LDS and ancient record...

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You have good experience with this Bible…I have my parents’ here at home…but have gotten so used to the New American Standard…

My eyes are not so good right now…have to reread well…changing one word…changes everything!
I cheat. 😊

I have the DR website bookmarked so I can pull it up, online. It has a great search feature that helps immensely when all I have to go on is a brief quote. You can always make the type bigger on any webpage by hitting (ctrl+) if it’s too small for you to see. 😃
 
I cheat. 😊

I have the DR website bookmarked so I can pull it up, online. It has a great search feature that helps immensely when all I have to go on is a brief quote. You can always make the type bigger on any webpage by hitting (ctrl+) if it’s too small for you to see. 😃
That’s even better than my cheat. 😃 Thanks for the link, I just bookmarked it.

I’ll quote anywhere here so that I can use that little Bible icon and pop in the verse I need to look up. If fact it was trying to find a verse that a Mormon used, that first alerted me to the fact that even when they quote the KJV they have actually added verses. (Wish I remembered the conversation and thread)

Now that’s what I call cheating. :rotfl:
 
That’s even better than my cheat. 😃 Thanks for the link, I just bookmarked it.

I’ll quote anywhere here so that I can use that little Bible icon and pop in the verse I need to look up. If fact it was trying to find a verse that a Mormon used, that first alerted me to the fact that even when they quote the KJV they have actually added verses. (Wish I remembered the conversation and thread)

Now that’s what I call cheating. :rotfl:
Glad to help! 😃

Mormons are great for taking bits and pieces, and short phrases out of context, then putting them together in a sentence to make it seem like they’re all related and come from the same place in the Bible. JWs (as well as many Protestants, etc.) tend to do the same kinds of things when they want to make a point, so I’ve learned to always look stuff up to get the bigger picture. My bad.

When I want to use any passage to make a point, I usually post the whole thing so it can be seen in its context. Context always helps us understand what is really being discussed in those short passages and phrases, so there’s less chance that they’ll be misunderstood. If there’s one thing that I learned very well in my HS English classes (even though I never graduated), was the importance of understanding context. 😉
 
This is the entire passage you quoted (from the Douay-Rheims version), which is slightly different in it’s wording and in its layout. It doesn’t read the way you claim it to read, as far as the “restitution of all things” is concerned, especially your claim for line #19 that isn’t anything like what you said.
[19] Be penitent, therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out. [20] That when the times of refreshment shall come from the presence of the Lord, and he shall send him who hath been preached unto you, Jesus Christ,
[21] Whom heaven indeed must receive, until the times of the restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of his holy prophets, from the beginning of the world.
The “times of the restitution of all things” is a reference to the general resurrection at the end of the world, when Jesus will return to pass Final Judgement on all mankind. At that point, the whole earth, that has been all but utterly destroyed in the Tribulation, will be restored by Him, as well as all of mankind that will be resurrected and Judged. Then, He will reign forever on the New (restored) Earth, where all souls will also be restored to their resurrected bodies, and into their eternal life (in Heaven or hell). That passage has nothing to do with Jesus coming back before that time to ‘restore’ His Church. His Church will still exist as it always has, ever since He first established it. There is only one time that Jesus told us He would return to the earth, and that’s at the time of the Final Judgement. Not before.
Well done, Telstar. This is a good response. I owuld like to add as well that the notion that the restitution of all things is the restoration of the Church as such is not a premise that the Mromns get for free. Rather it depends on a specific assumption that the loss of all things is yet to come when the NT books were written. If we want to make sense of restoring “all things” the first question to ask is, “When were all things lost?” The obvious answer to that is the fall of man. In Genesis we get two creation accounts that show man as the apex of God’s design of the world. Are things are there for him, and he is there for God. When man falls, he takes takes all of creation down with him. But Christ, by his resurrection retores the created order of the cosmos, which comes finally two pass when a New Heavens and a New Earth are brought forth at the end of time. This makes sense of “all things,” fits with the overall narrative of the Bible and needs no arbitrary assumptions.
 
Yes…right on…the turning away from God happened with Adam and Eve…and recalling the Mormon spin that Eve was simply seeking wisdom…Adam I might add…that is their come back…

Rather than seeing The Fall separating them from God and Christ restoring us to the Heavenly Father and making all things new…

Subsequently, no apostasy ludicrously after the death of the last apostle…right when Christ’s saving power was beginning for humanity…the fulfillment of all time.
 
To Telstar’s point of Jesus returning to judge the living and the dead: Joseph Smith’s claim to Jesus returning to him, and him alone, as a quasi second-salvation is completely outside of anything taught by Jesus or the Apostle’s; a second coming that is never prophesied

As Kathleen said, this idea is based on a premise that Jesus failed and needed a second round.
 
this is becoming a conversation between non/ex mormons.

Why aren’t the Mormons explaining why JS should be trusted when he says that those things he translated are no longer available?
 
Sally,

This happens…so I try to use this time to pray or remember them in prayer later in evening…
 
Satan told Eve that if she ate the apple, she could become a god.

Mormons teach that if you follow Joseph, you can become a god.

Coincidence?
 
The “times of the restitution of all things” is a reference to the general resurrection at the end of the world, when Jesus will return to pass Final Judgement on all mankind. At that point, the whole earth, that has been all but utterly destroyed in the Tribulation, will be restored by Him, as well as all of mankind that will be resurrected and Judged. Then, He will reign forever on the New (restored) Earth, where all souls will also be restored to their resurrected bodies, and into their eternal life (in Heaven or hell). That passage has nothing to do with Jesus coming back before that time to ‘restore’ His Church. His Church will still exist as it always has, ever since He first established it. There is only one time that Jesus told us He would return to the earth, and that’s at the time of the Final Judgement. Not before.
You non/ex Mormons are having too much fun talking to yourselves.🙂 So, I will go back to Telstar’s log which has some substance. Telstar, I appreciate your thoughtful interpretation.

In the passage in Acts, Peter said that Jesus would not return until the “times of the restitution of all things.” Your are correct that this “restitution” would occur immediatly before the final judgement and resurrection. John, one of the last living apostles, saw in a vision an angel who had the everlasting gospel to preach to every nation at that time: “for the hour of his judgement is come.”

“And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgemnt is come.” (Rev. 14:6-7)
 
You non/ex Mormons are having too much fun talking to yourselves.🙂 So, I will go back to Telstar’s log which has some substance. Telstar, I appreciate your thoughtful interpretation.
I always like to have fun, no matter who I’m talking to. 😃

That ‘interpretation’ is not just my own, as you can probably tell from the other responses posted, but thanks for the pat on the head. 😉
In the passage in Acts, Peter said that Jesus would not return until the “times of the restitution of all things.” Your are correct that this “restitution” would occur immediatly before the final judgement and resurrection. John, one of the last living apostles, saw in a vision an angel who had the everlasting gospel to preach to every nation at that time: “for the hour of his judgement is come.”
The key word in your assessment is ‘immediately’. When Jesus returns on the clouds of Heaven for all to see, the very end will already be here. The entire Tribulation will be over and done, except for the resurrection and Final Judgement. Then, will come the complete restoration of the New Heaven and the New Earth. There is no gap in ‘time’ from the point when Jesus appears, to Judgement, and*** everyone*** that is still alive, and the souls that are in Heaven and hell, will all see it when it happens, no matter where they are. ‘Time’ as a construct on this earth, will no longer exist, because at that point, the earth will become eternal, just like Heaven is now. There is no such thing as ‘time’, as we know it, in Heaven.
“And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgemnt is come.” (Rev. 14:6-7)
That particular part of the Apocalypse refers to the everlasting Gospel, and the ‘angel’ that brings it to the earth is the Catholic Church. She wrote it and has been preaching it from the very beginning, when Jesus still walked the earth. There is only one Gospel of Jesus Christ, and it has already been preached for 2000 years. It will continue to be preached by Her, unabated, until Jesus returns. It has already spread to every corner of the world, so there is a strong possibility that it may actually be getting very close to the ‘last days’, or ‘the end of time’.

Contrary to some people’s erroneous opinions, especially those that don’t understand that particular Book by John, the “end times” have been progressing, exactly as he envisioned them, ever since he first wrote it. But, it’s not necessarily in any true ‘chronological’ order, because it involves many things that overlap in ‘time’. For the most part, it is a revelation of the spiritual progression of mankind from the time of the creation, all the way through to the general resurrection and Judgement. There is some prophecy concerning the ‘real world’ involved in it, but most of it is related to Jesus, and the spiritual mission of the Catholic Church that He established and founded on Peter.

Whatever Joseph Smith or anyone else has ‘interpreted’ about it, is most likely, completely wrong.
 
TK, I urge you to reread the bible.

The devil promised Eve her eyes would be opened and she would know Good and Evil.
Knowing good and evil was an attribute of God foreign to Adam and Eve.
The devil did not promise to make them diving beings
Satan told Eve that if she ate the apple, she could become a god.

Mormons teach that if you follow Joseph, you can become a god.

Coincidence?
 
Tony,

I urge you to reread the Bible:

[4] And the serpent said to the woman: No, you shall not die the death. [5] For God doth know that in what day soever you shall eat thereof, your eyes shall be opened: and you shall be as Gods, knowing good and evil.

drbo.org/chapter/01003.htm
 
Tony,

I urge you to reread the Bible:

[4] And the serpent said to the woman: No, you shall not die the death. [5] For God doth know that in what day soever you shall eat thereof, your eyes shall be opened: and you shall be as Gods, knowing good and evil.

drbo.org/chapter/01003.htm
ROFL, since he only promised them the knowledge of Good and Evil, you are right only if that knowledge is sufficient and essential to making man God?!?!

Look at the sentence structure closely
If you are say maybe German and I said “I promise you, you shall be as an American, knowing english and slang”

I’ve just promised to give you language knowledge, not a passport.

I’ll look for official Catholic bible commentary, to help you clear this up
 
The devil does not change his “MO” (motis operandi). 2 basic LIES from the Garden keep coming up in human history, & KEEP HAVING EFFECT SO WHY CHANGE WHAT WORKS:shrug:
  1. Thou shalt not surely die 2. Thou shalt be as gods
The New Agers have run with the latter as well as the LDS. You will see it in pantheism - I’m god, the dog is god, the tree is god… Or if you have followed Matthew Fox = “panentheism” (spelling). God says clearly in OT I AM HE and I know of NO OTHER (God); Seems to boil down BoM vs. Bible for LDS; truth in turmoil for them evidently. To make them work together - contrast Monotheism with Henotheism or Pantheism does NOT work.

1 God vs. Many Gods
No Marriage in Heaven vs. Marriage in Heaven
1 Wife vs. Plural Wives
Jesus born in Bethlehem vs. “Jerusalem” Alma 7:10
At Jesus’ death darkness covered the earth 3 hours vs. 3 days 3 Nephi 8:19, 23
A man not of a descendant of Aaron cannot hold Aaronic Priesthood
vs can hold priesthood Numbers 16:40, Hebrews 7:13, 14
When man created God said "Let us make man in OUR image vs. MY image Gen 1:26 (Does not Mormonism teach that God had a physical body at that time) Ex 33:11 doesn’t hold up against PS 91:4 where under God’s wings you will find refuge

We have DOUBLETHINK going on here.

PS Texan Knight: MO is a legal term - did I spell it right?? 😊
 
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