LCWR leaders announce 'honest sharing of views' with Vatican delegate, but no plans for reform

[Robert_Bay]

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[Julian_Bashir]

Let me see if i understand this. Because you say you are a monk or some kind of cleric or member of a religious order, I’m not supposed to challenge you when accuse “the laity” of being “cruel” and “underhanded” because we address things that affect us and our children that you don’t think are “any of our business”?

I’m not buying that. When the Church is undermined by dissidents on national media and in schools by people in religious orders, and especially when secular politics is their game, it is absolutely my business and that of the laity. I obey the Pope and I obey my own bishop, and I obey my confessor, but I don’t have to obey you just because you are a member of a religious order. How does that “tree of obedience” go again?

Yep. I suspect as you said, the woemn in the LCWR will due in dialogue with the vatican. There is no desire to serve or obey. This is not to disparage them, but simply a statement of fact.

Let’s hope when they are gone, their ilk, their most recent memories, and their most recent negative, anti-Catholic impressions will be gone as well, and we can recall a time when their orders did a lot of good. I spent years being taugh by some wonderful sisters, and i fear their order has waned over these many years as well.

 

[CaptFun]

LCWR Assembly: Little Evidence of Willingness to Comply With Reforms

August 20, 2013

pressreleases.religionnews.com/2013/08/20/lcwr-assembly-little-evidence-of-willingness-to-comply-with-reforms/

Ann Carey, considered by many to be the foremost expert on women religious, and whose book, SISTERS IN CRISIS REVISITED, spends an entire chapter reporting on the CDF doctrinal assessment of the LCWR, and includes for readers the actual Vatican document as an Appendix, had this reaction:

“The LCWR statement indicates that the sisters continue to look for a ‘third way’ alternative to avoid reform of the LCWR while still retaining its status as a canonically-erected superiors’ organization. The statement shows no intention to work on the reforms, but rather to continue dialoguing with Archbishop Sartain, as they have been doing for over a year.

Perhaps the biggest clue about the LCWR’s intentions is found in the press release’s quotation from the address to the assembly by LCWR president, Sister Florence Deacon, OSF. Sister Florence said that the LCWR’s ‘situation reflects larger questions and concerns,’ including ‘understandings of authority, faithful dissent, and obedience; and the need for spaces where honest, probing questions about faith and belief can be raised and discussed.’”

• See more at: pressreleases.religionnews.com/2013/08/20/lcwr-assembly-little-evidence-of-willingness-to-comply-with-reforms/#sthash.BOm5HkoX.dpuf

 

[livingwordunity]

CDF - Doctrinal Assessment of the Leadership Conference of Women Religious

II. The doctrinal Assessment

The decision of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith (CDF) to undertake a doctrinal Assessment of the Leadership Conference of Women Religious (LCWR) was communicated to the LCWR Presidency during their meeting with Cardinal William Levada in Rome on April 8, 2008. At that meeting, three major areas of concern were given as motivating the CDF’s decision to initiate the Assessment:

Addresses at the LCWR Assemblies. Addresses given during LCWR annual Assemblies manifest problematic statements and serious theological, even doctrinal errors. The Cardinal offered as an example specific passages of Sr. Laurie Brink’s address about some Religious “moving beyond the Church” or even beyond Jesus. This is a challenge not only to core Catholic beliefs; such a rejection of faith is also a serious source of scandal and is incompatible with religious life. Such unacceptable positions routinely go unchallenged by the LCWR, which should provide resources for member Congregations to foster an ecclesial vision of religious life, thus helping to correct an erroneous vision of the Catholic faith as an important exercise of charity. Some might see in Sr. Brink’s analysis a phenomenological snapshot of religious life today. But Pastors of the Church should also see in it a cry for help.

Policies of Corporate Dissent. The Cardinal spoke of this issue in reference to letters the CDF received from “Leadership Teams” of various Congregations, among them LCWR Officers, protesting the Holy See’s actions regarding the question of women’s ordination and of a correct pastoral approach to ministry to homosexual persons, e.g. letters about New Ways Ministry’s conferences. The terms of the letters suggest that these sisters collectively take a position not in agreement with the Church’s teaching on human sexuality. It is a serious matter when these Leadership Teams are not providing effective leadership and example to their communities, but place themselves outside the Church’s teaching.

Radical Feminism. The Cardinal noted a prevalence of certain radical feminist themes incompatible with the Catholic faith in some of the programs and presentations sponsored by the LCWR, including theological interpretations that risk distorting faith in Jesus and his loving Father who sent his Son for the salvation of the world. Moreover, some commentaries on “patriarchy” distort the way in which Jesus has structured sacramental life in the Church; others even undermine the revealed doctrines of the Holy Trinity, the divinity of Christ, and the inspiration of Sacred Scripture.

No comment.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Personally, I like to contribute to orders like www.sistersoflife.org.

Click on their website and see how young they are. I’m guessing their average age is about 30. Most of them have nursing or other medical degrees, though some have degrees in psych. Some few are still being educated. Know what they do? They live in a convent and pretty much split their time between work and community prayer.

Their work is with pregnant women in horrible neighborhoods in New York City. They help them materially and spiritually and medically, and persuade them to allow their babies to be born rather than aborted. The psych trained among the sisters provide counseling to women who have had abortions and psych problems because of it. They provide housing for the women if need be, and help them get jobs.

They also give retreats for young subteen girls. One of my granddaughters attended one of them. About half of the girls were white girls from a variety of homes. About half were black girls from the ghettoes. It was a deeply moving experience for all of them from what my granddaughter told me, and the girls became very close despite the tremendous differences in their backgrounds. Not bad at all in the racially-charged society we live in.

Oh yes, and these sisters are also “street missionaries”. Because they actually wear habits, people know they’re nuns, and they are constantly approached by people who left the Church but want to maybe come back, who are burdened with sin or other troubles, who might be interested in the Church or at least SOME church.

And they are not workers for any political party.

Now to me, those are real religious women. One day, I think, we will see more vocations because of nuns like those. Takes awhile for word to get around that there are orders who actually do live in community, who are not dissenting, who really do “hands on” work for
the poor, and who have rich prayer lives.

Lots of people don’t know there are orders like that. But look at their photos. These women are the “cream of the crop” about every way there is to be that, and yet they are drawn to a life that many think nobody would join.

It’s always darkest before the dawn, they say. I think orders like these are the first glimmerings of a dawn following a very dark night.

 

[livingwordunity]

Thank God for Mother Angelica and her nuns, and thank God for Blessed Mother Teresa and her nuns. They are models of religious life, and I have the utmost respect for them and other nuns like them.

 

[CaptFun]

Thank God for Mother Angelica and her nuns, and thank God for Blessed Mother Teresa and her nuns. They are models of religious life, and I have the utmost respect for them and other nuns like them.

:yup:
:clapping:

:nun1:
:angel1:

 

[MarcoPolo]

This paragraph is part of a regulation that was drafted by the CDF under the papacy of John Paul II. The document is called Mutuae Relationes. The entire document was sent to bishops and major superiors. As I said, I have never heard of the system being used. This is a situation where it would have applied, but it was not used. However, not through anyone’s fault. I think it was simply forgotten that it existed.

No. The CDF’s ruling was that it must be a council of major superiors and bishops from the local conference of bishops. Bishop Sartain does not represent the USCCB. He represents the CDF.

But that’s not an issue right now. The dialogue between Bishop Sartain and the sisters seems to be positive. What they are really saying, we won’t know until it happens. Reporters can only tell us what they see and hear. The LCWR and the Bishop are not going to talk confidences in public until they reach an agreement of some kind.

Remember the dialogue between the SSPX and the CDF. The CDF never said anything. It was individuals within the SSPX and followers of the SSPX who were doing all the commenting and they got it all wrong. They even accused Cardinal Levada of changing the Preamble behind Pope Benedict’s back only to find out hat Pope Benedict told Bishop Fellay that it was he (the pope) who had added to the Preamble at the 11th hour.

We must be very careful not to do to the sisters what we did to the CDF during the dialogue with the SSPX and accuse people of things when we have no idea what is really happening behind closed doors.

It’s not a pastoral guideline. It was a rule for a system to resolve issues between religious and bishops. It was meant for bishops and religious superiors, not for the general public.

I still do not see anything in Mutatae Relationes describing this oversight you say the CDF made. Nor do I see which comment by the Franciscans articulates that specific claim that a violation was made by CDF (deliberately or otherwise). Nor do I see what was the CDF’s response to the allegation.

 

[McCall1981]

This article doesn’t add much new info, but from EWTN:

ewtnnews.com/catholic-news/US.php?id=8318

 

[Ridgerunner]

This article doesn’t add much new info, but from EWTN:

ewtnnews.com/catholic-news/US.php?id=8318

The article you cite doesn’t give a whole lot of room for optimism that the LCWR will reform.

One is inclined to wonder a little about the impoverishment of the Church in America. Catholics are not big givers of late. Enormous assets have gone down the drain in the molestation lawsuits. Huge assets are in the hands of dissidents who will never return them to the faithful who contributed toward their acquisition, or to the Church. It is my belief that the Church in the U.S. is very much pressed for funds.

Since operating new and growing orders of faithful sisters costs a lot, but since those orders don’t have huge asset bases to help in their funding, one wonders whether the various bishops are acting to sufficiently fund the growth of the faithful orders.

 

[Tigg]

The article you cite doesn’t give a whole lot of room for optimism that the LCWR will reform.

One is inclined to wonder a little about the impoverishment of the Church in America. Catholics are not big givers of late. Enormous assets have gone down the drain in the molestation lawsuits. Huge assets are in the hands of dissidents who will never return them to the faithful who contributed toward their acquisition, or to the Church. It is my belief that the Church in the U.S. is very much pressed for funds.

Since operating new and growing orders of faithful sisters costs a lot, but since those orders don’t have huge asset bases to help in their funding, one wonders whether the various bishops are acting to sufficiently fund the growth of the faithful orders.

Yet the faithful sisters seem to thrive and I know the laity helps fund the orthodox orders such as these wonderful Dominicans of Mary, Mother of the Eucharist, who are members of the Council of Major Superiors of Women Religious (CMSWR,) not the LCWR.

sistersofmary.org/

IIRC, it was last year that they laid plans for a national expansion and said they had a crisis of a new kind - so many novitiates coming in they did not have room to house them all. The average age of the sisters is 28. Fresh, young faces all eager to serve God in complete obedience to the Church.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Yet the faithful sisters seem to thrive and I know the laity helps fund the orthodox orders such as these wonderful Dominicans of Mary, Mother of the Eucharist, who are members of the Council of Major Superiors of Women Religious (CMSWR,) not the LCWR.

sistersofmary.org/

IIRC, it was last year that they laid plans for a national expansion and said they had a crisis of a new kind - so many novitiates coming in they did not have room to house them all. The average age of the sisters is 28. Fresh, young faces all eager to serve God in complete obedience to the Church.

I’m not sure most Catholics really know which orders are faithful to the teachings of the Church and which ones are not. Nor do I think most Catholics are cognizant of the financial needs of some of the orders like the one you mentioned. Undoubtedly, things like Ann Carey’s books and article in the National Catholic Register can be helpful in that way. Also, threads like this can be at least a beginning place for peoples’ search to find those orders that really do promote the missions and teachings of the Church.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Yet the faithful sisters seem to thrive and I know the laity helps fund the orthodox orders such as these wonderful Dominicans of Mary, Mother of the Eucharist, who are members of the Council of Major Superiors of Women Religious (CMSWR,) not the LCWR.

sistersofmary.org/

IIRC, it was last year that they laid plans for a national expansion and said they had a crisis of a new kind - so many novitiates coming in they did not have room to house them all. The average age of the sisters is 28. Fresh, young faces all eager to serve God in complete obedience to the Church.

Looked at your post again, and recognized the order. (duh) My son went to Law School in Ann Arbor and was very familiar with the order. He thought a lot of them. Very good schools, but also very expensive, unfortunately.

It strikes me as a great tragedy that so much of the “capital” of the Church in America has been wasted in the last few decades. Some was lost in the lawsuits. Some was lost when some of the religious orders decided to go dissident. Some was lost in the very process of “secularization” of Catholic hospitals and universities. And vast human capital was lost by decimation of the religious orders that staffed the Catholic institutions.

It is my prayer that the faithful orders flourish and grow. But even so, they will be faced with a lack of capital for a very long time due to the profligate waste of what Catholics and religious orders of former times built.

The waste is truly Dante-esque.

 

[Tigg]

Looked at your post again, and recognized the order. (duh) My son went to Law School in Ann Arbor and was very familiar with the order. He thought a lot of them. Very good schools, but also very expensive, unfortunately.

It strikes me as a great tragedy that so much of the “capital” of the Church in America has been wasted in the last few decades. Some was lost in the lawsuits. Some was lost when some of the religious orders decided to go dissident. Some was lost in the very process of “secularization” of Catholic hospitals and universities. And vast human capital was lost by decimation of the religious orders that staffed the Catholic institutions.

It is my prayer that the faithful orders flourish and grow. But even so, they will be faced with a lack of capital for a very long time due to the profligate waste of what Catholics and religious orders of former times built.

The waste is truly Dante-esque.

Agreed and through the waste we have become so impoverished even as it relates to our Catholic identity. I remember the richness the nuns passed along to us, even through the smallest of things, such as their insistence that we make the sign of the cross when driving by a Catholic Church to remind ourselves that Jesus is there. It was not academics but a true planting of the seeds of faith in our hearts. God bless them.

 

[livingwordunity]

I remember the richness the nuns passed along to us, even through the smallest of things, such as their insistence that we make the sign of the cross when driving by a Catholic Church to remind ourselves that Jesus is there. It was not academics but a true planting of the seeds of faith in our hearts. God bless them.

The Passionist Nuns of Saint Joseph Monastery appears to be good. I can tell they are orthodox because of the links listed on their website which include the Baltimore Catechism, LifeSiteNews, National Catholic Register, St Paul Center for Biblical Theology, and the Holy See.

 

[McCall1981]

This is a recent article by Sr. Joan Chittister, about Archbishop Sartain’s homily to the LCWR. It doesn’t look like much progress has been made yet in the LCWR reform, at least for her personally (Fr. Z brings up the possibility that she is acting as a kind of proxy for the LCWR).

There are some very upsetting things said about the Blessed Virgin Mary here

I link to Fr. Z’s site because the original on NCR has been edited as Fr. Z points out in his commentary. Here is the article:

wdtprs.com/blog/2013/09/sr-joans-moral-equivalence-between-archbp-sartains-view-of-mary-and-islamic-fulla-doll/

 

[Ridgerunner]

This is a recent article by Sr. Joan Chittister, about Archbishop Sartain’s homily to the LCWR. It doesn’t look like much progress has been made yet in the LCWR reform, at least for her personally (Fr. Z brings up the possibility that she is acting as a kind of proxy for the LCWR).

There are some very upsetting things said about the Blessed Virgin Mary here

I link to Fr. Z’s site because the original on NCR has been edited as Fr. Z points out in his commentary. Here is the article:

wdtprs.com/blog/2013/09/sr-joans-moral-equivalence-between-archbp-sartains-view-of-mary-and-islamic-fulla-doll/

Sr. Chittister has been involved in the LCWR leadership for decades. It appears to me the leaders are all of one mind.