Law Enforcement Against Prohibition

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oldcatholicguy said:
The textile industry has been legal for centuries (or thousands of years depending on how you define legal), yet it is still plagued with criminal elements. If you really think drug criminals are going to magically stop engaging in criminal behavior just because drugs are legal than you are just fooling yourself.
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Besides totally missing the point, and not referencing the website I directed people to you show your ignorance in this way:

Lets make illegal the sale of anything that is legal yet has criminal elements attached to it. Nice logic.

What we are talking about is ending the Al Capone mass murders from prohibition. Now alcohol distributors and manufactures LIKE to have police around their places of business. And competing distributors don’t routinely murder each other, etc…

I’m going to stop replying to this thread since people not only are not referencing the website, they are putting forth ridiculous or irrelevant arguments.

Cheers
 
oldcatholicguy said:
The textile industry has been legal for centuries (or thousands of years depending on how you define legal), yet it is still plagued with criminal elements. If you really think drug criminals are going to magically stop engaging in criminal behavior just because drugs are legal than you are just fooling yourself.
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Precisely. The exact same principles in favor of drug legalization were used in the arguments favoring legalized abortion. The result is that we now have much more abortion, and women are now dying in licensed facilities. Yet, the government is taxing those facilities and accepting the revenue.
 
Bill_7154 said:
Besides totally missing the point, and not referencing the website I directed people to you show your ignorance in this way:

Lets make illegal the sale of anything that is legal yet has criminal elements attached to it. Nice logic.

What we are talking about is ending the Al Capone mass murders from prohibition. Now alcohol distributors and manufactures LIKE to have police around their places of business. And competing distributors don’t routinely murder each other, etc…

I’m going to stop replying to this thread since people not only are not referencing the website, they are putting forth ridiculous or irrelevant arguments.

Cheers
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Organized crime got out of the alcohol business (not really completely out by the way) because of the drug business, not because alcohol was made legal again.

As for ridiculous arguments, that would be assuming criminals who have no issue killing people and taking on governments are going to abandon already established unregulated farming, smuggling routes, distro networks, money laundering networks, and etc so that they can start paying taxes and having governments heavily involved in their business.
 
The war on drugs has cost way too much in civil liberties, much less dollars.

The federal government was never given the power to ban plants and chemicals anyway.
 
The moonshine and illegal meth labs are good examples.
  1. Tax it? The illegal dealers don’t have to worry about the EPA, government regulations or paying taxes. It’s called a tax dodge. The money goes in their pockets and nobody knows.
  2. Our war on car theft is ongoing and robbery in general. Waste of time?
  3. And what about healthcare? Costs keep going up. Once you give people the “freedom” to get messed up, costs will go down to “treat” them?
Nope, nobody’s died from using marijuana but there are real health effects.

drugabuse.gov/publications/marijuana-facts-teens/want-to-know-more%E2%80%94-some-faqs-about-marijuana

And then there’s fake marijuana:

fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/law-enforcement-bulletin/may-2012/synthetic-marijuana

Peace,
Ed
 
Bill_Martin said:
The war on drugs has cost way too much in civil liberties, much less dollars.

The federal government was never given the power to ban plants and chemicals anyway.
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The Food and Drug Administration doesn’t exist? 🙂 Or the EPA?

Peace,
Ed
 
edwest2 said:
The moonshine and illegal meth labs are good examples.
  1. Tax it? The illegal dealers don’t have to worry about the EPA, government regulations or paying taxes. It’s called a tax dodge. The money goes in their pockets and nobody knows.
  2. Our war on car theft is ongoing and robbery in general. Waste of time?
  3. And what about healthcare? Costs keep going up. Once you give people the “freedom” to get messed up, costs will go down to “treat” them?
Nope, nobody’s died from using marijuana but there are real health effects.

drugabuse.gov/publications/marijuana-facts-teens/want-to-know-more%E2%80%94-some-faqs-about-marijuana

And then there’s fake marijuana:

fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/law-enforcement-bulletin/may-2012/synthetic-marijuana

Peace,
Ed
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1.) Marlboro, Camel, etc would be by far the biggest sellers of it and they would be taxed.
  1. Car theft hurts someone else. Using drugs hurts the person who does it. No different than alcohol, tobacco, cheeseburgers, or anything else that isn’t healthy. My health is none of the government’s business.
3.) People have the freedom to eat unhealthful foods, not exercise, smoke, drink, go skydiving, ride motorcycles or do countless other things that are unhealthy or dangerous that causes them to need healthcare. That’s life.
 
Bill_Martin said:
1.) 2. Car theft hurts someone else. Using drugs hurts the person who does it. No different than alcohol, tobacco, cheeseburgers, or anything else that isn’t healthy. My health is none of the government’s business.
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Drug and alcohol-induced vehicular homicide hurts no one else? Drug-induced crime hurts no one else? Robberies for legal Oxycontin hurt no one else? There is both spiritual and corporal damage.

I understand libertarian thoughts - it’s just that they cannot exist in a stable society, no matter how attractive they seem. They say “libertarian” but they mean “licentious”
 
po18guy said:
Drug and alcohol-induced vehicular homicide hurts no one else? Drug-induced crime hurts no one else? Robberies for legal Oxycontin hurt no one else? There is both spiritual and corporal damage.

I understand libertarian thoughts - it’s just that they cannot exist in a stable society, no matter how attractive they seem. They say “libertarian” but they mean “licentious”
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Should we ban alcohol because of vehicular homicide? Of course not, and its the same thing here.
 
From the CCC:

2291 The use of drugs inflicts very grave damage on human health and life. Their use, except on strictly therapeutic grounds, is a grave offense. Clandestine production of and trafficking in drugs are scandalous practices. They constitute direct co-operation in evil, since they encourage people to practices gravely contrary to the moral law.

In view of the above, does anyone think that the RCC would support the re-criminalization of alcohol? If ever they do, I’d pay good money to hear Cardinal Dolan explain that stand to the K of C.
 
Bill_7154 said:
Besides totally missing the point, and not referencing the website I directed people to you show your ignorance in this way:I’m going to stop replying to this thread since people not only are not referencing the website, they are putting forth ridiculous or irrelevant arguments.

Cheers
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wow!
 
Ridgerunner said:
Agree in part. Disagree in part.

Does anybody really think that before Prohibition women didn’t drink in the U.S.? Maybe a lot of protestant women didn’t, but Irish-American, Italian-American, French-American and German-American women sure did. They did before Prohibition, during it, and after it. Not 20 miles from here is the arguably oldest commercial winery in the U.S. It never went out of production during Prohibition. It was in a close-knit ethnic community and nobody ever ratted them out.

I do agree that we learned something about prohibition of alcohol too. When it became legal again, the moonshiners still made and sold moonshine. Why? Because it’s cheaper for the ultimate consumer, and some people just like it. I could drive no more than 30 miles from where I sit right now and score some moonshine, and probably less than that if I knew where to go. Of course, one has to have a reliable supplier, because some moonshiners’ product is dangerous…just as drugs will be if they’re legalized. There will always be freelancers for a product that’s addictive. Always. Does anybody really believe “licensed meth” will be as cheap as kitchen-manufactured meth? And does anybody believe illegal meth will fail to have additives or contaminants in it then, just as it does now?

And when people become hopelessly dependent, as some are now and many will be if drugs are legalized, and ruin their lives, does anybody really think they’ll fail to turn to the cheaper product when they no longer can make a living due to their addiction?
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I have little clue where to buy moonshine in Milwaukee. Except for one half Puerto Rican on the South side I know. Other than that the corner stores (sell beer), liquor stores, lounges and bars corner the market. They’re on just about every corner.

And I don’t know about meth so I can’t speak to that. But crack cocaine if legalized would cost less than a single cigarette (which is about 35 cents each in a pack I believe). You have to add paper and other things to the tobacco product to make a cigarette. Crack is just cut with a razor blade and tied in a plastic bag after the cocaine is cooked up. In fact, when “droughts” hit the city from major police take downs or something, the price skyrockets by $2 to $5 bags selling for $10 bags.

If you made cigarettes illegal criminals could sell individual cigarettes for $10 a piece. Two cigarettes would cost a smoker $20 and 10 would cost a smoker $100.

And I doubt decriminalizing drugs is going to create a huge drug problem across the nation. Currently, it’s a bit tougher to get crack - and quality crack - in the City of Milwaukee. Not sure why. Consequently the quantity in a bag has dropped while prices remained same. But back in the mid 1990’s to about 2000 there were more distribution spots for crack on the North side of Milwaukee than there were distribution spots for alcohol. And we have stores and bars for alcohols just about every few blocks (sometimes on the same block). But with crack you could have 3 crack houses on one residential block, with some also standing on corners, with some also sitting in cars, with some also riding on bikes, with some also walking on foot. Just saturated.

But there’s not a lot of meth in Milwaukee, so, I know little about that stuff.
 
As I see it, law enforcement has zero role in public policy making. They have slowly morphed into yet another policy-making arm of an increasingly out of touch (and arguably out of control) government. In California, “law enforcement” advocated for legalization. Even the left-leaning voters said “no!” Apparently, this dichotomy is the voters’ fault. If only they were as enlightened as the elitist police administrations, they would vote correctly.
 
po18guy said:
Drug and alcohol-induced vehicular homicide hurts no one else? Drug-induced crime hurts no one else? Robberies for legal Oxycontin hurt no one else? There is both spiritual and corporal damage.

I understand libertarian thoughts - it’s just that they cannot exist in a stable society, no matter how attractive they seem. They say “libertarian” but they mean “licentious”
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Most vehicular homicides are from alcohol use.

Most your robberies are from alcohol.

Most your fights are from alcohol.

Most murders in the U.S. are people committing murder while under the influences of alcohol.

Alcohol is the king, yet ironically, it is legal.

Milwaukee made a law about 2 decades ago stopping the sell of alcohol after 9 PM (it was Midnight prior I believe) because the police found too strong a statistical link between armed robberies of stores throughout the city and alcohol consumption.
 
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