LCMS and JDDJ (Joint Declaration the Doctrine of Justification)

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aidanbradypop said:
A Mass is different than a community prayer service.
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It may be, but for some, the line may not be so precise.
I also think theologians, bishops, and pastors can dialogue knowing each others’ difference. That is, after all, the reason for dialogue, overcoming our differences.

Jon
 
aidanbradypop said:
How can the LCMS and the Catholic Church ever have dialogue if your pastors cannot even do a prayer service with other Christians?
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How would that stop us from having dialogue? I think this ^^ kind of post just makes us sound arrogant.
 
Peter_J said:
🙂 Which is guess leads into my question, How would that stop us from having dialogue?
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Well the LCMS and CC have not had much dialogue. I was wondering if their not wanting to be a part of interfaith services be a reason for the lack of talks.
 
aidanbradypop said:
Well the LCMS and CC have not had much dialogue. I was wondering if their not wanting to be a part of interfaith services be a reason for the lack of talks.
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I think you are mistaken in this, Dustin. In the dialogue here in America between the USCCB and Lutherans, the LCMS has been involved in all but one of the, I believe, 11 rounds. A proper criticism of us is perhaps a reluctance to sign on to the more international dialogues such as the JDDJ. I certainly don’t believe the limits on clergy being involved in interfaith services is in any way a cause for this.

Jon
 
JonNC said:
I think you are mistaken in this, Dustin. In the dialogue here in America between the USCCB and Lutherans, the LCMS has been involved in all but one of the, I believe, 11 rounds. A proper criticism of us is perhaps a reluctance to sign on to the more international dialogues such as the JDDJ. I certainly don’t believe the limits on clergy being involved in interfaith services is in any way a cause for this.

Jon
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Hence why I asked the question. Ugh
 
JonNC said:
Well, the answer has more to do with doctrine, not fellowship practices.

Jon
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Ok let me ask it like this…can future declarations and talks go further if the LCMS dropped that practice or is it not really an issue and more of a doctrinal issue?
 
aidanbradypop said:
That does not help the dialogue. Kind of comes across as do not sit with them or people will think you are friends with them.
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Ack! That’s not it at all - I happily go to Catholic Mass, and several of my Catholic friends go to our Lutheran Mass when they lose wagers to me.

It’s just that we don’t thing a blended Catholic/Lutheran Mass is appropriate at this time until we have full unity.
 
JonNC said:
I always surprised when Catholics take this stand, as they too have particular conditions for worship, etc. are you ready to have a joint mass with Lutherans pastors participating as celebrants? Probably not. Now I will say the synod did not handle either the recent Newtown, or the 911 Yankee Stadium situations well. Hopefully, they’ve learned the lesson, that sometimes there needs to be flexibility.

Jon
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Catholics consider Mass (Worship)different than National Prayer services. I thought the LCMS did the best they could with the doctrine they have.

I wouldn’t want my Church to sell out their doctrine for a prayer service but I am happy my
Church participated in that service without doing so. It was the charitable thing to do and potential converts to Christianity abound. Where sin abounds, grace abounds all the more and we can be conduits of that grace by grieving together as a Nation. We’re able to be flexible for our Doctrine is not so exclusive such as to have U and S clauses.

Mary.
 
aidanbradypop said:
Ok let me ask it like this…can future declarations and talks go further if the LCMS dropped that practice or is it not really an issue and more of a doctrinal issue?
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I think the limits on what our clergy can and cant do regarding fellowship is irrelevant to dialogue between us, neither hindering nor helping dialogue.

Jon
 
JonNC said:
I think the limits on what our clergy can and cant do regarding fellowship is irrelevant to dialogue between us, neither hindering nor helping dialogue.

Jon
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Ok…that’s what I was wondering
 
=MaryT777;11065380]Catholics consider Mass (Worship)different than National Prayer services. I thought the LCMS did the best they could with the doctrine they have.
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Yes, and Lutherans understand the difference, too. The concern is the appearance of unionism and syncretism. IOW, how it appears to others.
I actually thought we could have done a much better job, myself. As much as I love Pres. Harrison, I thought is was handled awkwardly, at best.
I wouldn’t want my Church to sell out their doctrine for a prayer service but I am happy my Church participated in that service without doing so. It was the charitable thing to do and potential converts to Christianity abound. Where sin abounds, grace abounds all the more and we can be conduits of that grace by grieving together as a Nation. We’re able to be flexible for our Doctrine is not so exclusive such as to have U and S clauses
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👍

Jon
 
benjohnson said:
Ack! That’s not it at all - I happily go to Catholic Mass, and several of my Catholic friends go to our Lutheran Mass when they lose wagers to me.

It’s just that we don’t thing a blended Catholic/Lutheran Mass is appropriate at this time until we have full unity.
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Sometimes it’s confusing to read the posters here LCMS for I know a ton of LCMS Lutherans and ELCA Lutherans and neither ever talk about a Lutheran " Mass".

Here it’s Worship.
 
MaryT777 said:
Sometimes it’s confusing to read the posters here LCMS for I know a ton of LCMS Lutherans and ELCA Lutherans and neither ever talk about a Lutheran " Mass".

Here it’s Worship.
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The typical LCMS language is “Divine Service”.

The confessions, OTOH, use the term “mass”. From the Augsburg Confession
1] Falsely are our churches accused of abolishing the Mass; for the Mass is retained among 2] us, and celebrated with the highest reverence. Nearly all the usual ceremonies are also preserved, save that the parts sung in Latin are interspersed here and there with German hymns, which have been added 3] to teach the people. For ceremonies are needed to this end alone that the unlearned 4] be taught [what they need to know of Christ].
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Jon
 
MaryT777 said:
Sometimes it’s confusing to read the posters here LCMS for I know a ton of LCMS Lutherans and ELCA Lutherans and neither ever talk about a Lutheran " Mass".

Here it’s Worship.
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I know what you mean. Similarly, some Eastern Catholics will correct anyone who calls the EC Divine Liturgy “the Mass” … but there are other ECs who will themselves call it “the Mass”.
 
MaryT777 said:
Sometimes it’s confusing to read the posters here LCMS for I know a ton of LCMS Lutherans and ELCA Lutherans and neither ever talk about a Lutheran " Mass".
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I call it Mass so we’re all on the same page - there’s some other terms that I flip-flop on: Godparents/Sponsors and Eucharist/Holy Communion for example.

Though, I really don’t like the etymology of the word Mass - it’s a contraction of “Ite, missa est” and sort of means “dismissal.” Sadly, it doesn’t mean “mission” - that would be a much nicer meaning.
 
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