"Lay parish pastoral associates"

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I think this was addressed in a Vatican directive recently. I am too tired to find it tonight but I remember there was concern over lay people being named as parish administrators which is (??) reserved terminology for a priest who is in charge of a parish but is not a pastor yet. So we have these clumsy titles. The same thing happend with EMHC (which is hard to say even using just the initials 😉 ) because of the conflict created by using Eucharistic Minister which isn’t theologically correct to refer to a lay person distributing communion.
 
Sometimes I have the impression that some arguments go along the lines: Some women misuse such positions to push women’s ordination, therefore, women should not hold such jobs at all, and therefore this jobs should be non-existent :rolleyes:
 
Deacons are not usually compensated by the parish. Most deacons serve the parishes to which they are assignd as volunteers. They will perform various activities [visiting the sick, marriages, baptisms, funeral vigils, committals and memorial services [not a mass]] teaching CCD, RCIA, Confirmation, or visiting the sick, serving at mass including homilies. All of this for no compensation.

Unless they hold a paid parish position in additon to being a deacon [like a pstoral associate, business manager director of religeous education, etc] they earn their living in the market place just like the rest of the people.

So for those who say that every parish must hire deacons to serve as pastoral associates will have to contribute more than the average ‘catholic’ 1% [or less] of salary. If our deacons are going to stop earning n the market place and be compelled to “work” [for wages] from the church…then the church will have to compensate deacons for thier service.

Nearly every diocese in America has some parishes that are open and have no residential priest assigned to it. A lay pastoral administer functions to keep the parish open with a priest coming in tp celebrate the Sacraments [Mass, Reconcilliations, etc]. The day to day operations and administrations are performed by the ‘administer’. Without the lay person [or occassional deacon] these parishes would cease to exist…

Check out this book on the subject "The Dilemma of Priestless Sundays". by Father James Dallen.
 
Cran said:
Sometimes I have the impression that some arguments go along the lines: Some women misuse such positions to push women’s ordination, therefore, women should not hold such jobs at all, and therefore this jobs should be non-existent :rolleyes:
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I am in a parish with a woman who misuses this to push her agenda for women priests.

I have yet to see an orthodox woman run a parish, if anyone knows of one I would be very interested in this. I am sure there might be a couple but the problem is not women or men but the position itself.

Generally places with a priest shortage are more progressive and not so orthodox, so abuses are not the result of the lay parish person but because of the general environment they serve in. They are more the result of the environment as the progressive person fits into the position and then more abuse occurs. It is not the result of the lay parish person but they are just a part of the problem and not part of the solution. Unless they fight against the environment that has brought them in, by encouraging vocations, fidelity and piety.

Scylla
 
It seems as if there is some confusion regarding titles. The term “lay pastoral associate” usually is not used, just the title “pastoral associate.” A Pastoral Associate is not in charge of a parish. The title usually used for a person running a priestless parish is “Parish Life Coordinator.”

A Pastoral Associate is a title that has some confusion associated with it and there is some move to come up with a better title. The term the USCCB uses is “Lay Ecclesial Minister”, but that also includes volunteers who take on a leadership role in some ministry, DRE’s, Youth Ministers, Outreach Coordinators, RCIA director. Some parishes call all these people pastoral associates, just as Macy’s would call their employees “associates.”

The title “Pastoral Associate,” at least in our diocese (some diocese use the term “Pastoral Assistant”), has come to mean a person who works full time for a parish, who usually has a graduate degree in theology or ministry, and who assists the pastor in various aspects of parish life. It is not a secreterial or financial positon. It is more of a ministerial “generalist.” The person in this position usually has a hand in almost every aspect of parish life in one way or another. Our diocese has guidelines for a person in this postion and it is quite specific as to the duties and qualifications.
 
joelacour said:
I think it was in First Things that I first read about LPPA’s. The author was of the opinion that since a majority of the LPPA’s were female, it was a way for getting the “camel’s nose under the tent flap” in the push for female ordination.
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I think there is some merit to this suspicion. Take a look at what is going on in the Diocese of Pittsburgh. (Again, I can’t paste the whole article here, so please click the link and read the full piece in context.)
pittsburghcatholic.org/newsarticles_more.phtml?id=1987
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Diocese’s first parish life collaborator commissioned
The commissioning of Holy Family of Nazareth Sister Dorothy Pawlus as the first parish life collaborator in the Diocese of Pittsburgh is “a historic moment” for both St. Bartholomew Parish in Penn Hills, where she will serve, and for the diocese, said Bishop Paul Bradley, diocesan administrator.

**“It’s a red-letter day,” said Bishop Bradley, who commissioned Sister Dorothy at the 10:30 a.m. Mass July 15 at St. Bartholomew. “It’s a day that will be *a reference point ***in the diocesan archives for generations to come.”
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Code: 
 Bishop Bradley, in a pilot program, appointed Sister Dorothy as the diocese’s first parish life collaborator.
…
A PLC is a deacon or professional minister appointed by the bishop** to share in the exercise of pastoral care** of a parish. In collaboration with a priest director appointed by the bishop, the PLC, in assisting the priest director and the faithful, ensures that effective and qualified ministry is occurring in the parish.
…
Bishop Bradley: I hope and pray, ready not only to support Sister Dorothy, but also to embrace this historic moment, which calls all of us to be who God called us to be through our baptism in Christ,” he said.
…
Sister Dorothy said she and the parishioners will walk together “into the future and embrace a new model of leadership.”
“Bishop, your presence here today, is, to use your words, ‘bittersweet,’ because this new model of ministry is necessitated by a lack of vocations to the priesthood,” she said. “I pledge to you with our parishioners, our passionate commitment to praying for vocations to the priesthood. At the same time, I must admit that these last two months have been overwhelmingly exciting for our parish, our new ministerial team, and, I think, for the Church of Pittsburgh.
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It really does sound like they are reveling in this new form of ministry as a starting point towards a completely new Church structure. If this position really is just the result of undesirable circumstances, why is it constantly referred to as a “historic moment”?
 
Joannm said:
It seems as if there is some confusion regarding titles. The term “lay pastoral associate” usually is not used, just the title “pastoral associate.” A Pastoral Associate is not in charge of a parish. The title usually used for a person running a priestless parish is “Parish Life Coordinator.”

A Pastoral Associate is a title that has some confusion associated with it and there is some move to come up with a better title. The term the USCCB uses is “Lay Ecclesial Minister”, but that also includes volunteers who take on a leadership role in some ministry, DRE’s, Youth Ministers, Outreach Coordinators, RCIA director. Some parishes call all these people pastoral associates, just as Macy’s would call their employees “associates.”

The title “Pastoral Associate,” at least in our diocese (some diocese use the term “Pastoral Assistant”), has come to mean a person who works full time for a parish, who usually has a graduate degree in theology or ministry, and who assists the pastor in various aspects of parish life. It is not a secreterial or financial positon. It is more of a ministerial “generalist.” The person in this position usually has a hand in almost every aspect of parish life in one way or another. Our diocese has guidelines for a person in this postion and it is quite specific as to the duties and qualifications.
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So, what does this ministerial “generalist” do exactly in a basic workday?
 
Scotty_PGH said:
I think there is some merit to this suspicion. Take a look at what is going on in the Diocese of Pittsburgh. (Again, I can’t paste the whole article here, so please click the link and read the full piece in context.)

It really does sound like they are reveling in this new form of ministry as a starting point towards a completely new Church structure. If this position really is just the result of undesirable circumstances, why is it constantly referred to as a “historic moment”?
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Pittsburgh, Greensburg and Johnstown/Altoona all need to pray for vocations. Along with this is the need to pray for larger Catholic families and better teaching of what the Catholic Church actually believes. I wonder how many future priests, nuns and workers for Holy Mother Church have been aborted as being inconvenient right now. IMHO Only when the Church returns to teaching the full faith will the vocations come. The more we deligate to non-priests the fewer priests there will be.😦
 
stmaria said:
Most of you do not care for this site -Tradition in action but here is an interesting photo from their site.She is called a “pastoral assistant”

traditioninaction.org/RevolutionPhotos/A201rcPriestess.htm
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Exactly my point!
This is actually quite common with “Pastoral Assitants”
Hence my comment that Parish Deacons need to hold these positions. I understand that they do not pay well, but perhaps things need to be done to change that…
I have no suggestions, at the moment, but I probably will come up with some!
 
Will someone please tell me specifically what a “lay pastoral parish ministerial associate assistant” does on a day-to-day basis???
 
Sure said:
So, what does this ministerial “generalist” do exactly in a basic workday?
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It would vary according to pastoral needs. Most PAs are responsible for several ministries in a parish. There are general administrative duties, working with the DRE, youth minister, and other coordinators, pastoral planning with the pastor, visitations to parishioners, answering questions that may be called in during the day, writing petitions, writing articles for the bulletin, attending diocesan meetings, attending parish committee meetings, sending out letters with regard to ministries or the needs of specific parishioners, working with the parish school children in preparing them for liturgical celebrations, training those involved in liturgical ministries (lectors, EMs, Hospitality), Those are just some of the duties. SOme pastors require more or less of their PAs.
 
Joannm said:
It would vary according to pastoral needs. Most PAs are responsible for several ministries in a parish. There are general administrative duties, working with the DRE, youth minister, and other coordinators, pastoral planning with the pastor, visitations to parishioners, answering questions that may be called in during the day, writing petitions, writing articles for the bulletin, attending diocesan meetings, attending parish committee meetings, sending out letters with regard to ministries or the needs of specific parishioners, working with the parish school children in preparing them for liturgical celebrations, training those involved in liturgical ministries (lectors, EMs, Hospitality), Those are just some of the duties. SOme pastors require more or less of their PAs.
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What you have listed here is pretty much all administrative support that would be done by an administrative assistant/parish secretary, teachers, or volunteers. The other things (that I bolded) would be done by a priest and/or deacon. It seems to me that a pastoral associate is really a parish secretary or else someone who is pretending to be very busy despite having not much to do.
 
Sure said:
What you have listed here is pretty much all administrative support that would be done by an administrative assistant/parish secretary, teachers, or volunteers. The other things (that I bolded) would be done by a priest and/or deacon. It seems to me that a pastoral associate is really a parish secretary or else someone who is pretending to be very busy despite having not much to do.
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I assure you the position of a PA cannot be compared to a secretary or be given to a volunteer unless perhaps the parish is very small. A pastor cannot be all places at all times. The PA takes some of the workload off the pastor and reports directly to him. The working relationship between a PA and the pastor is one of trust and confidence. It is also a position that requres sufficient theological and pastoral education. As I stated, most PAs around here have MAs or doctorates in theology or ministry and are just as educated theologically as the ordained clergy they work with…some even more so.
 
It just struck me, the parish where I was registered before I moved to Texas (I ended up going regularly to an indult parish, as well as a more orthodox NO parish) doesn’t actually have a female “lay parish pastoral assistant”. They have a female “Assistant Pastor” :eek:

stmargaret.org/parish_staff.htm

(I don’t know if posting the link violates any rules - if so, please delete it).

Granted, the parish is huge, but there are 4 priests (Pastor, Associate Pastor, 2 in residence) and 6 deacons. This “assistant pastor” title is unnecessary (probably the position as well) and does nothing but contribute confusion, as if a woman could be the pastor of a Catholic parish :mad:
 
Joannm said:
I assure you the position of a PA cannot be compared to a secretary or be given to a volunteer unless perhaps the parish is very small. A pastor cannot be all places at all times. The PA takes some of the workload off the pastor and reports directly to him. The working relationship between a PA and the pastor is one of trust and confidence. It is also a position that requres sufficient theological and pastoral education. As I stated, most PAs around here have MAs or doctorates in theology or ministry and are just as educated theologically as the ordained clergy they work with…some even more so.
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So they do counseling and spiritual direction? We have one of those, we call her a counselor. And another person who volunteers as a “spiritual director”.
 
Sure said:
So they do counseling and spiritual direction? We have one of those, we call her a counselor. And another person who volunteers as a “spiritual director”.
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Some may do counseling or direction if they are qualified in that area. That would not be their only job, but one among many.
 
mtr01 said:
It just struck me, the parish where I was registered before I moved to Texas (I ended up going regularly to an indult parish, as well as a more orthodox NO parish) doesn’t actually have a female “lay parish pastoral assistant”. They have a female “Assistant Pastor” :eek:

stmargaret.org/parish_staff.htm

(I don’t know if posting the link violates any rules - if so, please delete it).

Granted, the parish is huge, but there are 4 priests (Pastor, Associate Pastor, 2 in residence) and 6 deacons. This “assistant pastor” title is unnecessary (probably the position as well) and does nothing but contribute confusion, as if a woman could be the pastor of a Catholic parish :mad:
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I’m speechless. :eek:
 
Joannm said:
Some may do counseling or direction if they are qualified in that area. That would not be their only job, but one among many.
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That’s what I’m getting at. What else would they do that would not be done by one of the other usual parish workers? It would seem that the only thing that they would do that could not be done by an administrator or coordinator would be counseling.
 
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