LDS and ancient record...

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Lefty0908 said:
The only “examples” of which I’m aware were some that circulated years ago. They were supposedly characters that Joseph Smith copied from the plates and gave to Martin Harris. But as it turned out, they were Mark Hofmann forgeries (one of the brigher episodes in our history 😊).

Oh, yeah, and in keeping with my lousy proof reading, my previous post attributing View of the Hebrews to Charles Tate is a mistake. Tate was the editor of the 2nd edition of VofH published in 1825, not the author, who of course was Ethan Smith.
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And that’s what I said, there are no examples of “reformed Egyptian”.
 
Lefty0908 said:
Just as there aren’t any original manuscripts of any of the books of the Bible. No examples. Not one.
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There are examples of ancient written Hebrew, Greek and Aramaic. Nothing in Smith’s “reformed Egyptian”, anywhere. Not one.
 
So this is a contrived calligraphy posing as Egyptian…I have studied a little of Egyptian calligraphy and it doesn’t look anything like it.

Again…please look at the comments regarding this manuscript…there is nothing out there proving this…
 
ParkerD said:
The writers in the Book of Mormon refer to “Hebrew” as their sacred language of communication, and the Book of Mormon is a translation of their sacred history. They used a form of Egyptian hieroglyphics that they developed using their knowledge of commerce and interchange within those cultures of the time of 600 BC, to have a writing form that took up less space than if they had written in Hebrew.
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That makes no sense whatsoever. I have never heard of anyone choosing to write in another language to save space. Even the Dead Sea Scrolls are still written in Hebrew no matter how much space they take up.
So their spoken religious heritage language was evidently Hebrew, and they chose to create a hieroglyphic writing using Egyptian as the “example” of how they would do that within their own culture and religious history.
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now that really sounds just plain silly
There would be no perfect match with Egyptian hieroglyphics, because they only used Egyptian hieroglyphics as a take-off point, but still had their Hebraic background for their verbal language.
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ok, so they thought hieroglyphics were cool but didn’t want to use Egyptian hieroglyphics so they made up their own? even though they already had a written language? One that is probably easier to understand? Considering we couldn’t decipher Egyptian hieroglyphics without the rosetta stone?

So Joseph Smith translated from ‘Reformed Egyptian hieroglypics’ what was originally Hebrew but not written as Hebrew into Elizabethan English?🤷
 
vsedriver said:
That makes no sense whatsoever. I have never heard of anyone choosing to write in another language to save space. Even the Dead Sea Scrolls are still written in Hebrew no matter how much space they take up.

now that really sounds just plain silly

ok, so they thought hieroglyphics were cool but didn’t want to use Egyptian hieroglyphics so they made up their own? even though they already had a written language? One that is probably easier to understand? Considering we couldn’t decipher Egyptian hieroglyphics without the rosetta stone?

So Joseph Smith translated from ‘Reformed Egyptian hieroglypics’ what was originally Hebrew but not written as Hebrew into Elizabethan English?🤷
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:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:
 
vsedriver said:
That makes no sense whatsoever. I have never heard of anyone choosing to write in another language to save space. Even the Dead Sea Scrolls are still written in Hebrew no matter how much space they take up.
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You might read about ancient Egyptian hieroglyphics and a technique called by Egyptologists “demotic” script that was developed by the Egyptians in about 700 BC as a simpler, faster form of writing.
 
ParkerD said:
You might read about ancient Egyptian hieroglyphics and a technique called by Egyptologists “demotic” script that was developed by the Egyptians in about 700 BC as a simpler, faster form of writing.
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Got it.

And after I read what scholars have to say about the myriad of tangible, verified examples of both Egyptian hieroglyphics and Demotic scripts that have been unearthed by archeologists working in the Middle East, where should I go to read what scholars have to say about the myriad of tangible, verified examples of “Reformed Egyptian” that have been unearthed by archeologists in North America?
 
Crdl2Grv said:
Got it.

And after I read what scholars have to say about the myriad of tangible, verified examples of both Egyptian hieroglyphics and Demotic scripts that have been unearthed by archeologists working in the Middle East, where should I go to read what scholars have to say about the myriad of tangible, verified examples of “Reformed Egyptian” that have been unearthed by archeologists in North America?
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:hmmm::hmmm: You may need spiritual eyes for that…and a burning in the bosom sensation…or a set of special gold plates…😃
 
ParkerD said:
vsedriver,
The writers in the Book of Mormon refer to “Hebrew” as their sacred language of communication, and the Book of Mormon is a translation of their sacred history. They used a form of Egyptian hieroglyphics that they developed using their knowledge of commerce and interchange within those cultures of the time of 600 BC, to have a writing form that took up less space than if they had written in Hebrew.
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Crdl2Grv said:
Got it.

And after I read what scholars have to say about the myriad of tangible, verified examples of both Egyptian hieroglyphics and Demotic scripts that have been unearthed by archeologists working in the Middle East, where should I go to read what scholars have to say about the myriad of tangible, verified examples of “Reformed Egyptian” that have been unearthed by archeologists in North America?
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Myriad examples? There are none. Joey Smith made it up and this was proved decades ago. Even lds scientists have admitted there is NO evidence whatsoever.

👍
 
There is no reformed Egyptian. Joseph had to make that up because folks actually COULD read Hebrew and he had to pick a language on which there could be no contradiction.

Look at it this way:

Joseph, an uneducated person took gold plates in the USA in the 1800s that were written in Reformed Egyptian and translated them.

In the 1600s, some incredibly educated men in England took documents in Latin, Hebrew, and etc. and translated them.

amazingly enough, the result was, in some cases…EXACTLY THE SAME!!! In fact, it appears that no matter when you write or in what language you write, the translations always come out in The 1600s King’s English, no matter your education level or upbringing. And, in some instances, the results were so similar, that it almost looked like Joseph copied from the Old Testament. THAT is amazing.
 
What was the reason why the plates were taken back to heaven anyway…just to make things more difficult or:confused:
 
ParkerD said:
You might read about ancient Egyptian hieroglyphics and a technique called by Egyptologists “demotic” script that was developed by the Egyptians in about 700 BC as a simpler, faster form of writing.
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Oh man Parker, we’re not actually going to do the whole Egyptian thing are we? Do we really have to travel down that road?
sigh
 
I wonder why the writers of the dead sea scrolls didn’t write in reformed Egyptian? Think of all the space they could have saved! :rolleyes:
 
theidler said:
What was the reason why the plates were taken back to heaven anyway…just to make things more difficult or:confused:
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I know you’re being ironic here, but the answer is actually “yes.” Mormons believe that Heavenly Father removed the plates so people would have the “opportunity” to increase their faith by believing w/o evidence.

The better question, though, is why Heavenly Father appears to have removed not just the golden plates of the original BOM, but every other example of “Reformed Egyptian” writing. No civic proclamations, no signs on buildings (no buildings, for that matter), no maps, no stories, no textbooks where “Reformed Egyptian” was taught, no grocery lists, no “to do” lists from Nephite wives to Nephite husbands, no nothing…

I can understand taking back the golden plates (actually I can’t, but I will grant that highly debatable premise for the sake of argument). But why take back everything? There’s plenty of archeological evidence for pre-Christian Hebrew civilization, and it’s existence doesn’t appear to have decreased the faith of Jews and Christians.
 
I am waiting for the conversion of the Mormons…one of the first steps to let go of all these ‘documents’…
 
on John Ankerberg show this weekend:

SANDRA TANNER & Dr. Wilder & her husband Michael Wilder ex-LDS high Priest

VERY INFOMATIVE

on DAYSTAR, ETC.
 
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