Lay Lead Liturgy - Does it meet Sunday obligation?

[nickybr38]

In a situation where a priest has left a parish and the parish is left without a priest for some length of time, would parishioners be obligated to attend the lay led liturgy that is done in the interim? Or are they exempted from having to attend.

Have a friend who is in the situation described above and those leading the lay led liturgy are borderline heretical and she would rather not expose her children to the things they are doing.

 

[Discerning13]

That is extremely concerning, I would suggest reporting it to the ordinary as soon as possible.

As for attending mass, Would there be any other parishes near your friend?

 

[porthos11]

In a situation where a priest has left a parish and the parish is left without a priest for some length of time, would parishioners be obligated to attend the lay led liturgy that is done in the interim? Or are they exempted from having to attend.

Have a friend who is in the situation described above and those leading the lay led liturgy are borderline heretical and she would rather not expose her children to the things they are doing.

If there are other parishes or Catholic churches where it’s not physically or morally impossible to attend Mass, the obligation binds and Communion services don’t “count”.

If there is indeed a physical or moral impossibility of hearing Mass at another church, then the obligation does not bind, as no one is bound to the impossible. Therefore, attending the Communion service is praiseworthy, but is not required. It therefore still doesn’t “count”. The obligation is to attend Mass, not any other service in lieu of.

 

[Phemie]

When there is no possibility of attending Mass on Sunday we are encouraged to gather as a community to hear the Word of God but there is no obligation to do so.

The obligation is to attend Mass; no Mass = no obligation.

 

[sw85]

That is extremely concerning, I would suggest reporting it to the ordinary as soon as possible.

As for attending mass, Would there be any other parishes near your friend?

It is possible he is speaking about a lay-lead communion service, which is in fact permitted in cases of extreme priest shortage. In that case the ordinary almost certainly already knows about it.

To answer the OP, I echo porthos’ response. It does not satisfy the divine-law obligation, though it may be praiseworthy in the sense of satisfying the purely natural obligation to worship. Where there is no priest, there is no Mass; where there is no Mass, there is no obligation to attend Mass.

 

[1ke]

Lay Lead Liturgy - Does it meet Sunday obligation?

No. It does not meet the obligation. If there is a Mass that can be attended in another parish within reasonable distance, the obligation is to go to that Mass.

In a situation where a priest has left a parish and the parish is left without a priest for some length of time, would parishioners be obligated to attend the lay led liturgy that is done in the interim? Or are they exempted from having to attend.

It is “strongly recommended”. It is not, however, required.

Can. 1248 §1. A person who assists at a Mass celebrated anywhere in a Catholic rite either on the feast day itself or in the evening of the preceding day satisfies the obligation of participating in the Mass.

§2. If participation in the Eucharistic celebration becomes impossible because of the absence of a sacred minister or for another grave cause, it is strongly recommendedthat the faithful take part in a liturgy of the word if such a liturgy is celebrated in a parish church or other sacred place according to the prescripts of the diocesan bishop or that they devote themselves to prayer for a suitable time alone, as a family, or, as the occasion permits, in groups of families.

Have a friend who is in the situation described above and those leading the lay led liturgy are borderline heretical and she would rather not expose her children to the things they are doing.

She should report such concerns to her bishop. Sunday Celebrations in the Absence of a Priest also have rubrics that must be followed.

 

[KathleenGee]

I am from a former diocese who had women religious on seminarian admittance boards, and they were not very accepting of candidates who supported our Catholic traditions.

There was a movement, illicit, by some to remove the clergy and have lay run Masses. A pilot was done educating a certain parish.

When the priest asked how many liked the lay led liturgy?..all hands went up, faces full of smiles…

Then the priest asked…“If you had the chance, how many people would rather drive 80 miles to Mass than attend a lay led Sunday liturgy?”…all the hands would rather drive the 80 miles.

The sheep know their shepherd and He knows them.

 

[on_the_hill]

What if…

What if the only other service is not Catholic?

 

[on_the_hill]

What if…

What if the only other service is not Catholic?

For example, when my son and I attend Cub Scout camp for the weekend, there is a Saturday evening “service.” I tell him the service not for us and we leave camp early on Sunday to attend Mass.

What if there were legitimate, grave reasons that prevented us from attending Mass? Should we attend the so-called “Scouts Own Service?”

 

[porthos11]

What if…

What if the only other service is not Catholic?

For example, when my son and I attend Cub Scout camp for the weekend, there is a Saturday evening “service.” I tell him the service not for us and we leave camp early on Sunday to attend Mass.

What if there were legitimate, grave reasons that prevented us from attending Mass? Should we attend the so-called “Scouts Own Service?”

Same answer. If it’s impossible to attend Mass, there is no obligation to attend Mass and there is no need to go to the Scouts Own Service. It may not even be prudent to go.

 

[Corki]

In a situation where a priest has left a parish and the parish is left without a priest for some length of time, would parishioners be obligated to attend the lay led liturgy that is done in the interim? Or are they exempted from having to attend.

Have a friend who is in the situation described above and those leading the lay led liturgy are borderline heretical and she would rather not expose her children to the things they are doing.

You are never obligated to attend any service other than Mass. I have been to Communion services that sound like what your friend is describing. Almost every time, the leader would use the post-Gospel, reflection as a soapbox for why there should be women priests to solve the priest shortage. I think it’s because a Communion service is non-traditional it seems to draw in a lot of people with agendas who misinterpret it as a free-for-all.

While a call to the chancery might be useful, it might be better just to wait it out until the new pastor comes. He will hopefully resolve any misconceptions. In the meantime, if another parish isn’t reasonably close, a Mass on TV might be the better option.

 

[on_the_hill]

Same answer. If it’s impossible to attend Mass, there is no obligation to attend Mass and there is no need to go to the Scouts Own Service. It may not even be prudent to go.

What I’m asking is if it’s permissible to go.

 

[thistle]

What I’m asking is if it’s permissible to go.

Why would you want to attend a non-Catholic Christian worship service. We are permitted to attend baptisms, weddings and funerals but it is STRONGLY recommended that we do not attend worship services because the beliefs are not the same and by participating in such worship services it can be construed as affirming those beliefs which contradict the Catholic Church teachings.
If you attend you should basically sit at the back and do not participate in the service at all.

 

[Corki]

What I’m asking is if it’s permissible to go.

You can’t go to something like this instead of Mass. But if you are unable to get to a Mass on a Sunday, there isn’t anything necessarily wrong with what sounds like a non-specific prayer service recognizing that Sunday is the Lord’s day.

The main concern would be for your son’s understanding. Cub Scout age is pretty young. Would you be able to attend with him and not risk some confusion or an impression that “it’s all the same”.

 

[Phemie]

Why would you want to attend a non-Catholic Christian worship service. We are permitted to attend baptisms, weddings and funerals but it is STRONGLY recommended that we do not attend worship services because the beliefs are not the same and by participating in such worship services it can be construed as affirming those beliefs which contradict the Catholic Church teachings.
If you attend you should basically sit at the back and do not participate in the service at all.

A Scout’s Own is just about helping a Scout develop a sense of spirituality as it relates to and helps him/her understand the Scout Law. It’s pretty ecumenical, involving non-Christian scouts as well as Christians, at least in the groups my kids have been involved in.

 

[CB_Catholic]

In a situation where a priest has left a parish and the parish is left without a priest for some length of time, would parishioners be obligated to attend the lay led liturgy that is done in the interim? Or are they exempted from having to attend.

Have a friend who is in the situation described above and those leading the lay led liturgy are borderline heretical and she would rather not expose her children to the things they are doing.

What is “borderline heretical”? There is no such thing. You cannot just go around accusing people of heresy. What are they doing that is so awful?

 

[CB_Catholic]

That is extremely concerning, I would suggest reporting it to the ordinary as soon as possible.

As for attending mass, Would there be any other parishes near your friend?

Lay led Communion Services ARE permitted in such situations if there are no Masses available within reasonable distance. Before you go reporting things to the Bishop you get your facts straight and make sure that what is being done is actually a grave abuse.

The Ordinary may well have approved these Services. Don’t go around advising people to report things to the Bishop, esp. since you don’t know all the facts.

 

[on_the_hill]

A Scout’s Own is just about helping a Scout develop a sense of spirituality as it relates to and helps him/her understand the Scout Law. It’s pretty ecumenical, involving non-Christian scouts as well as Christians, at least in the groups my kids have been involved in.

Thank you.

As for my son, I have no concerns that he would misunderstand.

 

[on_the_hill]

What is a lay led Communion service? Never heard of it before.

 

[Brendan]

What is “borderline heretical”? There is no such thing. You cannot just go around accusing people of heresy. What are they doing that is so awful?

I didn’t see where she said any particular person was borderline heretical. Rather, practices at a particular liturgy.

You are correct that we have no authority to accuse any person of being a heretic, that right is reserved exclusively to the Magisterium.

But the Church has declared certain positions and practices to be anathema, and if those are observed, it is simply a restatement of what the Church has already declared.

An action or position can be heretical without the person performing the act being a heretic.