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Lay mininsters may not cleanse Communion vessels, Pope Benedict says
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Victorious
Guest
We need a smiley that sighs in exasperation.
Nobody is talking about lay extraordinary ministers taking Communion to the sick. At issue is the crowd of extraordinary ministers who flock to the altar at Mass, even when there are more than enough ordinary ministers to distribute Communion. This is an abuse.
And before anybody says it and makes me puke: extraordinary ministry of the Eucharist is NOT NOT NOT about increasing participation of the laity.
J
John_Lilburne
Guest
I noticed that the title of this post is incorrect: “Lay mininsters may not cleanse Communion vessels, Pope Benedict says”.
An instituted acolyte is a lay minister. He has not been ordained. An instituted acolyte may cleanse the Communion vessels.
From the 2002 General Introduction to the Roman Missal (GIRM) which can be accessed from romanrite.com/girm.html :
“279. The sacred vessels are purified by the priest, the deacon, or an instituted acolyte after Communion or after Mass, insofar as possible at the credence table.”
So the CNS headline was also incorrect. The CNS story has: “with instituted acolytes being permitted in the Roman Missal to help the priest or deacon “to purify and arrange the sacred vessels.””
But the insituted acolyte can do the purifications on his own. More quotes from the GIRM on this:
“192. Likewise, when the distribution of Communion is completed, a duly instituted acolyte helps the priest or deacon to purify and arrange the sacred vessels. When no deacon is present, a duly instituted acolyte carries the sacred vessels to the credence table and there purifies, wipes, and arranges them in the usual way.”
“247. The deacon reverently drinks at the altar all of the Blood of Christ that remains, assisted, if necessary, by some of the concelebrants. He then carries the chalice over to the credence table and there he or a duly instituted acolyte purifies, wipes, and arranges it in the usual way (cf. above, no. 183).”
“249. … The deacon, however, consumes at the altar all that remains of the Precious Blood, assisted, if necessary, by some of the concelebrants. He carries the chalice to the credence table and there he or a duly instituted acolyte purifies, wipes and arranges it in the usual way.”
“284. … b. Whatever may remain of the Blood of Christ is consumed at the altar by the priest or the deacon or the duly instituted acolyte who ministered the chalice. The same then purifies, wipes, and arranges the sacred vessels in the usual way.”
An instituted acolyte is a lay minister. He has not been ordained. An instituted acolyte may cleanse the Communion vessels.
From the 2002 General Introduction to the Roman Missal (GIRM) which can be accessed from romanrite.com/girm.html :
“279. The sacred vessels are purified by the priest, the deacon, or an instituted acolyte after Communion or after Mass, insofar as possible at the credence table.”
So the CNS headline was also incorrect. The CNS story has: “with instituted acolytes being permitted in the Roman Missal to help the priest or deacon “to purify and arrange the sacred vessels.””
But the insituted acolyte can do the purifications on his own. More quotes from the GIRM on this:
“192. Likewise, when the distribution of Communion is completed, a duly instituted acolyte helps the priest or deacon to purify and arrange the sacred vessels. When no deacon is present, a duly instituted acolyte carries the sacred vessels to the credence table and there purifies, wipes, and arranges them in the usual way.”
“247. The deacon reverently drinks at the altar all of the Blood of Christ that remains, assisted, if necessary, by some of the concelebrants. He then carries the chalice over to the credence table and there he or a duly instituted acolyte purifies, wipes, and arranges it in the usual way (cf. above, no. 183).”
“249. … The deacon, however, consumes at the altar all that remains of the Precious Blood, assisted, if necessary, by some of the concelebrants. He carries the chalice to the credence table and there he or a duly instituted acolyte purifies, wipes and arranges it in the usual way.”
“284. … b. Whatever may remain of the Blood of Christ is consumed at the altar by the priest or the deacon or the duly instituted acolyte who ministered the chalice. The same then purifies, wipes, and arranges the sacred vessels in the usual way.”
A
Ace86
Guest
*At the direction of Pope Benedict XVI, extraordinary ministers of holy Communion will no longer be permitted to assist in the purification of the sacred vessels at Masses in the United States.
The U.S. bishops had asked the Vatican to extend an indult – or church permission – in effect since 2002 allowing extraordinary ministers of holy Communion to help cleanse the Communion cups and plates when there were not enough priests or deacons to do so.*
The article concerns EMHC’s, not instituted acolyte.
The U.S. bishops had asked the Vatican to extend an indult – or church permission – in effect since 2002 allowing extraordinary ministers of holy Communion to help cleanse the Communion cups and plates when there were not enough priests or deacons to do so.*
The article concerns EMHC’s, not instituted acolyte.
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lrs
Guest
MrS,
so we meet again! I am going to call you the Shock Jock- I am deeply in my heart discerning the type of church community you would like us to be!
No more Lay Ministers distributing Communion- uhmmm!?
I suppose you may want to get very busy producing male children and quick- because as my Bishop says if not one Priest was ordain in the next 7-10 years in my Diocese-we will have 8 priests left out of about 45
You can always choose to run around the church and only go thru the line the Priest is in.
It is about a humble heart! Have Faith that it is God and God alone running the Show. Jesus has never abandoned this church.
Peace, Lisa
so we meet again! I am going to call you the Shock Jock- I am deeply in my heart discerning the type of church community you would like us to be!
No more Lay Ministers distributing Communion- uhmmm!?
I suppose you may want to get very busy producing male children and quick- because as my Bishop says if not one Priest was ordain in the next 7-10 years in my Diocese-we will have 8 priests left out of about 45
You can always choose to run around the church and only go thru the line the Priest is in.
It is about a humble heart! Have Faith that it is God and God alone running the Show. Jesus has never abandoned this church.
Peace, Lisa
N
netmilsmom
Guest
Maybe you should move.
We have four priests and eight seminarians.
The problem in your diocese may be the lack of openness to life. How big are your families? We average five children. Ten are not unknown. Lots of kids means better odds for priests.
And of course we have no Girl Altar Servers. That helps.
Thank God He is in charge of our Holy Mother Church and His humble servant B16 is righting the wrongs of the last 20 years.
N
netmilsmom
Guest
I’ve never seen you called Sunshine before!Great. Another directive from the Pope that can be ignored with impunity by most American priests and bishops.
Goody.
A
Asperges_Me
Guest
Some additional paragraphs from the CNS article
*Although receiving Communion under both kinds is a “more complete” sign of the sacrament’s meaning, Cardinal Arinze said, “Christ is fully present under each of the species.”
“Communion under the species of the bread alone, as a consequence, makes it possible to receive all the fruit of eucharistic grace,” he added.
Another “legitimate option” when “the high number of communicants may render it inadvisable for everyone to drink from the chalice” is intinction – the practice of dipping the consecrated host into the consecrated wine – “with reception on the tongue always and everywhere,” the cardinal’s letter said.
The committee document also suggested distribution of Communion by consecrated bread alone or by intinction when the number of communicants makes the purification of vessels by priests, deacons or instituted acolytes alone “pastorally problematic.”*
The tone of these paragraphs does seem to suggest that that this ruling by the Holy Father “if followed properly” will tend to limit some opportunities when Holy Communion is offered under both species. I never heard or saw purifying the vessels after Mass. It’s like leaving “dirty dishes” as one of the earlier posters said??? Of course, I usually try and get to the most conservative Novus Ordo’s available.
If the priest, deacons, or acolytes can just do the purification after Mass, then why is Cardinal Arinze talking about Communion only under one species, and intinction? This does not make sense. If one reads the whole article, there seems to be clearly be an attempt to cut down the “army” of EMHC’s at Mass. And this directive supposedly came from the Pope himself. Now let’s see who follows it and is “obedient”. Or is there just more ignoring and rationalization among those who claim to be “in Communion with the Holy See” only when talking about the Spirit of Vatican II.
Someone correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t this the first real directive of Pope Benedict’s papacy? Hopefully, this is the first of many more to come in short order.
*Although receiving Communion under both kinds is a “more complete” sign of the sacrament’s meaning, Cardinal Arinze said, “Christ is fully present under each of the species.”
“Communion under the species of the bread alone, as a consequence, makes it possible to receive all the fruit of eucharistic grace,” he added.
Another “legitimate option” when “the high number of communicants may render it inadvisable for everyone to drink from the chalice” is intinction – the practice of dipping the consecrated host into the consecrated wine – “with reception on the tongue always and everywhere,” the cardinal’s letter said.
The committee document also suggested distribution of Communion by consecrated bread alone or by intinction when the number of communicants makes the purification of vessels by priests, deacons or instituted acolytes alone “pastorally problematic.”*
The tone of these paragraphs does seem to suggest that that this ruling by the Holy Father “if followed properly” will tend to limit some opportunities when Holy Communion is offered under both species. I never heard or saw purifying the vessels after Mass. It’s like leaving “dirty dishes” as one of the earlier posters said??? Of course, I usually try and get to the most conservative Novus Ordo’s available.
If the priest, deacons, or acolytes can just do the purification after Mass, then why is Cardinal Arinze talking about Communion only under one species, and intinction? This does not make sense. If one reads the whole article, there seems to be clearly be an attempt to cut down the “army” of EMHC’s at Mass. And this directive supposedly came from the Pope himself. Now let’s see who follows it and is “obedient”. Or is there just more ignoring and rationalization among those who claim to be “in Communion with the Holy See” only when talking about the Spirit of Vatican II.
Someone correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t this the first real directive of Pope Benedict’s papacy? Hopefully, this is the first of many more to come in short order.
J
John_Lilburne
Guest
Pope Benedict has said that the only lay ministers who can do the purifications are instituted acolytes. He has refused the US bishops request for an indult on this, risking antagonism with them. It is an indication that he considers the ministry of instituted acolyte important, while many in the church tend to minimise, disregard or oppose it.
An instituted acolyte is an EMHC, from the 2004 Instruction Redemptionis Sacramentum:
“[155.] In addition to the ordinary ministers there is the formally instituted acolyte, who by virtue of his institution is an extraordinary minister of Holy Communion even outside the celebration of Mass.”
K
kleary
Guest
I was brought up to believe that you must receive Holy Communion at least once a year.
So it seems all the manhours to do all that work were not necessary. In fact it may be thought of as an abuse, since Exy. Mins are only there OUT OF NECESSITY.
Ken
D
Distressed
Guest
Why do I fear something like the following:
“Because our practice has become an Archdiocesan custom of over seventeen years, with both the Catholic faithful and the ministers accustomed to this practice, I am willing to grant exceptions to no. 192 of the General Instruction of the Roman Missal for legitimate reasons, such as the following: where we strive to use as many Special Ministers of the Altar and Sanctuary as possible that we leave too many dishes for the ordained to purify by themselves; when it would upset the female sacristan(s); when purifying the vessels would cut into the leisure time of the ordained as well as where we have not instituted the use of disposable paper communion vessels.”
This may very well be an interesting “test” of sorts for Pope Benedict XVI and Francis Cardinal Arinze…
“Because our practice has become an Archdiocesan custom of over seventeen years, with both the Catholic faithful and the ministers accustomed to this practice, I am willing to grant exceptions to no. 192 of the General Instruction of the Roman Missal for legitimate reasons, such as the following: where we strive to use as many Special Ministers of the Altar and Sanctuary as possible that we leave too many dishes for the ordained to purify by themselves; when it would upset the female sacristan(s); when purifying the vessels would cut into the leisure time of the ordained as well as where we have not instituted the use of disposable paper communion vessels.”
This may very well be an interesting “test” of sorts for Pope Benedict XVI and Francis Cardinal Arinze…
D
Distressed
Guest
Our bishop said flat-out: “if there were instituted lectors and acolytes, it would ultimately deprive women from their rightful place in the sanctuary.” :nope:
D
Distressed
Guest
My Lord, the language is SUBLIME!
*Noting that the General Instruction of the Roman Missal “directs that the sacred vessels are to be purified by the priest, the deacon or an instituted acolyte,” the cardinal said in his Oct. 12 letter that “it does not seem feasible, therefore, for the congregation to grant the requested indult from this directive in the general law of the Latin Church.”
Institute enough acolytes and we’ll see a practical end to altar girls and women!
Although receiving Communion under both kinds is a “more complete” sign of the sacrament’s meaning, Cardinal Arinze said, “Christ is fully present under each of the species.”
“Communion under the species of the bread alone, as a consequence, makes it possible to receive all the fruit of eucharistic grace,” he added.*
This sounds like it is directly aimed at the horrible misuse of EMsHC!
Another “legitimate option” when “the high number of communicants may render it inadvisable for everyone to drink from the chalice” is intinction – the practice of dipping the consecrated host into the consecrated wine – “with reception on the tongue always and everywhere,” the cardinal’s letter said.
This sounds as though it’s aimed at the practice of receiving in hand!
*Noting that the General Instruction of the Roman Missal “directs that the sacred vessels are to be purified by the priest, the deacon or an instituted acolyte,” the cardinal said in his Oct. 12 letter that “it does not seem feasible, therefore, for the congregation to grant the requested indult from this directive in the general law of the Latin Church.”
Institute enough acolytes and we’ll see a practical end to altar girls and women!
Although receiving Communion under both kinds is a “more complete” sign of the sacrament’s meaning, Cardinal Arinze said, “Christ is fully present under each of the species.”
“Communion under the species of the bread alone, as a consequence, makes it possible to receive all the fruit of eucharistic grace,” he added.*
This sounds like it is directly aimed at the horrible misuse of EMsHC!
Another “legitimate option” when “the high number of communicants may render it inadvisable for everyone to drink from the chalice” is intinction – the practice of dipping the consecrated host into the consecrated wine – “with reception on the tongue always and everywhere,” the cardinal’s letter said.
This sounds as though it’s aimed at the practice of receiving in hand!
S
scylla
Guest
I recently called by diocese and the lady who answered regarding the liturgy specifically stated we do not have acolytes because it is not inclusive for everyone.
When I objected and said it would not impede me from becoming one she argued against me saying it really means nothing and eventually just said she appreciated my comments…goodbye.
It seems that by force, we will become a circle of people holding hands being the family of God and enjoying each others company as that seems to be the intended focus of worship.
I have no problem allowing the Priest to cleanse the Communion vessels, I am there to serve, not try and be part of the focus of Mass. God should be the focus not the 20 or so people looking for attention up front.
(I know that they are just trying to participate but they should just participate in worship not being the focus)
God Bless
Scylla
When I objected and said it would not impede me from becoming one she argued against me saying it really means nothing and eventually just said she appreciated my comments…goodbye.
It seems that by force, we will become a circle of people holding hands being the family of God and enjoying each others company as that seems to be the intended focus of worship.
I have no problem allowing the Priest to cleanse the Communion vessels, I am there to serve, not try and be part of the focus of Mass. God should be the focus not the 20 or so people looking for attention up front.
(I know that they are just trying to participate but they should just participate in worship not being the focus)
God Bless
Scylla
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netmilsmom
Guest
Oh MY!
Have you ever considered moving to a more orthodox diocese?
Someone would truly appreciate you. I know my parish would.
L
lrs
Guest
Dear NetMIlls
Guess what, we have 18 Seminarians- my point is these priests are seniors, they are worn out!!!Can’t you get that???If lay ministry is increased it is by God’s Will-we adhere to the WILL of GOD in this CHURCH
Please Define Church
Please Define Community
Please Define Stewardship
Please Define the Unconditional Love Jesus has for us
Please Define Evangelization
Please Define Mercy and Forgiveness
Please be mindful that it is in the INTENTION of the RECEIVER in receiving Communion that is more important than the INTENTION of the GIVER- BECAUSE ULTIMATELY IT IS CHRIST AND CHRIST ALONE WHO IS GIVING TO YOU!!!IT IS JESUS YOU ARE RECEIVING, HE IS PRESENTWe are merely the vehicles in which the Love of God is presented and increased in the world.
I have no problem with you loving and being faithful to your Orthodox Church. No one is trying to shake the foundation out from under you.- I do have a problem of you wanting the majority of Priests and Lay People to go fly a kite who do not fall in your well defined and exclusive box-we love God as much as you, we love our Faith as much as you, we adhere to the authority of the Papacy as much as you.
Peace,
Lisa
The solution is not to just keep jumping churches-you will lose everybody.
M
MrS
Guest
Well, as Benedict XVI said " I am sorry if what I said offended you…"
But the strength of the Church is not in the laity.
It is in the Eucharist, (do the words source and summit of the faith sound familiar??)
No Priests, no Eucharist.
No Eucharist, no church
And there is no correlation with Extraordinary Ministers. I think they perfom a wonderful ministry in getting the Eucharist (there’s that word again) to the homebound or infirmed. God Bless them. Personally I do not feel capable of handling or touching the Lord.
But I notice that you used the words church community is asking what I invision.
Perhaps therein lies the answer. We are not first a community. The community aspects are only the fruits of the Mass and the sacraments. If the Mass and sacraments are the priority (and they require the priesthood, not the laity), then the fruits will follow.
The idea of putting such importance on the community is backawards. It works well in the communities of our separated brethren where the lay people are really all they have. But heaven forbid if we continue to “elevate” our community to the point of such* liturgical*** (not ministry to the homebound) prominence, and use the excuse of priest shortage.
The pope has already recognized this and has talked about the future church being smaller and stronger. I trust he also knows the condition of the current priesthood, the startling collapse of the church in Europe, and the growing numbers of great young men coming out of our seminaries. Good priests, in large numbers or small, are the strength of the Church.
Our “active participation” must be a spiritual support of them, the Mass, and the sacraments.
Meanwhile I will enjoy the 7 boys I already have, the 10 grandsons they have given me so far… and I will just have to walk, not run, to the priest to receive.
.
N
netmilsmom
Guest
testy, testy, testy.
I do not belong to an Orthodox church. I am Latin Catholic.
Maybe your priests would not all be seniors if the Priests were given the special role that God shined on them. Not a watered down “one of the guys” attitude. We only utililize EMHCs when truly needed, as it should be. Then again, Saginaw is turning around, Lord be praised. Maybe priests will come when the innovations are turned off.
Our Pastor is not yet 40. We have two others that are about the same age. Are you saying that your seminarians are seniors?
C
ComradeAndrei
Guest
This is a very positive first step. Hopefully we will be seeing more tightening up of various rubrics and the stamping out of abuses.
I think that “extraordinary” should mean rarely and for only very particular times-not every Sunday. If Communion takes an extra 5 min.-so be it.
I think that “extraordinary” should mean rarely and for only very particular times-not every Sunday. If Communion takes an extra 5 min.-so be it.
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