If this were true you would be a Christian. But because of Joseph Smith and the choices you have made you are not.
That’s exactly where my early education in the Catechism came from, shortly before the changes of Vatican II. All of our early catechisms were based on the Baltimore. Yeah, I’m that old.
In other words, it really is because Mormon beliefs about God in the Holy Trinity are not Christian as defined by the Catholic Church. If they were, then their Baptisms would be valid. Apparently, Mormon beliefs are seen to be so far apart from those of even other Christians, the Catholic Church declares them to be a completely different religion, along the same lines as paganism or other non-Christian religions, and not Christian at all. The Catholics that have posted in this thread and others have tried to tell you the same thing, but you refused to believe it and claim that we were wrong and being ‘uncharitable’ by stating it. The truth is the truth. The fact that you didn’t want to believe we were telling the truth, isn’t our fault. We are not taught to lie in order to cover up for the Church, nor to support it. There is no such thing as “lying for the lord” in Catholicism.
wow, you really have the whole Evangelical script on Mormons memorized word for word. Are you really Catholic? You don’t sound like any Catholic I know.
Sorry, but I had never heard of the concept of “lying for the lord” until I was told about it by a Mormon (not ex). But, contrary to your belief, the ex-Mormons (and Mormon friends) that I’ve known, and been in contact with in various places on the web (and, no, I don’t mean ‘anti-Mormon’ websites), do not ‘bash’ Mormonism for the sake of being mean, or only due to ‘sour grapes’, even though they do tend to have good cause in many cases. They usually tell people the truth about it so that those who might be inclined to be fooled by someone telling them, ‘We believe the same thing!’, won’t be as likely to be fooled. They’ve learned that being Catholic means that they can always tell the truth about our faith, and our Church, without worrying about how it might look or sound to others, as long as they’re sure that they’re correct. (Yes, we’re that sure about it.)
Don’t be so sure. I never heard about it until I was told about it by an Evangelical who was pretending to be a mormon.
I agree. They are trying to save our souls. By lying.
I have never pretended that Catholics and Mormons believe the same things. But we do not believe the things that the Evangelicals tell you that we believe.
I’m not ashamed of my beliefs. There are aspects of our *history *that I’m not proud of, but if you don’t understand the difference between your faith and your history, then you should get out more. There are Catholics on this site that know what I’m talking about.We follow it because we know that it’s the only true faith. We don’t have to apologize for any of it, because it is what it is. No question. Period.
You must have very smart infants.
Sorry, but I had never heard of the concept of “lying for the lord” until I was told about it by a Mormon (not ex). But, contrary to your belief, the ex-Mormons (and Mormon friends) that I’ve known, and been in contact with in various places on the web (and, no, I don’t mean ‘anti-Mormon’ websites), do not ‘bash’ Mormonism for the sake of being mean, or only due to ‘sour grapes’, even though they do tend to have good cause in many cases. They usually tell people the truth about it so that those who might be inclined to be fooled by someone telling them, ‘We believe the same thing!’, won’t be as likely to be fooled. They’ve learned that being Catholic means that they can always tell the truth about our faith, and our Church, without worrying about how it might look or sound to others, as long as they’re sure that they’re correct. (Yes, we’re that sure about it.)
Our faith is a ‘take it or leave it’ thing that doesn’t shift itself, or conform, just to make someone else feel more ‘comfortable’ with it. We have plenty of doctrines and practices that make people outside the Church scratch their heads (to say the least), but we don’t back down from any of them because it’s all the Truth about God, that came to us directly through Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost. We follow it because we know that it’s the only true faith. We don’t have to apologize for any of it, because it is what it is. No question. Period.
Yes, yes, I am a very ‘Old School’ Catholic. Guilty as charged. (I don’t imagine there are too many like me, left. When I was a kid, there was nothing* but* the Latin Mass.)
Cradle to grave… except for that short period in my late teens and early twenties when I thought I ‘knew it all’ and went ‘searching’. I guess I could blame it on watching certain TV shows and celebrities (D&M among others) that all seemed to be so ‘perfect’ that it made me wonder.
Don’t be so sure. I never heard about it until I was told about it by an Evangelical who was pretending to be a mormon.
I’m sorry to say it, but many Mormons have openly admitted that they were encouraged to tell ‘holy lies’ if they were cornered about certain beliefs that they needed to refute with ‘apostates’ from other churches. In fact, if I remember correctly, it originally came from something that Joseph Smith said. Maybe for some reason you missed that particular teaching in your learning of the LDS faith? It might just be from Mormons in a different area of the country that hold different versions of the faith. In any case, the person that told me about it was someone I knew for a long while (several years), and she was definitely Mormon.
Do they never come in here pretending to be Catholics?
I have no idea. I haven’t been here for a long while, but I do have my suspicions that not everyone that posts on these forums is truthful about their faith or other claims that they make. It’s the interwebz. People tend to lie a lot more than tell the truth about who they are and what they believe. I’m never surprised about much of anything, especially on open forums like this. Some people disagree just to be disagreeable. Trolls are everywhere, too.
I agree. They are trying to save our souls. By lying.
I have never pretended that Catholics and Mormons believe the same things. But we do not believe the things that the Evangelicals tell you that we believe.
Aren’t you one of those (among others) that’s always telling us that our beliefs are practically the same, while we keep saying that your interpretations of our beliefs are based on your own LDS POV, and not on any of our definitions? I get my info from LDS.
I’m actually pleasantly surprised that and the almost positive response of some people here to our doctrine of a Heavenly Mother. I hadn’t thought that Catholics would connect that to Mary, although I know of two Mormon theologians that made that connection. I don’t bring that up to say that we’re the same (we’re not!), but rather we should be able to better understand each other. We aren’t aliens. You’ve dealt with people historically who you called Christians, who were far more different from you than we are.
This comes as no surprise to me because it was my first reaction when I first heard about the LDS ‘heavenly mother’. I find it interesting that some LDS are considering making the connection official since the LDS church seems to be focused on trying to appear to be more ‘mainstream’ and Christian, even more ‘Catholic’. I’m not so sure it’s any better than claiming that the Father has a body of ‘flesh & bone’, though. I’m not sure if their intent is to get some kind of recognition from the RCC or not, but I doubt it will really change anything in the RCC position on the validity of the LDS faith. There are way too many enormous gaps between us for that to ever happen, unfortunately.
I’m not ashamed of my beliefs. There are aspects of our *history *that I’m not proud of, but if you don’t understand the difference between your faith and your history, then you should get out more. There are Catholics on this site that know what I’m talking about.
I wouldn’t expect you to be ashamed of your beliefs. If you were, then you might be going to RCIA instead of defending it here on these forums.
I completely understand the difference between history and faith, but to Catholics, our faith & history are fused together, forever. They’re inseparable (like our God). They reinforce each other and keep the Truth, constant. We learn from our past mistakes and move on, but we hold onto our history and our doctrines. They don’t get changed when we find them to be ‘inconvenient’. We never let them go. It keeps us honest, and humble.
Some of our beliefs are practically the same. Some of our beliefs seem practically the same to me, but you folks seem to think they are miles apart. Some of our beliefs seem miles apart to me, while you folks don’t see much of a distinction. Some of our beliefs are absolutely identical. And some of our beliefs are miles apart by anyone’s standard.
*Official? * They are? That would be news to me. I’ve only known two mormons that ever suggested such a connection, and they aren’t church leaders. Barring some sort of revelation, like a personal appearance to the Brethren in the Salt Lake temple, I don’t think such a declaration is forthcoming. After all, the LDS church has a reference to the Heavenly Mother in our Hymns, and it’s been there since the 1840s, and only in the 1990s did the church even take the preliminary steps towards canonizing her as doctrine.
I’m not actually defending my beliefs here. I’m defending my people and myself against hideous fabricated charges.
So you say, and of many Catholics that’s true. But click on my icon, look at what I’ve said in the past 3 days, and I think you’ll see that I’ve frankly discussed and disclosed more “inconvenient” history of my church here than you have yours in the last month. I don’t think it’s fair for you to scold me about openness.
You’re not parroting the Evangelical script against Mormons, so why should I think that you’re an evangelical? All you do is keep asking questions that I’ve already answered. That technique does not require Evangelical “anti-cult” training; you could have learned it from any 4 year old.
I don’t know, but my wife is God’s fairy godmother.
Peter Christian, many parents choose to vaccinate their children, many parents choose to Baptize their babies.
I was just poking fun of Miriam’s claim that *everyone *who gets baptized “MUST go through RCIA or similar classes to learn about the faith.” I did not mean to slight anyone’s religious practices; was just joking at the expense of someone who was slighting mine.
Pete,
Read this over and tell me if you agree or disagree and why.
Thank you, Coptic. No, that’s wrong. There are lots of statements from your church fathers which are not considered doctrine. Most of that article is based on noncanonical sources. Eighteenth’s century newspapers and assorted discourses which never even were recognized by the First Presidency, let alone passing the other two hurdles (quorum of the 12 and Common Consent) to becoming official doctrine.Pete,
I have learned lots from what you post.
catholic.com/thisrock/1999/9909fea4.asp
Thank you
You have quoted a lot of things which Mormons wouldn’t call doctrinal. For example, McConkie’s “Mormon Doctrine” book was never considered a valid source for true doctrine:Pete,
I have learned lots from what you post.
catholic.com/thisrock/1999/9909fea4.asp
Thank you
I first heard about it from an ex-mormon as they provided a link to a video of a guy teaching a class on deception. Since then I’ve noticed it on these forums a number of times.
