging on how much he is getting. Not only does Bob receive weekly, he is also an extraordinary minister who usually serves at least twice a week…

Yet another would be Tracy and Anna, a nice young couple. Tracy is a lifelong Catholic, married and divorced twice with no annulments. Anna also a cradle Catholic, is still married to her husband of 8 years but living with Tracy for the past three years and with whom she is pregnant with their second child. They plan on getting married as soon as her divorce is final…They plan to file for her divorce early next year… Both attend Mass every Sunday together and separately usually on Wednesday and Friday afternoons and yes, they receive.

I bring these examples because these are people that I know personally. There are others, but these are typical of not a small number of people not only in my parish but others as well…

So yes, I do know quite a bit about the people in my parish. Not everything, but enough. You see Lily, 30 years as a cop taught me a few things that maybe you and others don’t know or recognize.or even want to see . But then again maybe you are right. maybe it is perfectly OK for people to engage in whatever wild licentious behavior they want whenever they want and then receive Holy Communion. Heck all of the sacraments., why not?

This is the new springtime is it not?

Oh and Lily, I don’t believe I said a majority, I said many. Two different words and two different concepts. Kind of like for all and for many. No matter how you slice it its not the same thing.

 

[bear06]

Hey, I even admitted that it was different for once a week attendees. That said, you said daily Mass. Also, remember what qualifies it for a mortal sin.

Just out of curiosity, has the priest given them instruction as to their transgressions?

 

[Silver_Thread]

FYI: Traditional Latin Mass: St. Vincent Basilica, Crypt High Altar (beneath main church, “appropriate”, “Catacombs” October 22 thur 26th. at 8:30 a.m., Oct 27th, 9:00 a.m., Sunday Oct 28th at 1:00 P.M. Hallelujia!!!:extrahappy:
That’s in Latrobe Pa. St. Vincent College.

 

[LilyM]

I bring these examples because these are people that I know personally. There are others, but these are typical of not a small number of people not only in my parish but others as well…

So yes, I do know quite a bit about the people in my parish. Not everything, but enough. You see Lily, 30 years as a cop taught me a few things that maybe you and others don’t know or recognize.or even want to see . But then again maybe you are right. maybe it is perfectly OK for people to engage in whatever wild licentious behavior they want whenever they want and then receive Holy Communion. Heck all of the sacraments., why not?

This is the new springtime is it not?

Oh and Lily, I don’t believe I said a majority, I said many. Two different words and two different concepts. Kind of like for all and for many. No matter how you slice it its not the same thing.

Of course five or six or a dozen or whatever examples MUST mean ‘many’ because you think it does.

It doesn’t! If Christ had come to save five or six or a dozen people he wouldn’t have said ‘many’ NOR ‘all’!

Don’t forget that apart from knowing all about what people do and what they think about what they do you need to go back a step further and figure out the root causes.

You may know that your neighbour sleeps with various men and doesn’t see anything wrong with it - and also has an aversion to confession. Which is fine. Still doesn’t give you the right to presume on her state of the soul. You need to know why her behaviour is the case.

Was she abused as a child or as an adult? Was she given bad advice or a severely traumatic ‘dressing down’ by a confessor that left her scarred? Is she just plain suffering from some mental disorder that you don’t know about? Sex addiction perhaps?

Heck, could be something even SHE doesn’t know she has, so of course you wouldn’t either. Could even be a combination of these things, all of which lessen if not remove culpability on her part. If you’re a cop or ex-cop you should know better than to look at the surface of what people say and do.

 

[latinmasslover]

Of course five or six or a dozen or whatever examples MUST mean ‘many’ because you think it does.

It doesn’t! If Christ had come to save five or six or a dozen people he wouldn’t have said ‘many’ NOR ‘all’!

Don’t forget that apart from knowing all about what people do and what they think about what they do you need to go back a step further and figure out the root causes.

You may know that your neighbour sleeps with various men and doesn’t see anything wrong with it - and also has an aversion to confession. Which is fine. Still doesn’t give you the right to presume on her state of the soul. You need to know why her behaviour is the case.

Was she abused as a child or as an adult? Was she given bad advice or a severely traumatic ‘dressing down’ by a confessor that left her scarred? Is she just plain suffering from some mental disorder that you don’t know about? Sex addiction perhaps?

Heck, could be something even SHE doesn’t know she has, so of course you wouldn’t either. Could even be a combination of these things, all of which lessen if not remove culpability on her part. If you’re a cop or ex-cop you should know better than to look at the surface of what people say and do.

I have to side with palmas on this. I see what you’re saying and these are things that definitely have to be considered, but every Catholic has an obligation to learn the Faith. If a priest gives advice contrary to the teachings of the Church then the person is not to obey. Many people choose not to look into the matter because “Fr. Bob” says their behavior is okay, or because they know “Fr. Bob” is wrong but don’t want to change their lifestyles. If they’re living in sin, no matter the reason, they are obliged to confess before receiving Holy Communion; otherwise they’re guilty of sacrilege, more than venially sinful. If they *choose *not to study the Faith and learn Her teachings then they’re guilty of serious sin…if they *choose *not to study the Faith *in order to stay ignorant *then they commit a mortal sin. People living sinful lifestyles need to be informed, then rebuked (if necessary, and charitably), and if they still refuse to change, disciplined.

 

[palmas85]

Of course five or six or a dozen or whatever examples MUST mean ‘many’ because you think it does.

It doesn’t! If Christ had come to save five or six or a dozen people he wouldn’t have said ‘many’ NOR ‘all’!

Don’t forget that apart from knowing all about what people do and what they think about what they do you need to go back a step further and figure out the root causes.

You may know that your neighbour sleeps with various men and doesn’t see anything wrong with it - and also has an aversion to confession. Which is fine. Still doesn’t give you the right to presume on her state of the soul. You need to know why her behaviour is the case.

Was she abused as a child or as an adult? Was she given bad advice or a severely traumatic ‘dressing down’ by a confessor that left her scarred? Is she just plain suffering from some mental disorder that you don’t know about? Sex addiction perhaps?

Heck, could be something even SHE doesn’t know she has, so of course you wouldn’t either. Could even be a combination of these things, all of which lessen if not remove culpability on her part. If you’re a cop or ex-cop you should know better than to look at the surface of what people say and do.

Your answer says it all Lily. Nothing is anyones fault. Everything is caused by something or somebody else and no one is responsible for their own actions, Everything can be explained away and excused by circumstance.

Being an ex cop, I know that many people make excuses and try to find wiggle room out from their actions at just about every opportunity usually not admitting culpability even when caught red handed so to speak. The cases where people are found incompetent through disease or mental defect are in actuality quite few in number and often times those are frauds who use loopholes in the law. It isn’t like it is on TV in real life.

You represent the new order very well Lily, very well indeed.

But you are right in one respect, there are many things I do not know, in fact, a great many things. But I do know that many does not, has not and can never mean all, There is no way it can, Lily, I do know that and deep down, so do you. Even if you won’t admit it…

 

[LilyM]

Your answer says it all Lily. Nothing is anyones fault. Everything is caused by something or somebody else and no one is responsible for their own actions, Everything can be explained away and excused by circumstance.

Being an ex cop, I know that many people make excuses and try to find wiggle room out from their actions at just about every opportunity usually not admitting culpability even when caught red handed so to speak. The cases where people are found incompetent through disease or mental defect are in actuality quite few in number and often times those are frauds who use loopholes in the law. It isn’t like it is on TV in real life.

You represent the new order very well Lily, very well indeed.

But you are right in one respect, there are many things I do not know, in fact, a great many things. But I do know that many does not, has not and can never mean all, There is no way it can, Lily, I do know that and deep down, so do you. Even if you won’t admit it…

Give it a rest. Of course I excuse everyone and everything and that’s why I confess on average every ten days, because I’m so very willing to excuse sin :yup:

I don’t excuse it, neither do I believe in obeying those who would command me to sin. Nor, as the Church says we mustn’t, would I condone the giving of Communion where it would cause scandal - not to pro-abortion politicians, not to Rainbow Sashers and whatever other such cases haven’t occurred to me yet.

But beyond that, we are OBLIGED to charity in respect of individuals, as the Catechism states,

‘2478 To avoid rash judgment, everyone should be careful to interpret insofar as possible his neighbor’s thoughts, words, and deeds in a favorable way’.

And that’s what I do, no more nor less. I adopt as my own St Teresa of Avila’s dictum - ‘be stern with yourself and gentle with everyone else’. She certainly was a woman who couldn’t be accused of ‘representing the new order’, neither should I be.

 

[palmas85]

Give it a rest. Of course I excuse everyone and everything and that’s why I confess on average every ten days, because I’m so very willing to excuse sin :yup:

I don’t excuse it, neither do I believe in obeying those who would command me to sin. Nor, as the Church says we mustn’t, would I condone the giving of Communion where it would cause scandal - not to pro-abortion politicians, not to Rainbow Sashers and whatever other such cases haven’t occurred to me yet.

But beyond that, we are OBLIGED to charity in respect of individuals, as the Catechism states,

‘2478 To avoid rash judgment, everyone should be careful to interpret insofar as possible his neighbor’s thoughts, words, and deeds in a favorable way’.

And that’s what I do, no more nor less. I adopt as my own St Teresa of Avila’s dictum - ‘be stern with yourself and gentle with everyone else’. She certainly was a woman who couldn’t be accused of ‘representing the new order’, neither should I be.

While you may accept her as your role model so to speak you are not in any way shape or form her. She did not represent the New Order Lily. Yet in many of your postings you appear to. I congratulate you on your acceptance of your own faults. It is to be commended. I do the same, yet, I am unable to dismiss the sins of others when they are shoved in my face and I am told" This is me!!! Accept me!! God loves me as I am!! He requires nothing and gives everything!! Stop being legalistic" Some things no matter how charitable one is cannot be explained away by addiction or trauma or anything else. Some things are just plain wrong.

Maybe thats my failing Lily, I don’t know. But I do know that far too many people today cavalierly dismiss their own sins and the sins of others and believe that all sin is societal and not personal in any sense.