LDS and ancient record...

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DOUBLETHINK George Orwell coined the word - see “1984”; doublethink is a very dangerous road

LDS use EUPHEMISMS such a “eternal progression” blasphemous to Catholics & orthodox Christians.
 
An attribute of God is omniscience. Knowing good and evil is an aspect of this attribute. The power of God is found in knowledge…this is Gnosticism. Of course it’s a lie, obviously, humans left to their own devices without following God’s will, will declare evil to be good and good to be evil. Choosing between good and evil was not what Satan was tempting Eve with. It was God’s attribute of determining what is good and evil. Humans are not very good at this, at all. Abortion is named good, God is named evil…etc.Self-determination was the temptation.

Ironic, that a Mormon would tell us knowledge isn’t an attribute of God when their scriptures tell them growing in knowledge is an aspect of their progressing to gods themselves.

Tony888, It is a rather diminished view of what was happening in the garden, to think that God was forbidding eating a fruit that taught a new language and that Satan’s temptation was like inviting someone to a German language class.

I don’t know how you come up with this stuff. It is neither Catholic or Mormon.
 
The catholic bible commentary seems to imply Eve was expecting the gift of wisdom, or knowledge of all things
Haydock’s Catholic Bible Commentary, 1859 edition
Ver. 5. God. The old serpent’s aim is, to make us think God envies our happiness. (Haydock) — Or he would have Eve to suppose, she had not rightly understood her maker, who would surely never deprive her of a fruit which would give her such an increase of knowledge, as to make her conclude she was before comparatively blind. (Menochius) — As gods, Hebrew Elohim, which means also princes, angels, or judges. It appears, that our first parents had flattered themselves with the hopes of attaining a divine knowledge of all things. (Calmet)
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Rebecca, please reread my posts
Clearly the knowledge of good and evil is a component of God
However, the verse does not show the devil offered to make them the equal of God
 
Tony888 said:
The catholic bible commentary seems to imply Eve was expecting the gift of wisdom, or knowledge of all things
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Yes, which is an attribute of God. It is not something you possess or ever will possess. It is a lie, being perpetrated by the father of lies.
 
Tony888 said:
The catholic bible commentary seems to imply Eve was expecting the gift of wisdom, or knowledge of all things

Rebecca, please reread my posts
Clearly the knowledge of good and evil is a component of God
However, the verse does not show the devil offered to make them the equal of God
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Tony888, you are coming across to me like the old westerns, where a Hollywood Indian would say, “white man speaks with forked tongue”…which isn’t a comment on your race or ethnicity, but in what you are saying.
 
Tony888 said:
I’ll look for official Catholic bible commentary, to help you clear this up
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I’m glad you’re laughing, Tony. I can assure you that everyone who is reading this thread is doing the same… at the notion of a member of the LDS faith “clearing up” Genesis for a Catholic.
 
RebeccaJ said:
Tony888, you are coming across to me like the old westerns, where a Hollywood Indian would say, “white man speaks with forked tongue”…which isn’t a comment on your race or ethnicity, but in what you are saying.
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Rebecca,
STOP creating Catholic doctrine.
The sentence structure does not say what you want it to say
Your own bible study material does not say what you want it to say.
 
Tony888 said:
Rebecca,
STOP creating Catholic doctrine.
The sentence structure does not say what you want it to say
Your own bible study material does not say what you want it to say.
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Oh my freaking heck. STOP overlaying your own ideas over Catholic doctrine. What you quoted teaches exactly what I said. I swear when you became Mormon someone must have performed a lobotomy.

I pray that God will lead you out of the fog you have wandered into.
 
God is the only judge of what (who) is good, and who (what) is evil. When we divorce ourselves from God’s Spirit, we pretend that we are gods, and seek to take God’s role as judges. God knows all things, we do not. Only God knows, and we must always seek God.

That is why doctrine must be simple and coherent and logical. We only know in part, and must tolerate mystery.
 
Tony888 said:
The catholic bible commentary seems to imply Eve was expecting the gift of wisdom, or knowledge of all things
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Tony, I know what a stickler you are for “official” sources. So it’s weird that you went somewhere other than the catechism to try to clear things up for me. Maybe someone hijacked your account?

In any event, here’s what the CCC says:

"396 God created man in his image and established him in his friendship. A spiritual creature, man can live this friendship only in free submission to God. The prohibition against eating “of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil” spells this out: "for in the day that you eat of it, you shall die.“276 The "tree of the knowledge of good and evil"277 symbolically evokes the insurmountable limits that man, being a creature, must freely recognize and respect with trust. Man is dependent on his Creator, and subject to the laws of creation and to the moral norms that govern the use of freedom.”

vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p1s2c1p7.htm

“The insurmountable limits that man, being a creature, must freely recognize.” Or, to put it another way, Satan promised Eve that she could transcend those “insurmountable limits” and become divine. That can’t happen. Ever. Even if Joseph Smith looked in his hat and told you otherwise.

I look forward to your “ROTFL, Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith! Let me clear up this whole Genesis thing for all you Cardinals…” post.
 
Tony888 said:
ROFL, since he only promised them the knowledge of Good and Evil, you are right only if that knowledge is sufficient and essential to making man God?!?!
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If you’re correct, then why did he bother to say, “and you shall be as Gods”? What part does that statement play within the structure of the sentence as a whole?
Tony888 said:
Look at the sentence structure closely
If you are say maybe German and I said “I promise you, you shall be as an American, knowing english and slang”
I’ve just promised to give you language knowledge, not a passport.
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Tony, I’m guessing that you often failed English grammar in school, since your example doesn’t even say what you think it says. Your ‘promise’ was actually, “you shall be as an American”. Did they ever teach you anything about sentence structure in school? Did they ever teach you about the parts of speech, subjects, predicates, direct objects, or the subordinate clauses of sentence structure? Did they ever make you diagram complex sentences? Can you tell me what the subject of this whole sentence is?
[5] For God doth know that in what day soever you shall eat thereof, your eyes shall be opened: and you shall be as Gods, knowing good and evil. Is there more than one idea contained in the sentence? How do you know, one way or the other? I realize that this sentence is a very complex one, but since I believe you must have at least graduated high school, you should have learned how to dissect even more complicated ones than that, if I did. Can you tell me what the verb(s) is(are)? Can you tell me about the clauses? What do they refer to, either the subject or the predicate?
Tony888 said:
I’ll look for official Catholic bible commentary, to help you clear this up
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Contrary to your opinion, I think we’re all perfectly capable of finding official Catholic Church teachings. But, thanks. 😉
 
I have low tolerance for people who deliberately misconstrue Catholic teachings and then play it back to us…it is a new and devious, and – incendiary act in relation to the sensitivities of my faith – by the Mormon sophists…It is causing me to have little respect for Mormon evangelizers.

Mitt Romney is perceived as a very good man, a competent man. But what people have issues with is the dishonesty of the Mormon church itself…again,…I had to go back and retype Mormon from Moron…I am not being insulting…it happens all the time when I am typing out the word, Mormon…

God walked with Adam and Eve…He pointed out among the fruit that they could eat, the Tree of Life,

Instead, listening to Satan, they chose themselves essentially over God, and refused to partake of the Tree of Life, opting for death, for surely they would die.

Tony is behaving just like Adam and Eve did, ignoring that if they eat of the Forbidden Fruit, they will surely die.

Tony – those Mormons are using you and you don’t even realize it.

Mormons refuse to call themselves Christians, followers of Christ…what does that tell you, Tony?
 
Telstar,
I’m saddened you must resort to personal insults.

I’ve given you my interpretation of the verse, and I’ve referenced offical Catholic bible commentary.

It is clear to me “knoweldge of good and evil” is an attribute of God
It is not clear from the verse that this was equivalent to being God

Crld2grv
Thanks for sharing the CCC verses, they add context.
But they do not show Eve expected to become God.

ps, this isn’t a question of LDS vs Catholic interpretation. I’m referencing what it explicitely says, not what the ‘LDS teach’ I’ll accept any ‘qualified commentary’ that supports your explicit claim that Eve thought she would become God’s equivalent
 
Tony888 said:
Telstar,
I’m saddened you must resort to personal insults.

I’ve given you my interpretation of the verse, and I’ve referenced offical Catholic bible commentary.

It is clear to me “knoweldge of good and evil” is an attribute of God
It is not clear from the verse that this was equivalent to being God
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How did I insult you? Did your school teachers insult you by correcting your errors in English class? I never graduated high school, but I can tell you what the basic structure of that sentence is, and what it means. So, I’m guessing that you can’t answer any of my questions because you really have no idea what sentence structure is all about. You just regurgitate what LDS tell you to believe about that sentence, as if they know what it means (which they don’t). I can tell you this, Joseph Smith was not very good at understanding English grammar either, if that makes you feel any better about yourself. 😉
 
KathleenGee said:
**** ****** is perceived as a very good man, a competent man.
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Kathleen, those terms being used in the same sentence describing that person (I shudder at the thought of even copying that name) are a matter of opinion. Just ask anyone from Massachusetts. I will only say that if he truly represents a typical Mormon “fruit”, then the whole barrel is in big trouble. There’s a big difference between our faulty perceptions and fact. I’ve been kicking myself over making that mistake for years. :sad_yes:
 
Telstar,

Will take your word for that…as I live on the West Coast…and we don’t know much…I have a friend from Chicago…and she shared with me alot about Chicago politics…and the need of being in a union or you get nothing…and who people really are.
 
Tony,

It takes work to read a document in its objective context.

There is a way to accurately study it. First, you read the whole piece. You try to find out what the objective and aims are. Then you go back and you take each paragraph apart. You look at the leading sentence of the paragraph which is supporting the main topic of the document. The following statements are then backing up the leading sentence to further support, as well as identify same, similar, or opposing thought…meaning, it is also describing in many scholarly documents…what the objectives are not.

Each paragraph leads to the next.

And if you say Eve was seeking wisdom, there is no such word in Sacred Scriptures. That was made up by Mormon sophists to justify their invalidation of Christianity, and Judaism for that matter, and creating a new religion where passion rules, and so the rules change all the time…because the rules are set up to serve man and make himself a god…

Man makes himself god simply by choosing himself and his way of looking at things over God’s.

Some people have also interpreted 666 into stages of faith in Christianity…The sixth hundred year of Christianity marked Islam, the next 600 years then led us into the Enlightenment, I think therefore I am, and then the last stage…as shown in the beginnings of Marxism, Nietsche, Hegel…the man made trinity…there is no god but man himself…who decides who lives or dies.

Essentially this is the worst side of the coin of those who seek their own deification…is that they then assume the position of God…and the contradiction of it is that humanity just doesn’t win.

You then see the eventual pogroms where millions are killed…and forgotten…for the state, ruled by a few men who consider themselves better than God, religion an opiate of the people.

So going back to Genesis…you do yourself a big favor to read the phrases as they are, and to listen to Scripture – to not change a single word of it…that is anathema…and then go to the next phrase…there is nothing in there stating Eve wanted wisdom…that is conjecturing.
 
Is this partly the reason the LDS Church seems to be so good at geneologies?
…Due to the theological import of ancient records as understood in the plates?

Also, I remember reading where the man who abducted Elizabeth Smart from her house prior to forced breeding…
…Had said somthing to the effect of ; ‘what I seal in record on earth is sealed in heaven’.
…He said something like this pior to sexually assulting the little girl.
…While his wife watched “the procedure”.

I’ve wondered about what impact “ancient records” ( that can’t be found ) would have on religious believers…
…It’s like a mechanism to maintain control in the ranks.
 
Bring forth documented church history going back to our origins and they reject it.
 
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