LCWR ready to defy hierarchy, analyst finds [CC]

[Joe_5859]

I don’t think they expect to be replaced, not by religious anyway. Some even say that’s their goal. If the Church does declare some of these orders’ status revoked, nothing will change. They will still claim to be the “real Catholic Church”. They will still condemn “patriarchy” in the Church. They will still be dissident and heretical. They will retain their (sometimes considerable) assets and remain the private left-wing and radical feminist foundations some of them actually are already, eventually under radical lay leadership.

Religious women in the U.S. mostly have to “start over”, though there are still some long-established orders that are faithful to the Church. Some are getting new applicants, but my impression is that the new orders are getting most of them.

I don’t know if I’d go so far as to say it is their goal, but I do think it is expected as inevitable and there is an attempt to embrace it as an opportunity.

Years ago, I had a friend go to talk by a sister who made the bold claim that God was no longer using members of religious orders in the life of the Church but was moving in a different direction. Rather than take a look at what they might be doing wrong to result in a dearth of vocations, it was assumed that they were doing everything right and that God had simply shifted gears.

It is all rather sad. Many of these orders were founded by saints and have wonderful histories (up until Vatican II at least). But now they are dying off. Thankfully, there are some great new orders that are filling the void.

 

[Joe_5859]

Looking at their last annual report, it appears that a lot of the organization is focused on leadership development/training, and media relations/communication. Representing US religious congregations to the Vatican is there but doesn’t appear to be a major activity.

I’m left wondering what would happen if either side were to say “enough is enough” and the Vatican dropped their recognition of LCWR. They could still continue with their leadership development activities and their communication activities. They simply wouldn’t make trips to Rome or have to deal with the CDF. So what is there to lose? There must be something or they would have stopped talking to Archbishop Sartain a long time ago, but I’m not sure what they get from the Vatican.

I think they have never met an opportunity for dialogue that they would refuse to take. My guess, is they would stay in that place of dialogue indefinitely if they could.

 

[SuscipeMeDomine]

I think they have never met an opportunity for dialogue that they would refuse to take. My guess, is they would stay in that place of dialogue indefinitely if they could.

It may very well be as simple (or as principled) as that. They don’t want to be the ones to cut off the conversation.

 

[commenter]

Looking at their last annual report, it appears that a lot of the organization is focused on leadership development/training, and media relations/communication. Representing US religious congregations to the Vatican is there but doesn’t appear to be a major activity.

I’m left wondering what would happen if either side were to say “enough is enough” and the Vatican dropped their recognition of LCWR. They could still continue with their leadership development activities and their communication activities. They simply wouldn’t make trips to Rome or have to deal with the CDF. So what is there to lose? There must be something or they would have stopped talking to Archbishop Sartain a long time ago, but I’m not sure what they get from the Vatican.

By continuing the dialogue indefinitely, they get free publicity. The LCWR is heavily media-dependent. There are hundreds of anti-Catholic atheist or fundamentalist groups that would love to get the free media coverage they get. When Fr. Kung, then later Fr Curran, were “decertified” by the Vatican, they got a brief burst of publicity, since then much less than they had while they were still recognized theologians.

There are a few “Catholic” colleges and high schools in my area that have mostly secularized, but seem to know just how secular they can go without being “unrecognized” as Catholic by the Diocese. They don’t cross that line, not out of fidelity, but they know they would lose some of their supporters. They love to stay in that “grey” area, and the media gives them coverage when they do something bad, more coverage than they give to a public school that does the same thing.

If the LCWR did formally break with the Catholic Church, or if the Church broke with them, some of the moderate congregations would pull out. It would be “the last straw”.

Prayer is the most effective way for CAF readers to respond to this situation.

 

[manualman]

By continuing the dialogue indefinitely, they get free publicity. The LCWR is heavily media-dependent. There are hundreds of anti-Catholic atheist or fundamentalist groups that would love to get the free media coverage they get. When Fr. Kung, then later Fr Curran, were “decertified” by the Vatican, they got a brief burst of publicity, since then much less than they had while they were still recognized theologians.

Call me cynical, but I think this is spot-on. When Fr. Matthew Fox (finally) got censured by the church, he left and promptly was relegated to obscurity. Keeping a nominally catholic affiliation gives them a pulpit and potential donor access they’d utterly lack if they had the stand on the merits of their own achievements and reputation.

 

[SuscipeMeDomine]

Call me cynical, but I think this is spot-on. When Fr. Matthew Fox (finally) got censured by the church, he left and promptly was relegated to obscurity. Keeping a nominally catholic affiliation gives them a pulpit and potential donor access they’d utterly lack if they had the stand on the merits of their own achievements and reputation.

Except…I don’t think anyone donates to the LCWR. They donate to the Sisters of St. Joseph or the Daughters of Charity, and the SSJs or the DCs would continue to exist whether they were part of the LCWR or not.

I think Commenter may be correct that some congregations would drop out of the LCWR (or join whatever parallel group might form in addition to belonging to the LCWR) if they were no longer recognized by the Vatican.

 

[Holly3278]

This is incredibly sad. We need to pray for the LCWR that they would humble themselves and be willing to submit to reform.

 

[commenter]

Except…I don’t think anyone donates to the LCWR. They donate to the Sisters of St. Joseph or the Daughters of Charity, and the SSJs or the DCs would continue to exist whether they were part of the LCWR or not.

I think Commenter may be correct that some congregations would drop out of the LCWR (or join whatever parallel group might form in addition to belonging to the LCWR) if they were no longer recognized by the Vatican.

The Conference of Major Superiors of Women Religious was recognized as a second “liaison” type forum. It is fully in union with the Church. The LCWR fought the recognition of the second liaison. If the LCWR is decertified, the second liaison group would become the only one.

The LCWR would go on, denouncing the Catholic hierarchy, just as NETWORK does. It would closely align with the Democratic Party and the Media. I suspect the more moderate member communities would join the CMSWR. The more radical ones wouldn’t. I think some bishops might then stop listing those radical communities in their diocesan directory, and stop promoting them in any way in terms of vocations, or the diocesan newspaper. Those “hardline” communities would continue seeking donations of course, especially from older Catholics, who remember what those communities used to be. A lot of Catholic individuals and organizations keep giving money to the same convents automatically every year, including the radical ones. If you do some research, you might persuade them to divert their gift to one of the newer communities, that is currently faithful.
Prayer is the best response you and I can make.

 

[CaptFun]

Gnostic, sophist, condescending, only occasionally credible in the parts about the charitable work maybe - overall it was pretty dense with a lot of verbiage that seemed more to obfuscate than to clarify.

I wonder about the property thing too. I don’t think they should continue to get a free ride when they’re not working with the Church. But it’d be hard to separate the weeds from the wheat, both practically and legally. Might cost more $$ in court fees and the only ones benefiting at the end would be the lawyers. Dunno.

The chasuble-like garments - my first thought was "the draperies in ‘The Sound of Music’ . . . "

http://www.jotracey.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/TheSoundofMusic-Still1.jpg http://www.catholicworldreport.com/Content/Site140/Articles/08_01_2014/3315careyjpg_00000002584.jpg

Chasuble like garments vs. Sound of Music drapery togs. I had to do a side by side comparison there. Vestments and clothing is not the queasiest part of the story to me.

The dear Dominican Sisters who taught me in grammar school, and some from other orders in my Catholic High School had traditional habits … which DID say something about who they were - even before you really got to know them. In my Senior year there were some newer (hipper!) nuns of the young variety (1968-69) and I still remember the offhanded remark of a female classmate to another upon seeing them … “They look sort of like airline stewardesses!”

I get more at ease when I hear people who dedicate their lives to Jesus … talk about Jesus … and share His teachings and invitation. When the social justice stuff starts using language and images that remind me too much of the class warfare rhetoric of 18th Century Socialists my attention drifts elsewhere.

One good thing. Something in the story reminded me of Speedee Alka-Setzer’s haircut and … plop, plop, fizz, fizz … I feel better now.

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

 

[3DOCTORS]

Media accounts often use the figure that the LCWR “represents” 80% of American sisters. It should be emphasized that the LCWR is an organization of individuals, who make up maybe 3% of American sisters. Suppose a member of your parish council decides to join a national organization. Later that organization claims to “represent” the 1200 members of your parish.
Well, maybe they do, maybe they don’t.

Even that 80% is probably outdated now, as those orders have shrunk since that figure was first used, and other orders, where no leader belongs to the LCWR, have grown.

In my area, one religious community has some sisters who are obviously much different from the positions taken by the LCWR. Those sisters are “counted” in that 80%. When a sister has belonged to a community for 40 or 50 years it is extremely difficult to leave - she still has her vocation, she still has close relationships to her sisters, who are her “family” regardless of their opinions. She still has her ministry.

Good point about the numbers.

Sisters, quite naturally, don’t like non-sisters telling them how to live, especially people who never have known “religious life”, including laity and diocesan priests and bishops.

When they were faithful to the Church, I can’t imagine it was the stumbling block it has become after the misapplication of the “spirit of Vatican II” and the influence of radical feminism. Even in my relatively conservative diocese, I remember nuns offering community programs in the 1980s and 90s that were new age, gnostic, and wiccan influenced. If you read Donna Steichen’s book Ungodly Rage, you will be shocked at some of what went on and in some places still does. (I wish that book would come out in an updated edition - and I hope to get a chance to read the new edition of Sisters In Crisis as well.)

As a layperson with family members in the convent, I believe the issues are complex, so the solutions will be too, and must be charitable. As evil as the LCWR is, avoid ridiculing it. It doesn’t help any. In letters to the editor, internet postings, or conversations, point out that the 80% figure is a lie. In fact, a huge percentage of LCWR-claimed sisters are retired, and most of the others are in non-ministries like pottery or politics. A majority of sisters currently active in Catholic ministries belong to communities that have nothing to do with LCWR. Find a way to affirm and publicize religious communities that are faithful. Make information about them available to girls in your parish, Catholic school, family.

The LCWR needs to be dealt with by the proper authorities, and by sisters themselves.

Nothing personal intended. I respect the more insider perspective you have. The fashion police may still have something to say about those “chasu-draperies,” npatrol: but there again, only a few seem to be wearing them . . .

Call me cynical, but I think this is spot-on. When Fr. Matthew Fox (finally) got censured by the church, he left and promptly was relegated to obscurity. Keeping a nominally catholic affiliation gives them a pulpit and potential donor access they’d utterly lack if they had the stand on the merits of their own achievements and reputation.

I think you’re right. It’s unfortunate, though, how many of his and like-minded gnostic and other heretical influence remains in certain corners of the Church, though, where it can filter into catechesis (RCIA, PSR, etc.) practically undetected. Dan Brown would be proud.

 

[MarcoPolo]

I think they have never met an opportunity for dialogue that they would refuse to take. My guess, is they would stay in that place of dialogue indefinitely if they could.

Can you imagine if the Church accommodated Arius if he had asked for dialogue to continue….

 

[Joe_5859]

Can you imagine if the Church accommodated Arius if he had asked for dialogue to continue….

St. Nicholas would not have approved.

 

[CaptFun]

(Per this headline …)

Oh, dear. What have they BEEN doing?

 

[twf]

(Per this headline …)

Oh, dear. What have they BEEN doing?

It was, what, 30 years ago or so when the president of LCWR demanded that Pope John Paul ordain women to the priesthood? 30 years later Rome is still showing infinite patience with them…gently, lovingly, dialoguing. 30+ years of explicit, obvious, public defiance and promotion of heresy, and Rome’s patience continues to be beyond my comprehension. Yet Rome is painted as a monster persecuting the poor old sisters.