Lay Responsibility for Reporting Liturgical Abuses

  • Thread starter Thread starter drsberryhill
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
D

drsberryhill

Guest
Lately, the Holy Spirit has been slapping me around a whole lot and has put into my heart a longing for a pure liturgy! I have witnessed in my own parish multiple and ongoing liturgical abuses. In my readings from the GIRM and Redemptionis Sacramentum, I have discovered even more liturgical abuses that I didn’t even know where abuses! More troubling is the fact that there are liturgical abuses in every parish I have gone to visit over the last few years, and Catholic parishioners are either ignorant or apathetic towards these liturgy abuses. It seems like liturgical abuses are so common place that only a very few Catholics have seen a pure liturgy, free from abuse!
I am the first to admit that my catechesis, which I am working on, is very poor and much of the blame goes to myself. I have been clueless about my Catholic Faith for most of my life. In the article “The Top 10 Liturgical Abuses”, there was a powerfull statement near the end of the article that said (paraphrased) that the Catholic laity are not customers of the Church, they are the Church. I now realize that I have both a right and a responsibility as a Catholic to insure that the liturgy is performed in accordance with the Magisterial requirements. As a Catholic, I absolutely believe that the Magisterium is infallable and that ALL of its teachings are revealed to be true through the Holy Spirit! I don’t fully understand why many Catholic priests don’t view the Magisterial liturgical requirements the same way.
Now that I am no longer ignorant of these liturgical abuses, I am not exactly sure how to proceed in order to correct them. I know that looking for another Catholic Church parish is not the answer for me. Running from my responsibility only hurts the Catholic Church and my Catholic brothers and sisters who remain in my current Church, either through ignorance or apathy. The Redemptionis Sacramentum said to go to the Bishop, but is this after I talk to my parish priest? From the threads I have read on liturgical abuses, I did not see any discussion on how to properly report such occurences! I would appreciate any information or advice on how to proceed.
 
You should always speak to your priest first. I would, personally, follow that up with a letter to him, thanking him for his time and reviewing what you discussed. Be both cordiAl and respectful. If nothing changes, respectfully let your priest know that you intend to pursue the matter with the competent authority, ie., the bishop or anyone the bishop might have delegated to represent him in such a matter, like the vicar general or the chancellor. If that doesn’t work, write or speak to the bishop himself. Keep copies of everything. If that doesn’t address the matter, you can always appeal to the Holy See via the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments.

One word of caution: I’ve had to work long and hard to still the clamor of the “liturgy police” that used to sit in my head. Try not to get caught in the same place. I found it not at all conducive to my own worship at the Holy Sacrifice.
 
I know there is a proper procedure with documentation of each step for trying to report and correct liturgical abuses. I’m sure others here can give you the details.

I would counsel you to step back for a second. Put yourself in the pastor’s shoes. He may not realize that something is not being done the way it ought to be. Priests can have misconceptions just like us laity. Even though he may be allowing something that is prohibited by one or more Vatican documents, do not automatically assume that he is abusing the liturgy or trying to subvert authority or has some other nefarious intent. He is human. He is fallible. (I am certainly not going to discount the possibility that he is aware of what is going on and refuses to correct it).

You should also keep in mind that we are called to charity. You need to speak with the priest first. Approach him politely and with due respect and humility. You should also be prepared for the possibility that it is you who are wrong, and should welcome any correction from your pastor.

It is a rare church that is 100% free from any/all perceived abuses. Many times, expediency is the rule of the day, regardless of Redemtoris sacramentum or GIRM or anything else. Whatever process is followed, keep an open heart and an open mind. Also keep in mind that the Church represents the ideal, and we humans rarely meet the ideal.
 
I agree with some of the above posters.
  1. Write down your concerns including date and time, and quote from GIRM or whatever document you are using for proof of wrong behavior.
  2. Then talk to your Paster, or send him an email, including your contract information.
    It’s his job to make certain that his own Parish is in full accord with Church Teachings and requirements - and that includes any Priests under him.
    Whatever you do, make certain he gets something in writing, because he is a busy man. And can not be expected to remember the details of everything.
  3. If that does not work, contact your Diocese Bishop with the same information. Asking him to handle it.
  4. In rare cases, you may have to send an email to the Vatican as a last resort.
I sent an email to my Pastor, with the documentation. Rec’d a letter from him saying he would take care of it immediately.

He also took care of 3 or 4 other lessor abuses I did not mention to him. 👍

People are noticing the change in the Masses since they are more reverant, and comments are very positive.
It started with one email (and no one knows except me and the Pastor).

You may be saving Souls. This is the Charitable thing to do…
catholicherald.co.uk/news/2011/03/03/cardinal-bad-masses-weaken-the-faith/
 
There is a difference between real, pernicious, abuses and things which are just local custom or that the priest has no idea are considered abuses. So, as the above poster said, don’t play “liturgy police” – no priest wants someone to come up to him every Sunday with a list of complaints and critiques about the Mass and the homily and it’s simply not conducive to a prayerful environment.

If you could give some examples, it might help to understand your concerns. Many people see abuse where there is none.
 
As a Catholic, I absolutely believe that the Magisterium is infallable and that ALL of its teachings are revealed to be true through the Holy Spirit!
Click to expand...
This is probably overstating the Catholic position. Not every single thing the Magisterium (the teaching authority of the Church) states is infallible, only dogmas and fundamental moral teachings. The Church is Divine, yes, but She is also quite human.
 
So are you talking about this article: The Ten Most Common Liturgical Abuses: And Why They’re Wrong?

Here’s the list:

1. Disregarding the prescribed text of the Order of Mass.

It mentions “gingerbread for the Eucharist at children’s Masses.” Ack! That’s not even a Mass anymore, gingerbread is not valid matter as it is not really bread (even if that’s in the name) but rather it is a cookie. That is so sad that priests would be so confused as to do that!

The worst one was with a visiting priest (my decent priest was away, the diocese sent someone else, someone very disturbing). He announced that the earliest form of the Creed was simply the Holy Name of Jesus and so we all just said “Jesus” and that was the Creed. He also bragged about doing other forbidden things at other Masses, like giving Communion to infants (it’s fine and good in the East, but it is forbidden in the West). The whole Mass was a travesty, I didn’t receive Communion but I probably should have just walked out and reported him (or recorded it on my phone).

2. Interrupting the Mass.

I’ve seen that a lot, priests who like to stop the Mass so they can tell a story or a joke or whatever (not just at the beginning but in the middle).

3. Omitting the penitential rite.

I’ve seen that a lot. It can be replaced with the sprinkling rite but I’ve seen it just skipped a lot. I’ve rarely seen the sprinkling rite (only on major feast days, same with incense).

4. Replacing or omitting the homily.

I’ve mostly seen it with appeals by nuns in retirement (with their cardigans and pins, it’s no wonder no young women want to join and hang out at the senior center – not helping at the senior center but living at the senior center!), missionaries, etc.

5. Dictating posture.
6. Dictating the manner of reception of the Eucharist.
7. Ignoring rules for reception of the Eucharist.

8. Holding hands during the Our Father.

I just don’t like holding some old guy’s sweaty hand… and I hate it if someone grabs my hand. It’s just silliness! I feel like singing “We Are the World”.

9. Performing liturgical dance.

I’ve thankfully only seen this once, at a Protestant church.

10. Closing the holy water fonts at some seasons.

I’ve heard of emptying the holy water fonts all lent, even replacing it with sand to emphasize the “desert” aspect. That’s so confused!

Which of these things do you think your parish is doing? The holding hands during the Our Father is so widespread, it’s essentially unstoppable. As long as the priest isn’t encouraging it (and sometimes they do, by joining hands as well), what can you do?
 
It may also be helpful to keep in mind that sometimes the priest is forced into the situation by the laity.

There was a post not so long ago about a priest who tried to remove liturgical abuses and the parish organized walk outs and strikes until the priest caved in and allowed some of them again.

If the priest seems to agree with you that they are abuses but is worried about the reaction from the parish, you could offer your assistance and become more involved in the mass. For instance, you could become involved in the liturgy committee (if there is one) and start to defend the Church’s liturgy more directly.

The above posters hit it on the nose, however. The bottom line is to be constructive, not just try and fight a war.
 
I want to thank each one of you for your reply. Thanks for educating me about the infalability of the Magisterium also. I did talk to a Priest from another parish today and he agreed that there may be some problems after listening to me. He strongly encouraged me to pray and spend some time in an Adoration chapel, which I plan to do, before I do anything. He also said the matter needs to be presented to my Priest with Charity. I whole heartily agree! I do not want to be the “liturgy police” and and I have no desire to be at odds with my parish Priest. I do accept the fact that there will almost always be a human element involved in the liturgy. I do strongly believe that I must, however, speak when there are major liturgical abuses. Once I have informed my Priest, and then the Bishop if needed, I can at least feel that I have lived up to my responsibility.
The article from Catholic Answers titled The Ten Most Common Liturgical Abuses: And Why They’re Wrong? is were I paraphrased from, but I think some of the bottom paragraphs were left out of the post. As far as the abuses I see and truly believe need to be changed are:
  1. At Easter Vigil, the newly baptized were placed in the sanctuary during the
    consecration
  2. Purification of vessels is done by EMHC’s
  3. The sacrarium were the purification is done empties straight into the sewer. (I have
    mentioned this to our previous Priest and I know our new Priest has been informed
    of this.)
    Again thanks to each of you that replied to my post. Please keep me in your prayers.
 
Whoa!!! If you are seeing the three things you list, then your anxiety is more than justified! Esp. serious is the last one!
 
drsberryhill said:
I 3. The sacrarium were the purification is done empties straight into the sewer. (I have
mentioned this to our previous Priest and I know our new Priest has been informed
of this.).
Click to expand...
If I can ask, how do you know it dumps straight into the sewer? Can you see the plumbing involved at all?
 
MuchAfraid said:
This is probably overstating the Catholic position. Not every single thing the Magisterium (the teaching authority of the Church) states is infallible, only dogmas and fundamental moral teachings. The Church is Divine, yes, but She is also quite human.
Click to expand...
This is the correct teaching on the infallibility of the MAGISTERIUM. (bold print within CCC quote is mine)
On matters of Faith and Morals only, - the Magisterium is infallible.
Remember that Bishops Conferences by themselves are not the Magisterium.
There is no infallibility regarding science, politics, historical, philosophical, geographic or any other matters.

CCC - " 890 The mission of the Magisterium is linked to the definitive nature of the covenant established by God with his people in Christ.
It is this Magisterium’s task to preserve God’s people from deviations and defections and to guarantee them the objective possibility of professing the true faith without error.
Thus, the pastoral duty of the Magisterium is aimed at seeing to it that the People of God abides in the truth that liberates.
To fulfill this service, Christ endowed the Church’s shepherds with the charism of infallibility in matters of faith and morals. The exercise of this charism takes several forms."

CCC - “100 The task of interpreting the Word of God authentically has been entrusted solely to the Magisterium of the Church, that is, to the Pope and to the bishops in communion with him.”
 
smichhertz said:
It may also be helpful to keep in mind that sometimes the priest is forced into the situation by the laity.

There was a post not so long ago about a priest who tried to remove liturgical abuses and the parish organized walk outs and strikes until the priest caved in and allowed some of them again.

If the priest seems to agree with you that they are abuses but is worried about the reaction from the parish, you could offer your assistance and become more involved in the mass. For instance, you could become involved in the liturgy committee (if there is one) and start to defend the Church’s liturgy more directly.

The above posters hit it on the nose, however. The bottom line is to be constructive, not just try and fight a war.
Click to expand...
Each Priest and Bishop has an obligation to conform to GIRM (General Instruction of the Roman Missal).
It the Laity wants to go against GIRM, the Paster must and will talk to his Bishop regarding how to handle the solution -if needed.
Under no circumstances can any Laity dictate any changes to the GIRM.
usccb.org/liturgy/girm/index.shtml
 
Yes. The sacrarium ties into the sink drain just above the pea trap. Someone that used to work in the church office said it would cost $50,000 to crack slab and put sacrarium drain into the ground. This was several years ago. It was so much easier being an ignorant Catholic!
 
The United States of America is democracy, people have the responsibility for their leaders. We the people delegate the right to govern to out leaders.

The Church is not democracy, Jesus Christ, and not we the people delegates the rights to govern. People are not responsible for their pastors, that is entirely the responsibility of the bishop. .

This means that no one commits grave sin if sees some abuse in his parish, and do not report it to the appropriate authorities (local pastor, Ordinary, Apostolic See) In other hand to chew on supposed abuses in forums like this may be sin.
 
Brendan said:
If I can ask, how do you know it dumps straight into the sewer? Can you see the plumbing involved at all?
Click to expand...
There are churches which don’t have a sacrarium – we don’t have one. Our church is built on a slab, no foundation, no basement, only enough space dug to accommodate plumbing which often freezes in the -40 weather. A sacrarium would be dumping onto frozen earth for a good part of the year so would soon be unusable. If something requires pouring into the ground, it’s poured into the flower bed in front of the church.
 
  1. Purification of vessels is done by EMHC’s
  2. The sacrarium were the purification is done empties straight into the sewer. (I have
    mentioned this to our previous Priest and I know our new Priest has been informed
    of this.)…Are you sure they are purifying them and not just washing them? Ou priest purifies them at the altar, then after Mass they are washed by the EMHC at a sink that empties into a sewer, which is quite different since no body or blood are present.
 
Phemie said:
There are churches which don’t have a sacrarium – we don’t have one. Our church is built on a slab, no foundation, no basement, only enough space dug to accommodate plumbing which often freezes in the -40 weather. A sacrarium would be dumping onto frozen earth for a good part of the year so would soon be unusable. If something requires pouring into the ground, it’s poured into the flower bed in front of the church.
Click to expand...
I have no doubt that your church does not have a sacrarium, but when a previous poster says that his church’s sacrarium drains into the sewer, either he was mistaken about calling it a sacrarium or he is mistaken about the plumbing. So the question about the plumbing remains.
 
laszlo said:
The United States of America is democracy, people have the responsibility for their leaders. We the people delegate the right to govern to out leaders.

The Church is not democracy, Jesus Christ, and not we the people delegates the rights to govern. People are not responsible for their pastors, that is entirely the responsibility of the bishop. .

This means that no one commits grave sin if sees some abuse in his parish, and do not report it to the appropriate authorities (local pastor, Ordinary, Apostolic See) In other hand to chew on supposed abuses in forums like this may be sin.
Click to expand...
Since we emphasize the Church is not a democracy, it is also well to clarify that the diocesan bishop is not “middle management” in the equation either. Not that the previous post necessarily implies this, but you sometimes get that feeling from discussions on this topic. For the most part the local bishop’s decision will be final in his diocese. Appealing to Rome is not simply “the next level up” if the bishop doesn’t change his mind or take the action you want. You will probably get more of an advisory response from Rome, but there’s not really an enforcement mechanism - no secret police that works directly for the Pope or anything like that. The bishop can enforce his authority within the diocese in a variety of ways, but the Vatican won’t do much besides send a letter.
 
zab said:
I have no doubt that your church does not have a sacrarium, but when a previous poster says that his church’s sacrarium drains into the sewer, either he was mistaken about calling it a sacrarium or he is mistaken about the plumbing. So the question about the plumbing remains.
Click to expand...
True enough, if it drains into the sewer it’s a sink, not a sacrarium.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top