LDS apostle belittles non-LDS in world wide conference broadcast

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Jeffery Holland member of the quorum of the quorum of the twelve apostles in the LDS church had this to say about non-LDS people who are seeking God.

Jeffery R. Holland said:
“Sadly enough, my young friends, it is a characteristic of our age that if people want any gods at all, they want them to be gods who do not demand much, comfortable gods and smooth gods who not only don’t rock the boat but don’t even row it, gods who pat us on the head, make us giggle, then tell us to run along and pick marigolds. Talk about man creating God in his own image! Sometimes — and this seems the greatest irony of all — these folks invoke the name of Jesus as one who was this kind of ‘comfortable’ God. Really?”
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Tell me again how LDS never mock or belittle other believers, because I’m finding it impossible to believe it when things like this are said by their highest leaders, to all LDS members, in a meeting that every member is expected to watch, and will be republished by the church in it’s magazines and published in perpetuity on their website.
 
Why do you care what non-Christians say about Christians? Why would you expect it to be accurate?
 
What the LDS apostle said is true. There are people who would rather seek God on their own terms rather than conforming themselves to God’s commandments, and that is a wrong-headed attitude. His comment is not even directed at all non-LDS. It could be equally applied to certain Mormons.

Now let me ask the question. How many times have you seen people on this board belittle the LDS?
 
I would not worry about he said unless it was LDS doctrine…because THEN it would be subject to change at any times…
 
po18guy said:
Well, he might have a point…
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When I read the original post, the first thing I thought was “Buddy Jesus”. I didn’t see him slamming other Christians, but as QNDNNDQDCE said, pointing out how people want God (including Jesus) to be, a “no worries, mate, s’all good” sort of pal.

Off topic: By the way, QNDNNDQDCE, I can’t help but notice your username. I tried to pronounce it but ended up having to use a box of wet-wipes to clean off my screen.

Hmmmm…10 letters, only one vowel…Is it Welsh? :hmmm:

😃
 
“Sadly enough, my young friends, it is a characteristic of our age that if people want any gods at all, they want them to be gods who do not demand much, comfortable gods and smooth gods who not only don’t rock the boat but don’t even row it, gods who pat us on the head, make us giggle, then tell us to run along and pick marigolds. Talk about man creating God in his own image! Sometimes — and this seems the greatest irony of all — these folks invoke the name of Jesus as one who was this kind of ‘comfortable’ God. Really?”
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This might be one of the best quotes I’ve heard from a Mormon source.

With respect to any Mormons who may come across this post, I generally find Mormons to resort to simplistic quotations about Christianity that come across to me as very watered down. But this quotes stands in contrast to that as one that seems to challenge those who hear it.
 
zaffiroborant said:
Jeffery Holland member of the quorum of the quorum of the twelve apostles in the LDS church had this to say about non-LDS people who are seeking God.

Originally Posted by Jeffery R. Holland

“Sadly enough, my young friends, it is a characteristic of our age that if people want any gods at all, they want them to be gods who do not demand much, comfortable gods and smooth gods who not only don’t rock the boat but don’t even row it, gods who pat us on the head, make us giggle, then tell us to run along and pick marigolds. Talk about man creating God in his own image! Sometimes — and this seems the greatest irony of all — these folks invoke the name of Jesus as one who was this kind of ‘comfortable’ God. Really?”

Tell me again how LDS never mock or belittle other believers, because I’m finding it impossible to believe it when things like this are said by their highest leaders, to all LDS members, in a meeting that every member is expected to watch, and will be republished by the church in it’s magazines and published in perpetuity on their website.
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I found so much irony in Mr. Holland’s statement that it is laughable. If anyone created God in the image of man, it is Joseph Smith.

Many LDS believe that they are the only ones with a demanding god and church. Many have a false belief that protestant Christians all believe in “once saved, always saved”, so it’s easy peasy for them so long as they say that they believe in Jesus Christ. Many also believe that it is easy to be Catholic because if a Catholic sins, he just goes to Confession and it’s all good. These are false understandings of Christianity that I often heard from LDS when I was LDS. I will admit that I also held similar beliefs about Christians when I was LDS.

So when Mr. Holland made this statement, he was speaking to a group of people where many believe that they are the ones who have a truly demanding god and that the God worshipped by Christians is soft and easy and doesn’t ask us to actually stop sinning.

Do many people create a god in their own image? Absolutely. I just find it very ironic that this statement is coming from an apostle of a church that worships a god created in the image of Joseph Smith.

I think I am going to plant some marigolds in my garden this weekend.
 
While Iepuras makes some strong points, I would say that, applied specifically, Mr. Holland’s words can be valid arguments against certain groups. So as not to bring about scandal or malice by discussing anyone currently, I’ll pick on Thomas Jefferson, who wanted to strip away all of the miraculous aspects of Christianity and turn it into a better philosophy to follow than the others.
 
zaffiroborant said:
Tell me again how LDS never mock or belittle other believers
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I didn’t find it mocking or belittling. I found it social commentary, and I note that there seem to be quite a few folks on this thread who agree with that commentary.
 
John_Lazarus said:
When I read the original post, the first thing I thought was “Buddy Jesus”. I didn’t see him slamming other Christians, but as QNDNNDQDCE said, pointing out how people want God (including Jesus) to be, a “no worries, mate, s’all good” sort of pal.

Off topic: By the way, QNDNNDQDCE, I can’t help but notice your username. I tried to pronounce it but ended up having to use a box of wet-wipes to clean off my screen.

Hmmmm…10 letters, only one vowel…Is it Welsh? :hmmm:

😃
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LOL. Don’t try to pronounce it. It is an initialism of a Bible verse (1 John 4:8 in the Vulgate).
 
NeuroTypical said:
I didn’t find it mocking or belittling. I found it social commentary, and I note that there seem to be quite a few folks on this thread who agree with that commentary.
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You have a point, as much of bible Christianity has become a caricature of the original faith.
 
NeuroTypical said:
I didn’t find it mocking or belittling. I found it social commentary, and I note that there seem to be quite a few folks on this thread who agree with that commentary.
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I might agree with you if he qualified the statement at all, but he didn’t, his statement reads, people either don’t want gods or they want undemanding gods. That is painting with the widest brush possible.
 
Mumbles140 said:
While Iepuras makes some strong points, I would say that, applied specifically, Mr. Holland’s words can be valid arguments against certain groups. So as not to bring about scandal or malice by discussing anyone currently, I’ll pick on Thomas Jefferson, who wanted to strip away all of the miraculous aspects of Christianity and turn it into a better philosophy to follow than the others.
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The trouble with Holland’s words is they are not specific, they paint everyone outside the LDS church as either not wanting God or wanting God to make no demands. He applies his caricature of Christianity to everyone.
 
zaffiroborant said:
The trouble with Holland’s words is they are not specific, they paint everyone outside the LDS church as either not wanting God or wanting God to make no demands. He applies his caricature of Christianity to everyone.
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I’d be all for giving him the benefit of the doubt, if it weren’t for his history of using half truths and rhetoric to paint Christianity in a bad light. Remember his conference talk on the Trinity? That causes me to see this latest talk as a continuation of his attack on Christianity.
 
zaffiroborant said:
I might agree with you if he qualified the statement at all, but he didn’t, his statement reads, people either don’t want gods or they want undemanding gods. That is painting with the widest brush possible.
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zaffiroborant, I honestly don’t get you. You even quoted the qualification:

“it is a characteristic of our age that if people want any gods at all, they want them to be gods who do not demand much”

So no, he’s not “painting with the widest brush possible”, nor is he trying to “paint everyone outside the LDS church”, nor does “he [apply] his caricature of Christianity to everyone”.

He’s just talking about a characteristic of our age. And I agree with him. And apparently half the Catholic posters on this thread agree with him too.

I see you and Rebecca trying to turn this into some club to use against Mormons, but from where I’m standing, you have to assume some pretty uncharitable things in order to do so.

Last word is yours.
 
zaffiroborant said:
The trouble with Holland’s words is they are not specific, they paint everyone outside the LDS church as either not wanting God or wanting God to make no demands. He applies his caricature of Christianity to everyone.
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I don’t think they were meant to be specific, not to say the entire world is this way other than the LDS, but because it is a growing trend in the world, and it is not uncommon in our time to find that attitude among people. Sadly, it describes most of the people I know, many of whom were born and raised Catholic but have since fallen away from the faith.
 
NeuroTypical said:
zaffiroborant, I honestly don’t get you. You even quoted the qualification:

“it is a characteristic of our age that if people want any gods at all, they want them to be gods who do not demand much”

So no, he’s not “painting with the widest brush possible”, nor is he trying to “paint everyone outside the LDS church”, nor does “he [apply] his caricature of Christianity to everyone”.

He’s just talking about a characteristic of our age. And I agree with him. And apparently half the Catholic posters on this thread agree with him too.

I see you and Rebecca trying to turn this into some club to use against Mormons, but from where I’m standing, you have to assume some pretty uncharitable things in order to do so.

Last word is yours.
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Nah, just familiar with Elder Holland and his stated, public teachings, about the God who Christians worship. Not assumptions but facts.

I hold no belief that he is even talking about the God who Christians worship, but is referencing his Mormon God. That is not a.club, it is also a fact.
 
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