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Mickey
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The Jews were not Christians prior to Christ. During Christ’s earthly life some became followers and afterward some became Christians.
I’m not your little mouse. In fact, I’m a rather large man.
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Mickey
Guest
Yes. Christ was telling us about heaven and hell amongst other things. Now you are getting it.
No I don’t. Jp2 was quite clear. Read it again slowly: …Lazarus is carried away to heaven, whilst the rich man falls into the netherworld of torments."
Yes I can.
Thank you. That is point of this thread. We can all go home now.
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rinnie
Guest
Not quite so fast there. We are talking about Pope Benedict here. He said that we can indeed use this parable for Purgatory.Yes. Christ was telling us about heaven and hell amongst other things. Now you are getting it.
No I don’t. Jp2 was quite clear. Read it again slowly: …Lazarus is carried away to heaven, whilst the rich man falls into the netherworld of torments."
Yes I can.
Thank you. That is point of this thread. We can all go home now.
Now you admit Pope JPII was not talking about purgatory, so you cannot use his statement to mean he did either. So you cannot say that he said this parable could not mean purgatory. Pope John Paul II just showed how money means nothing to God. His money got him no where. Thats what he was showing us. To watch what we are doing, money can be evil if we let it. And it will not mean squat in saving our souls.
As I said parables have many many teachings.
Now what do you have to say about Pope Benedicts opinion on this parable. He was quite clear he was talking about Purgatory. The point of this whole thread.
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rinnie
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Also you said Jesus was talking about heaven, hell amongst other things. Like Purgatory. Now you are getting it.
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Mickey
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No he did not.
Of course I admit it.
It was not about money. He was condemned for his lack of virtues–especially the lack of compassion.
It has nothing to do with money.
I already addressed that many times.
No.
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Mickey
Guest
No. Like compassion.
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rinnie
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This parable ties into purgatory here is the quote:
In this the text CLEARLY testifies to the fact that the earliest CHRISTIANITY SHARED IN FAITH of contemporary Judaism about the BEYOND. unquote.
Then he goes on to say So much that we can say without even entering into the question of whether in the parable are overhearing the Ipsissima vox of Jesus himself.
Same with the Parable of the good thief. Here TOO the Jewish background is PALPABLE.
Right there he said they connect to Purgatory. He said we begin to see the Christian transformation of the inherited Jewish tradition at work.
I am sorry Mickey thats what the Pope said. You cannot change his words. He said they tie in together there is no way to deny it.
So have a great weekend!
In this the text CLEARLY testifies to the fact that the earliest CHRISTIANITY SHARED IN FAITH of contemporary Judaism about the BEYOND. unquote.
Then he goes on to say So much that we can say without even entering into the question of whether in the parable are overhearing the Ipsissima vox of Jesus himself.
Same with the Parable of the good thief. Here TOO the Jewish background is PALPABLE.
Right there he said they connect to Purgatory. He said we begin to see the Christian transformation of the inherited Jewish tradition at work.
I am sorry Mickey thats what the Pope said. You cannot change his words. He said they tie in together there is no way to deny it.
So have a great weekend!
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rinnie
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Also the parable did have to do with Money. Lazarus had nothing and the rich man had alot. THe rich man could have helped Lazarus because he had the means to do so. But he choose not to. If he would have help Lazarus with his money and did right by him he would not have had the fate he did.
It did also have to do with the man having money, if not he would not have been called the RICH man. It would and could have just be a man.
It did also have to do with the man having money, if not he would not have been called the RICH man. It would and could have just be a man.
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Benadam
Guest
you guys are still at it? I thought realcatholicgk spoke on this matter.
C.mon , eternity entered time and human history.
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Realcatholicgk
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**
Hi Ben,
If God doesn’t get you for that remark. I will! :manvspc: Just let them have their fun :slapfight: rinnie sometimes even wins an argument!
Did you know that the story of Lazarus and the Rich man has always been one of the most discussed parables from the Bible
“And He said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand” (Luke 8:10).
This strange assertion by the Lord Jesus was given in answer to the question of the disciples: “Why speakest thou unto them in parables?” (Matthew 13:10).
Most people have the notion that His parables [described by some as earthly stories with a heavenly meaning] were for the purpose of helping people who were ignorant of spiritual truths to understand these truths. That isn’t true as you can see even from the discussions here. To understand any parable just read the explanation of the RCC. There is no other way!
“Therefore speak I to them in parables,” He said, “because . . . this people’s heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they . . . should understand with their heart, and should be converted” (Matthew 13:13,15).
But is not that what He wanted, you ask? No, because He knew they really didn’t want to understand.Kind of like some of the Protestants who come here. He wanted only those to understand who “in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience” (Luke 8:15).
OK Benadam, I have spoken! you can go back to sleep now!
God Bless**
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Sir_Knight
Guest
rinnie, you’ve done an EXCELLENT job of explaining this to those who clearly misunderstood. 
I’m 280 pounds if anybody cares.
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Benadam
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:yawn: :hypno:Hi Ben,
If God doesn’t get you for that remark. I will! :manvspc: Just let them have their fun :slapfight: rinnie sometimes even wins an argument!
Did you know that the story of Lazarus and the Rich man has always been one of the most discussed parables from the Bible
**“And He said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand” (Luke 8:10). **
**This strange assertion by the Lord Jesus was given in answer to the question of the disciples: “Why speakest thou unto them in parables?” (Matthew 13:10). **
**Most people have the notion that His parables [described by some as earthly stories with a heavenly meaning] were for the purpose of helping people who were ignorant of spiritual truths to understand these truths. That isn’t true as you can see even from the discussions here. To understand any parable just read the explanation of the RCC. There is no other way! **
**“Therefore speak I to them in parables,” He said, “because . . . this people’s heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they . . . should understand with their heart, and should be converted” (Matthew 13:13,15). **
**But is not that what He wanted, you ask? No, because He knew they really didn’t want to understand.Kind of like some of the Protestants who come here. He wanted only those to understand who “in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience” (Luke 8:15). **
**OK Benadam, I have spoken! you can go back to sleep now!
God Bless
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Realcatholicgk
Guest
**OMG, I am hoping you are 7’6" or taller!rinnie, you’ve done an EXCELLENT job of explaining this to those who clearly misunderstood.
God Bless
**
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wisdomseeker
Guest
as i see it. it tells me not by faith alone.I am perplexed about something. It seems that many Roman Catholics have a major misunderstanding about the meaning of this parable. Some people think that it is a proof of purgatory. Others think that the rich man is able to repent** AFTER** he dies. As a Roman Catholic, I do not recall ever being taught about this parable. But as an Eastern Catholic (and now Orthodox) there are very deep and meaninful teachings on this parable (the Eastern Catholic is in line with the Orthodox).
Does the Roman Catholic Church have an official interpretation of this parable? I will post comments from steve B who thinks it is purgatory and that the rich man is showing perfect charity in the after life!
Then there is the post by rinnie that makes reference to a “sincere” rich man showing repentance after death.
Finally I have copied a post that I submitted.
What say the rest of you? I would like to read replies from Catholics, protestants, and Orthodox.
Thank you.
:byzsoc:
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rinnie
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Sir knight coming from you that was a heck of a compliment. You know my respect level for you is immense. And I am 5’4" 145. Trying to get back to 135 for summer, Mickey makes me stress eatrinnie, you’ve done an EXCELLENT job of explaining this to those who clearly misunderstood.
. But hey its me, you Steve B and the Pope, thats pretty good company in my book. I am reading his book on Eschatology now. He did indeed use that parable and said it ties Jewish Tradition into Christian Tradition. Hope it warmed up for you this weekend. It was 55 here felt like 80. I have learned so much from you Sir Knight.Steve B, I met a new friend. Ben you are a class act. You treated me with nothing but respect even if we may not see exactly eye to eye. Thank-You.
And then theres RC my partner in crime. I still love you RC you are right up there with Sir Knight, Except we are a little bit smarter then you sometimes.:rotfl. I really do learn alot from you too. You are also one of my very very favorites.
Mickey, You do make me laugh. You are priceless. And to everyone thank-you and God Bless you all.
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Sir_Knight
Guest
Thank you
On that note, I think we should put this one to bed.
On that note, I think we should put this one to bed.
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Realcatholicgk
Guest
Sir knight coming from you that was a heck of a compliment. You know my respect level for you is immense. And I am 5’4" 145. Trying to get back to 135 for summer, Mickey makes me stress eat. But hey its me, you Steve B and the Pope, thats pretty good company in my book. I am reading his book on Eschatology now. He did indeed use that parable and said it ties Jewish Tradition into Christian Tradition. Hope it warmed up for you this weekend. It was 55 here felt like 80. I have learned so much from you Sir Knight.
Steve B, I met a new friend. Ben you are a class act. You treated me with nothing but respect even if we may not see exactly eye to eye. Thank-You.
And then theres RC my partner in crime. I still love you RC you are right up there with Sir Knight, Except we are a little bit smarter then you sometimes.
**Hi rinnie,
You just said that because I am originally from Pennsylvania also. :compcoff: So the Steeler won! So what!!! I did pray the Rosary I owed you
You guys are alot smarter then me all the time.I use to tell everyone that I had over 18 years of education, then I was told that I couldn’t count the 4 years in the 5th grade and 6 in the 7th grade.
However, I am proud of my GED Certificate!
God Bless **
Mickey, You do make me laugh. You are priceless. And to everyone thank-you and God Bless you all.
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Realcatholicgk
Guest
…Does the Roman Catholic Church have an official interpretation of this parable? I will post comments from steve B who thinks it is purgatory and that the rich man is showing perfect charity in the after life! …
**Hi Mickey,
Quick answer ~ Not really! However, Within the last century, Catholic exegetes have commonly came to accept the story as a parable whos main purpose is to teach the evil result of the neglect of others.
Lazarus was rewarded, not because he was poor, but for his virtuous acceptance of poverty; the rich man was punished, not because he was rich, but for vicious neglect of the opportunities given him by his wealth to do good.
Actually there are many meanings which can be derived from this story. The rewards according to the state of repentance of a man’s life; Also it outlines the concept that if one will not listen to the Bible or those preaching it, then they would not listen, even if someone was raised from the dead. I think some people may us it to prove or disprove purgatory
Also the parable did have to do with Money. Lazarus had nothing and the rich man had alot. THe rich man could have helped Lazarus because he had the means to do so. But he choose not to. If he would have help Lazarus with his money and did right by him he would not have had the fate he did.
It did also have to do with the man having money, if not he would not have been called the RICH man. It would and could have just be a man.
**
Hi rinnie,
You “almost got it” But of course am wrong!
But it did show you are thinking!
God Bless**
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rinnie
Guest
I prayed too RC. I would not forget about you. Wish we had 70 but soon, Can’t wait. Its gonna be 55 today, will love to get out there. Take care my friend. And I love your sense of humor. I could not imagine living without laughing everyday. And least most of the days. Whoever said laughter is the best medicine did know what they were talking about thats for sure.
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Mickey
Guest
Well, we are closing in on 900 posts…and what is the conclusion. Some people think that the parable is an apologetic for purgatory…and others do not. Thank you all for participating. It has been…interesting.
May God bless you all.
May God bless you all.
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