Latin NO

[SenorSalsa]

well, there is nothing i can do to let you believe that the traditional teachings of Catholicism is in clash to the modern ideas of Vatican II. Come on, ope your eyes. you are only looking at the light of V2 and what about the past? Everything that you disliked that is against the New Mass, you make it a heresy, although there is no proof that it is something heretical. You made them erroneous because it is offendeing to you. Hey, study Catholicism not in the light of V2 alone but also the teachings of the past, you will realize it is really in clash. Please dont be proud enough, Im not offending you but i really have to tell this bcoz i have to. that **V2 is really departing from Catholicism. **I advise if you study the Council of Trent specifically. I wont provide links so that it wont be bias. all you have to do is search. if you dont trust the internet, then go to the library.
You are saying attack on the Church, the church you are reffering is V2 right? its not really an attack but to point out errors… Please study Catholicism (again) not in ight of V2 alone.

Come on wake up. Again, please study. Study history

If I study history, will you study theology?

 

[NTOT]

well, there is nothing i can do to let you believe that the traditional teachings of Catholicism is in clash to the modern ideas of Vatican II.

Would you say that the second Vatican Council was an erroneous council held by the Holy Catholic Church?

Come on, ope your eyes. you are only looking at the light of V2 and what about the past?

What is the “light of V2”.

Everything that you disliked that is against the New Mass, you make it a heresy, although there is no proof that it is something heretical.

Such as? When I point out the error in a quote which states that the Mass is not a sacrifice, let alone the Perfect Sacrifice, but merely a meal, yes it is because it is heretical. One among the many quotes I listed, each of which is in error.

You made them erroneous because it is offendeing to you. Hey, study Catholicism not in the light of V2 alone but also the teachings of the past, you will realize it is really in clash.

I realize that the Catholic Church does not contradict itself nor does it hold a council which proclaims or teaches error, nor sets up Masses which are not Perfect Sacrifices nor ones that are theologically incorrect and teach error. Don’t have such disrespect for the Church.

Please dont be proud enough, Im not offending you but i really have to tell this bcoz i have to. that V2 is really departing from Catholicism.

Do you know what a Vatican Council is? Do you honestly believe it can be at odds with the Catholic Church? I will pray for you.

I advise if you study the Council of Trent specifically.

I have and neither can I find where it has ever taught error. Same as V2.

I wont provide links so that it wont be bias. all you have to do is search. if you dont trust the internet, then go to the library.
You are saying attack on the Church, the church you are reffering is V2 right? its not really an attack but to point out errors… Please study Catholicism (again) not in ight of V2 alone.

It doesn’t matter how many times it has to be said. The Church does not teach error, especially when it teaches from the position of a Vatican council.

Come on wake up. Again, please study. Study history

Excellent advice.

 

[piojunbabia]

If I study history, will you study theology?

Im not talking to you but yea! study Theology before studying histoy… dont worry, i’d be in the seminary in a couple of months…

 

[rlg94086]

First of all: Latin YES

Okay, now that I have that out of my system… My family attends a Latin OF, and we definitely prefer it. However, it is more than the Latin IMHO. It is also the chanting and the Schola, and the different vestments on feast days.

Now, at our parish, we are also altar boy only (usually 6-8 of them) with bells, silence before Mass, etc. at every Mass.

My TLM experience is limited to one Mass, offered without music by an older priest who was difficult to follow. Our previous priest offered a couple of EF Masses, but they were during the week (feast days), and I was traveling. I hear they were wonderful. At this point, the Latin OF is fine for me. I like the extra readings. I do think the liturgy would be better if the priest faced ad orientum during the consecration though…oh…and if we had altar rails, no EMHCs, etc.

 

[piojunbabia]

Would you say that the second Vatican Council was an erroneous council held by the Holy Catholic Church?

YES! are you aware that everything that Martin Luther wanted for the Catholic Church to be reformed has granted to him by VAtican II?does that mean Martin Luther was right in his plans for reformation? are you also aware than there were also councils in the past that has been declared by infallible council as “anti-council” or heretical council? are you aware that V2 is the only council that has made no definition of dogma, rejects heresy or condemn heretics but instead allowed oother religions to (including Jewish, Islam, Buddhism, animalist, pagans * and all religions you could name) to be part of the one true church of Christ and all will have the destination of heaven?are you aware of that? isnt is a blatant heresy done by V2? and now you will say that V2 is not in error?

The previous councils were so strict regarding the catholic faith and now V2 is so lax and they even allow other religions. look at V2 has done to us. Many Catholics has converted to other religions since the opening of V2… tremendous decline! abortion, diviorce,sex education is allowed in some diocese in US and other diocese in the world since the opening of the V2.

Are you thinking that there is no problem in the Churchh today? a tremendous crisis of faith occur within the church. Good for you that you have religious inclination but how about these Catholics who became Catholics only by baptism and not in practice and faith(most cant even recite the apostles creed), who do not know about CAtholicism. It is due to lack of cathecism within the diocese or parishes( very rampant in my country) and it is due to poor seminary formation of the priest…

Are you also aware that the enemy of the Catholic Church is within the Church, they are now bishops or cardinals who promote false doctrines. its true bro, lets work this out. the enemy is not sleeping and he is working very hard to destroy the church and the solution is to go back to Catholics orthodoxity in doctirne in faith and morals. The enemy cannot destroy the church from outside so they are now inside the church to destroy it from within.

its as if the Catholic Church started in 1962 - the opening of V2.

Such as? When I point out the error in a quote which states that the Mass is not a sacrifice, let alone the Perfect Sacrifice, but merely a meal, yes it is because it is heretical. One among the many quotes I listed, each of which is in error.

both masses are sacrifice. but the sacrifice in the New Mass has been dimished since it is patterned to a Protestant liturgy and make it closer to it especifically Calvinist liturgy that is according to Pope Paul VI himslelf. (I forgot the exact words he said). Thus, both Masses are not of the same value. Remember the story of Abel and Cain? that explains.

The New Mass also contain errors. Since it is patterned to Protestant liturgy, errors is inevitable. Essential Prayers in the Old Mass is removed. The nature of sacrifice in New Mass is really not totaly believed by most. The Eucharist becomes a symbol of Jesus(in the minds of the most people) and not His real body, etc. Lay ministers are introduced because of it. Etc…

I realize that the Catholic Church does not contradict itself nor does it hold a council which proclaims or teaches error, nor sets up Masses which are not Perfect Sacrifices nor ones that are theologically incorrect and teach error. Don’t have such disrespect for the Church.

YEs, thats perfectly true, but V2 disreagard the warnings of COuncil of Trent written in the document which is a Papal Bull entitled Quo Primum Tempore. V2 has violated. Etc…

Do you know what a Vatican Council is? Do you honestly believe it can be at odds with the Catholic Church? I will pray for you.

yes i know very well V2, how about you? V2 departs from Catholicism and Catholic in good faith cannot obey heretical council. I will pray for you too… Lets pray for each other… Thank you for praying for me. But i’l pray for you more inorder for you to see the truth.

I have and neither can I find where it has ever taught error. Same as V2.

truly V2 is in error.

It doesn’t matter how many times it has to be said. The Church does not teach error, especially when it teaches from the position of a Vatican council.

yes i know but Vatican council is not an infallible council and but V2 could.thus capable of error. THe church of course does not teach error

Excellent advice.

are starting already? by the way, not only history but theology.

let us pray for the triumph of the Immaculate Heart of Mary
let us also pray for the return of the Kingship of Our Lord Jesus Christ whom now he is uncrowned.
let us pray for the return of the traditional cathecism of the Catholic Church.

Ave Maria!*

 

[piojunbabia]

Would you say that the second Vatican Council was an erroneous council held by the Holy Catholic Church?

YES! r u aware dat evrything dat Martin Luther wanted 4 the Catholic Church 2b reformed has grnted 2 him by V2?does dat mean Martin Luther was right in his plans 4 reformation? r u also aware that there were councils in the past dat has been declared by as heretical council? r u aware dat V2 is d only council dat has made no definition of dogma, rejects heresy or condemn heretics but instead praised other religions as good as CAtholic religion who will all go to heaven no matter what?are you aware of that? isnt is a blatant heresy done by V2? and now you will say that V2 is not in error?

The previous councils wer so strict regarding d catholic faith and now V2 is so lax and dey evn allow other religions.Many Catholics has converted 2 othr religions since d opening of V2… trmendous decline! abortion,diviorce,sexeducation s allowed n some diocese n US and othr diocese n d world.

r you thinking dat dr is no prblem n the Churchh 2day? a trmendous crisis of faith occur w/n d church.Gud 4 u dat u hv religious inclination bt hw abwt dose Catholics hu bcame Catholics only by baptism and not n prctice and faith(most cant even recite the apostles creed), who do not know about CAtholicism. It is due to lack of cathecism within the diocese or parishes( very rampant in my country) and it is due to poor seminary formation of the priest…

Are you also aware that the enemy of the Catholic Church is within the Church, they are now bishops or cardinals who promote false doctrines. its true bro, lets work this out. the enemy is not sleeping and he is working very hard to destroy the church and the solution is to go back to Catholics orthodoxity in doctirne in faith and morals. The enemy cannot destroy the church from outside so they are now inside the church to destroy it from within.

What is the “light of V2”.

its as if the Catholic Church started in 1962 - the opening of V2. THe other councils are not regarded.
Consider these:

Lay Readers and Lay Ministers of Communion
“If anyone says that all Christians [lay people] have the power to administer the word [read at Mass] and all the sacraments [give out communion], let him be anathema.”
[Canon 10, Session VII, March 3, 1547]
At the New Mass it is quite usual for lay people to read at Mass and to distribute Communion.

Communion under both species
*“If anyone says that the Holy Catholic Church has not been influenced by just causes and reasons to give communion under the form of bread only…or that she has erred in this, let him be anathema.”
[Canon 2, Session XXI, July 16, 1562]
*

---

The Canon of the Mass
*“If anyone says that the Canon of the Mass contains errors, and therefore should be abrogated, let him be anathema.”
[Canon 6, Session XXII, Sept. 17, 1562]
*
In the New Mass the Canon that existed in the Mass at the time of the Council of Trent has been changed (this includes the new Eucharistic Prayer I and the changing of “for many” into “to all”).

The Language of the Mass
*“If anyone says that the Rite of the Roman Church, according to which a part of the Canon is pronounced in a low tone, is to be condemned or that the Mass ought to be celebrated in the vernacular only…let him be anathema.”
[Canon 9, Session XXII, Sept. 17, 1562]
*
At the New Mass the whole Canon (Eucharistic Prayer) is said out loud, and the New Mass is said entirely in the vernacular everywhere.

Making changes to the Mass
*“If anyone says that the received and approved rites of the Catholic Church… may be changed by any pastor of the Churches to any new ones: let him be anathema.”
[Canon 13 on the Sacraments, Session VII, March 3, 1547]
*
Bishops and priests make personalized changes to the New Mass whenever they like. (This includes adding extra prayers that are not in the Missal, or leaving prayers out, or adding clowns, balloons or dancing girls). Some may argue that it also includes adding the shaking of hands, WHICH IS NOT IN THE MISSAL EITHER. Only the Pope has the authority to change the liturgy.<–is a heresy, no one can EVER change the Mass, that includes the Pope.

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[piojunbabia]

Such as? When I point out the error in a quote which states that the Mass is not a sacrifice, let alone the Perfect Sacrifice, but merely a meal, yes it is because it is heretical. One among the many quotes I listed, each of which is in error.

both masses are sacrifice. but the sacrifice in the New Mass has been dimished since it is patterned to a Protestant liturgy and make it closer to it especifically Calvinist liturgy that is according to Pope Paul VI himslelf. (I forgot the exact words he said). Thus, both Masses are not of the same value. Remember the story of Abel and Cain? that explains.

The New Mass also contain errors. Since it is patterned to Protestant liturgy, errors is inevitable. Essential Prayers in the Old Mass is removed. The nature of sacrifice in New Mass is really not totaly believed by most. The Eucharist becomes a symbol of Jesus(in the minds of the most people) and not His real body, etc. Lay ministers are introduced because of it. Etc…

I realize that the Catholic Church does not contradict itself nor does it hold a council which proclaims or teaches error, nor sets up Masses which are not Perfect Sacrifices nor ones that are theologically incorrect and teach error. Don’t have such disrespect for the Church.

YEs, thats perfectly true, but V2 disreagard the warnings of COuncil of Trent written in the document which is a Papal Bull entitled Quo Primum Tempore. V2 has violated. Etc…

Do you know what a Vatican Council is? Do you honestly believe it can be at odds with the Catholic Church? I will pray for you.

yes i know very well V2, how about you? V2 departs from Catholicism and Catholic in good faith cannot obey heretical council. I will pray for you too… Lets pray for each other… Thank you for praying for me. But i’l pray for you more inorder for you to see the truth.

I have and neither can I find where it has ever taught error. Same as V2.

truly V2 is in error.

It doesn’t matter how many times it has to be said. The Church does not teach error, especially when it teaches from the position of a Vatican council.

yes i know but Vatican council is not an infallible council and but V2 could.thus capable of error. THe church of course does not teach error

Excellent advice.

are starting already?
let us pray for the triumph of the Immaculate Heart of Mary

Ave Maria!

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[Al1953]

Has anyone here been to a Latin NO? I have seen them on EWTN and think they are very good. I wish I could find one. There is no Tridentine mass around me and I think I might prefere the Latin NO anyway

I have not been to a Latin Novus ordo recently but I was an altar boy in the mid 1960s and in those days that was the standard. I think it would definitely be more spiritually filling than many of the Novus ordo masses I have seen. Even the ones that try to be spiritual are just so bland and vanilla. The Latin language is just so totally Catholic and should be brought back in some capacity in the standard Novus ordo, even if just for the consecration. If your anywhere near Chicago St. John Cantius has what I think should be the model for all parishes, it has a Latin Novus ordo, and English Novus ordo, and a Tridentine mass. Personally I love the Tridentine, I have been attending one even before Ecclesia Dei when all we had were independent chapels. I now, and have been attending the local Diocesan approved Tridintine for the last 15 years and its so nice to be under the umbrella of the Vatican once again.

 

[Flos_Campi]

both masses are sacrifice. but the sacrifice in the New Mass has been dimished since it is patterned to a Protestant liturgy and make it closer to it especifically Calvinist liturgy that is according to Pope Paul VI himslelf. (I forgot the exact words he said). Thus, both Masses are not of the same value. Remember the story of Abel and Cain? that explains.

The New Mass also contain errors. Since it is patterned to Protestant liturgy, errors is inevitable. Essential Prayers in the Old Mass is removed. The nature of sacrifice in New Mass is really not totaly believed by most.

The Eucharist becomes a symbol of Jesus(in the minds of the most people) and not His real body, etc. Lay ministers are introduced because of it. Etc…

I attend NO Masses and have never, ever considered the Eucharist as a mere symbol ! What a nasty arrogant statement! You really ought to mind what rubbish you are spouting. I have many devout Catholic friends who reverently believe that they are receiving our Lord’s real Body , Soul and Divinity.

And it’s ok for you if you attend SSPX, or TLM, but what about those who don’t have the privilege of living near an SSPX Chapel. Or the disabled who can’t easily attend Mass. Are you saying they should forego fulfilling their Sunday obligation rather than attend an NO Mass? Who are you anyway, the POPE??

Y

Es, thats perfectly true, but V2 disreagard the warnings of COuncil of Trent written in the document which is a Papal Bull entitled Quo Primum Tempore. V2 has violated. Etc…

yes i know very well V2, how about you? V2 departs from Catholicism and Catholic in good faith cannot obey heretical council. I will pray for you too… Lets pray for each other… Thank you for praying for me. But i’l pray for you more inorder for you to see the truth.
truly V2 is in error.
yes i know but Vatican council is not an infallible council and but V2 could.thus capable of error. THe church of course does not teach error
are starting already?
let us pray for the triumph of the Immaculate Heart of Mary

Ave Maria!

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