LDS Baptizes and Seals St. Damien to a "wife"

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Amontoya,
Again, these are perceptive questions and I appreciate the depth of your thinking.

1–Jesus was completely united with the plan of Heavenly Father that brings those who become “like Jesus” through having progressed through receiving the guidance of the Holy Spirit, into the presence of Heavenly Father in a state of cleanliness and purity and sanctification. The “glorious” joy of being with Them is because being with Them after our resurrection means we have a close unified relationship with Them and can feel Their joyfulness as They say, “Well done, good and faithful servant. Enter into the joy of thy Lord.” It is a fullness of joy that includes participating in the kind of life They enjoy, a life completely full of love. It is to love as Christ and the Father love.

Being in the presence of Jesus and feeling His love will bring great joy, but not a fullness of joy because in that condition those who receive it will not have the full capacity to love that Christ and the Father have. Their capacity to love will have become limited by their choices in life. A fullness of joy cannot be felt without the capacity to love to the same extent that They do.

Being in the presence of the Holy Spirit will bring peace, comfort, and relief from torment but it will be so far different than the other two kingdoms because there will only be a spiritual presence of God and not the physical presence of Jesus. Those who receive this will miss out on the joy of being in the presence of the kind of love emanating from the physical presence of Christ. It is less tangible and less vibrant. It also means they have less knowledge and less capacity to love, so this brings less joy to their souls.

2–Jesus of course doesn’t want anyone to suffer the pains of Hell at any point, even for a minute and certainly not for a thousand years. The Telestial kingdom is so far different than the “Heaven” that is available to sincere followers of Christ that it would be completely disappointing to anyone who has sought God’s presence by how they lived their life, to arrive eventually in the Telestial kingdom. So going from Hell to that kind of glory does not equate to going to Heaven at all.

As I had written before and as Zerinus wrote, Jesus has within His desires for each of us that each of us will qualify to live with Him and the Father in Their presence. Living by a fullness of truth means that Christ can warn and remind repeatedly, but does not force behavior in any way. The Heaven He wants us to achieve through making covenants and being guided by the Holy Spirit is only one Heaven, and that is the highest Heaven.

The lower “heavens” are for those who are otherwise “captives” who need His keys of death and hell and receive the “opening of the prison to them that are bound.” (Isaiah 61:1) The reason they are bound is that they did not avail themselves of the full power of His deliverance during their mortal lives.
ParkerD
“89 And thus we saw, in the heavenly vision, the glory of the telestial, which surpasses all understanding,” Doctrine and Covenants 76.

How could going from hell, which is a place of fire and torment, to the presence of the Holy Spirit in a place that surpasses all understanding in glory, “not equate to going to Heaven at all?”

Doctrine and Convenants Section 76 also says this about the telestial kingdom:
“103 These are they who are liars, and sorcerers, and adulterers, and whoremongers, and whosoever loves and makes a lie.”
“105 These are they who suffer the vengeance of eternal fire.”
“111 For they shall be judged according to their works, and every man shall receive according to his own works, his own dominion, in the mansions which are prepared.”

First, they don’t suffer “eternal fire” if Jesus frees them and brings them to the presence of the Holy Spirit in a level of heaven.

Second, if their “works” are lying, sorcery, and adultery, why would they receive a mansion in eternal glory? Even if that glory is less than that of the higher heavens?
 
ParkerD
1–“89 And thus we saw, in the heavenly vision, the glory of the telestial, which surpasses all understanding,” Doctrine and Covenants 76.

How could going from hell, which is a place of fire and torment, to the presence of the Holy Spirit in a place that surpasses all understanding in glory, “not equate to going to Heaven at all?”

Doctrine and Convenants Section 76 also says this about the telestial kingdom:
“103 These are they who are liars, and sorcerers, and adulterers, and whoremongers, and whosoever loves and makes a lie.”
“105 These are they who suffer the vengeance of eternal fire.”
“111 For they shall be judged according to their works, and every man shall receive according to his own works, his own dominion, in the mansions which are prepared.”

2–First, they don’t suffer “eternal fire” if Jesus frees them and brings them to the presence of the Holy Spirit in a level of heaven.

3–Second, if their “works” are lying, sorcery, and adultery, why would they receive a mansion in eternal glory? Even if that glory is less than that of the higher heavens?
Amontoya,
Great questions again. Thanks for asking for clarification, though my answers are just from my perspective because I really don’t hear the Telestial kingdom talked about at all by leaders or teachers. It just isn’t a place that would be sought after, despite being described as “surpasses all understanding.”

1–“Surpasses all understanding” would be because we don’t comprehend the kinds of activities souls will be engaged in after their resurrection, in any of the places of glory, even the lowest. I assume there will be some kind of creative activity that will be engaging and delightful in even the Telestial glory. The limitation of time will no longer be a constraint. The body in the resurrection will have greater capacity than our mortal body, and will not have any pain which will be a great burden lifted.

My view of “Heaven” is being with family and close relatives, so any condition that does not include that is not what I would personally consider “Heaven.” Besides that aspect, even though someone getting relief from Hell would certainly have an incredible contrast when they have been rescued from that torment and thus from their perspective, they will think it is a “Heaven” to them, someone who is seeking the kind of love and capacity for understanding that Christ offers through the plan of Heavenly Father, has that firmly in their mind as something that is attainable and will be disappointed with falling short of that.

2–“Eternal fire” means “searing punishment administered by God,” and will seem like an eternity to those who suffer that punishment. I think the wording is to convey both of these aspects of that suffering, so that people who gain Biblical knowledge will not allow themselves to have the self-deception that an eventual rescue from Hell justifies self-indulgent choices and carnally sinful behaviors in this life.

3–“Mansion” in that verse does not mean the kind of mansion we think of on this earth. It means simply a tangible dwelling place rather than Outer Darkness which is a condition of drifting with no dwelling place, in a feeling of emptiness, loss, anguish and complete darkness.

I agree that the word “glory” seems like an unusual word for such people to receive, but sufficeth to say that the punishment they will have suffered will have helped satisfy the demands of justice and equity, and during that punishment they will have learned sufficient lessons about love and truth in the universe to qualify to be redeemed from Hell. God’s will for His children is always encouraging and allowing us to move in an eventual “upward” direction because of His perfect love for us, but His will includes letting us learn from our own choices, however horrible and sinful those choices may have been and however severe the punishment we bring upon ourselves if we don’t choose repentance and the grace of Christ’s mercy.
 
We do it so that we can find out who our relatives are, and get their poxy work done. It’s about individual families and our dead–all those who have passed on without having had the chance to hear the complete gospel of Jesus Christ and to accept it.

…and yes, I AM aware that you don’t think we have the complete gospel of Jesus Christ. That’s beside the point. WE believe we do, and because we believe it, we act on it–else we would be hypocrites.
And what makes you think you can change the religious designation of these “relatives” on paper when these people said “No” to Mormonism in life? And especially priests and nuns. What makes you think that they didn’t know what they were doing when they said “Yes” to God and no to Mormonism.

This is nothing but a peeping stone sham again. A modern version, but a sham nonetheless. Again the followers are deluded by the leaders. And you suck it up as if you’ve never heard of the earlier scams played on you (Mormons) by the leaders.

PT Barnum must be loving this. 😃
 
We don’t. That is why we are advised to baptize everybody. If he has been a murderer it won’t do him any good. God will deal with him.

Mormons do the work for their own ancestors. The responsibility rests on the individual members. They can refuse to do the work for someone if they don’t want to. But how can they know what kind of life someone has lived who lived hundreds of years ago; and all you know about him is a name and date of birth? The answer is that you don’t. We baptize everybody. If he has been a murderer it won’t do him any good. He will be judged and found guilty, and receive his just reward.
Why wouldn’t baptize help a murderer? :eek:

If you believe that baptism does anything for anyone, dead or alive (so long as they say, Yes), why wouldn’t baptism cleanse one of all sins?

The more you explain these so-called baptisms, the more clear it becomes that you are being deluded by your leaders. Remember the peeping stone in the hat and keep your eyes open.

There are none so blind…
 
We do it so that we can find out who our relatives are, and get their poxy work done. It’s about individual families and our dead–all those who have passed on without having had the chance to hear the complete gospel of Jesus Christ and to accept it.

…and yes, I AM aware that you don’t think we have the complete gospel of Jesus Christ. That’s beside the point. WE believe we do, and because we believe it, we act on it–else we would be hypocrites.
And that’s just it. (Why are you being so thick about this?) The people you are “baptizing” by proxy didn’t believe what Mormons believe. They made that decision in life, and you have no reason to think that they didn’t make an intelligent, informed decision. Your churh is even listing priests and nuns, who have obviously made firm desicisions about their faith in God.

And, if you believe so strongly that you have the right to baptized others, though they’ve made their religious choice clear during their lifetime, why have you not changed your listed religion on this board to baptized Catholic by proxy as you’ve been asked to twice before? If this practice is legitimate, why not acknowledge and accept that you have been baptized Catholic by proxy? It wouldn’t be any more dishonest to list yourself as baptized Catholic (by proxy) here than it is to list a priest as baptized by proxy in the Mormon records.

Put up or shut up, as they say.
 
You may believe that the reason we do genealogy and Temple work is to ‘gather’ the twelve tribes. You’d be incredibly wrong, but you are certainly free to believe it.

What you may NOT do, without refutation and looking truly stupid, is to claim that this what WE believe the reason for genealogy and Temple work is.

🤷
But a great many people believe a great many inaccurate things about the CoJCoLDS. Join the club.
I can’t imagine how scary the false things people beleive are, if the truth (as you’ve presented it here) is so twisted, disrepectful and disturbing.

You aren’t doing you church any favors by exposing the truth. It’s confirming to us that your church is a sham.
 
Why wouldn’t baptize help a murderer? :eek:

If you believe that baptism does anything for anyone, dead or alive (so long as they say, Yes), why wouldn’t baptism cleanse one of all sins?

The more you explain these so-called baptisms, the more clear it becomes that you are being deluded by your leaders. Remember the peeping stone in the hat and keep your eyes open.

There are none so blind…
It is obvious that you have already lost the plot, otherwise you wouldn’t need to resort to abusive language. I don’t think I need to reply to that.
 
First, if the Holy Spirit, Jesus, and the Father are equal, why would being in the presence of one be less glorious than being in the presence of another?
That’s actually a good point, and would work very well with a modalist.

However, if you are a classic trinitarian, and thus are not to ‘confuse the persons’ then you know that while They are equal, they are also different. If not, why bother having three?

If you are an LDS style trinitarian, that is, believing that the Three are equal in purpose, intent, and that quality of ‘godhead,’ then this is even more true; different Beings, different responsibilities.
Second, yes Jesus rescues us from spiritual death if we follow Him in this life, but I don’t see where He said He would rescue us from the destruction we enter into by following the broad path. Why would He continually warn us against rejecting Him now, and being cast into hell, if we could go to heaven anyway?
What of those who never get to HEAR Him? Or if they hear the words, never actually get to LISTEN?
 
You may believe that the reason we do genealogy and Temple work is to ‘gather’ the twelve tribes. You’d be incredibly wrong, but you are certainly free to believe it.

What you may NOT do, without refutation and looking truly stupid, is to claim that this what WE believe the reason for genealogy and Temple work is.

🤷
But a great many people believe a great many inaccurate things about the CoJCoLDS. Join the club.
Make no mistake, based on Your Elder’s Article and other LDS supplied information,…I don’t just believe…I have no doubts…that this is the LDS ’ reasoning. For me to ignore that the apple fell from the apple tree…would amount to… arrogant ignorance.

What you personally do it for, I have stated clearly…I don’t know.
But I can safely assume, that you are in-tune, as an LDS believer, with your Elders, especially one of the Chosen Twelve Leaders of LDS.
 
We don’t. That is why we are advised to baptize everybody. If he has been a murderer it won’t do him any good. God will deal with him.
But wait… if they hadn’t been baptized they haven’t known about the Mormon gospel to the full extent… doesn’t 3 Nephi call all Gentiles to repent even from murder?
 
(name removed by moderator):
The following is a letter to the Mormon Church, by a Mormon asking to be removed from all records. **Notice concerns of potential proxy temple rites, after death-even though he formerly left the church. **

Perhaps you and your family could use part of this letter to request that your family members be removed from Mormon records. This is part 1 of a 4 part letter (lds-mormon.com/jorgensenexitletter.shtml). Part 2-4, Jorgensen gives his reasons for leaving the Mormon Church. Interesting read.

Official Exit Letter:
lds-mormon.com/djexitletter.shtml

Dave Jorgensen
Somewhere, Planet Earth.

Bishop X.
Somewhere, Planet Earth.

January 22, 2000

Dear Bishop X,

My name is Dave Jorgensen. I was born on [some date] in [some place]. I was raised as a Mormon since birth, and baptized into The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (heretofore “the LDS church”), in [some] Ward, [some] Stake, when I was 8 years old. My membership records are currently under your administration, in [another] Ward, [another] Stake.

At this time, I officially resign from the LDS church. I am no longer a member of the LDS church, and I require that my name be voluntarily removed from all LDS church membership records, to reflect this fact.

In this voluntary removal process, the LDS church must adhere to the following seven guidelines:
  1. The LDS church shall NOT impugn my character, slander my good name, nor disseminate any form of speculation, misinformation, or personal comments regarding me, to anyone.
  2. The LDS church shall NOT hold a church court, execute a disciplinary action, excommunicate me, or otherwise harass me, nor make any attempt thereto, since I have done nothing to warrant such an action.
  3. The LDS church shall remove my name from all membership records, cancel my baptism, revoke all ordinations to church “authority”, and remove all promise of “blessings” for obedience to such.
  4. The LDS church shall provide me with specific, written confirmation when this task is officially complete. This letter of confirmation will reflect that my resignation from the LDS church was not due to any pressure from or determination by LDS church authorities, but rather per my own request.
  5. The LDS church shall exercise due diligence in carrying out this procedure. I hereby notify you that you have 90 days, (no later than April 30, 2000) to provide written confirmation of my voluntary removal from the LDS church. Delays beyond this may result in my engaging legal counsel to pursue other options.
  6. Someday when I am deceased, the LDS church shall NOT have my body dressed in any form of LDS temple ceremony costume, nor in any type of LDS temple “garments” (ritual underclothing) at any time.
  7. Related to this, the LDS church shall NOT use my name in baptismal (or other) ordinances for the dead.
Assuming you would like to know my reasons for this voluntary resignation, I will detail them in a separate letter (enclosed). In short, however, I do not believe in the religious doctrines or moral authority of the LDS church. Also, I do not find LDS history, dogma, or culture to be acceptable moral or social models for myself and for my family. Frankly, I am happier outside the LDS church, so this is an obvious choice.

In closing, I ask that you respect this resignation as an exercise of my religious rights as a United States citizen and in accordance with the LDS church’s own 11th Article of Faith. Thank you.

Sincerely,

Dave Jorgensen

Use of the letters: *(Anyone may repost my letter, along with my e-mail address, as long as they change none of the letter’s attribution, and none of its contents.

However, those who wish to privately draw on the contents of the letter -in order to assist themselves in leaving the church, or to help others to leave the church- may make changes which facilitate them in that effort.

Any adaptations of the letter must remove my name and e-mail address. No other information (besides my name and e-mail address) may be attached to the letter.

Anyone discovered modifying the attribution or content of the letter in order to claim ownership or discredit the letter, may find themselves in court facing damages, as well as trying to explain my photocopied, signed and notarized version of the letter, which is dated Jan 22, 2000.

Anyhow, I post this letter for your benefit, and for the benefit of those with whom you share it. Enjoy! Dave Jorgensen)*

Another sample letter–less detailed. Read Instructions and Process before sending the letter.
mormonnomore.com/

Instructions:
mormonnomore.com/

The Process:
mormonnomore.com/

I think the letter by Jorgensen deals with more of the possibilities, including using a person’s name for proxy temple rites after death, even though they have officially left the church.
 
Our leaders, as well.:mad:
Not counting Priests, Nuns, Saints.

I do not call Muslims Christians albeit they believe in Jesus. It their view ] is entirely different from Christian norms.

By the testimonies of LDS faithful, They LDS ] as well, have a different view of the Christian norm…i.e Their teachings on Jesus AS Christ…is quite different They have that right - just as Muslims.

Because, I believe, the ritual of baptizing the dead was pagan performed, in Paul’s time… as a Christian - Catholic…I’m extremely offended. To have, in my belief, a pagan ritual attached to my relatives - Church Leaders…is past offensive.

As always, just my thoughts
 
Well everybody can in theory be part of this… I am German and married to an American ex-Mormon… The result is that a whole lot of people in Germany might now be in line for ordinances after they die.
On top of that my husband’s family partly immigrated from Germany and I know that these folks who are long gone have had their ordinances done for them already. Then there are also ancestors from France and Sweden and some Native Americans… and that is just one family.
Imagine the families of all members of the LDS church…
I know that my family will go ahead and do all those things for me once I am deceased and only if they actually become apostates to the LDS faith or Jesus comes back before that this could be prevented… That’s just the way it is, but I know that this will not change the fact that I have never been Mormon during my lifetime and their ordinances won’t change that either.
 
Here is an intersting news article showing that the LDS have posthumously baptized, and sealed St. Damien, who was recently canonized by Pope Benedict XVI, to a wife.

Let’s see, the name wasn’t submitted by a relative, and he was a celibate priest. Isn’t there also a rule of 1 generation before ordinances can be done? He passed away in 1989, 20 years is not 1 generation.

sltrib.com/ci_13546142
All I’ve got to say is - big deal…doesn’t mean squat. They might as well have declared that pigs have wings and can fly, this would be just about as grounded in reality.
 
Well everybody can in theory be part of this… I am German and married to an American ex-Mormon… The result is that a whole lot of people in Germany might now be in line for ordinances after they die.

On top of that my husband’s family partly immigrated from Germany and I know that these folks who are long gone have had their ordinances done for them already. Then there are also ancestors from France and Sweden and some Native Americans… and that is just one family.

Imagine the families of all members of the LDS church…

I know that my family will go ahead and do all those things for me once I am deceased and only if they actually become apostates to the LDS faith or Jesus comes back before that this could be prevented… That’s just the way it is, but I know that this will not change the fact that I have never been Mormon during my lifetime and their ordinances won’t change that either.
Janet1983:

There is something you and your husband can do to help ensure baptisms and other temple rites are not performed by proxy after your death. Any of your relatives can take these steps.

You can each write letters to Member Records Division, LDS Church. It is best to have the letters notarized, send via Priority Mail—with a Delivery Confirmation request, and send to the following address:

Member Records Division, LDS Church
50 E North Temple Rm 1372
SLC UT 84150-5310

I gave a sample letter in my Post #338.

I will post it again-next post.

Anna

Continued–next post
 
The following is a letter to the LDS Church, by a Mormon resigning from the LDS Church and asking to be removed from all records. **Notice concerns of potential proxy temple rites, after death-even though he formerly left the church. **

Perhaps you and your family could use part of this letter to request that your family members be removed from Mormon records. This is part 1 of a 4 part letter (lds-mormon.com/jorgensenexitletter.shtml). Part 2-4, Jorgensen gives his reasons for leaving the Mormon Church. Interesting read; but may not be applicable in your case.

Dave Jorgensen’s Official Exit Letter:
lds-mormon.com/djexitletter.shtml

Dave Jorgensen
Somewhere, Planet Earth.

Bishop X.
Somewhere, Planet Earth.

January 22, 2000

Dear Bishop X,

My name is Dave Jorgensen. I was born on [some date] in [some place]. I was raised as a Mormon since birth, and baptized into The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (heretofore “the LDS church”), in [some] Ward, [some] Stake, when I was 8 years old. My membership records are currently under your administration, in [another] Ward, [another] Stake.

At this time, I officially resign from the LDS church. I am no longer a member of the LDS church, and I require that my name be voluntarily removed from all LDS church membership records, to reflect this fact.

In this voluntary removal process, the LDS church must adhere to the following seven guidelines:
  1. The LDS church shall NOT impugn my character, slander my good name, nor disseminate any form of speculation, misinformation, or personal comments regarding me, to anyone.
  2. The LDS church shall NOT hold a church court, execute a disciplinary action, excommunicate me, or otherwise harass me, nor make any attempt thereto, since I have done nothing to warrant such an action.
  3. The LDS church shall remove my name from all membership records, cancel my baptism, revoke all ordinations to church “authority”, and remove all promise of “blessings” for obedience to such.
  4. The LDS church shall provide me with specific, written confirmation when this task is officially complete. This letter of confirmation will reflect that my resignation from the LDS church was not due to any pressure from or determination by LDS church authorities, but rather per my own request.
  5. The LDS church shall exercise due diligence in carrying out this procedure. I hereby notify you that you have 90 days, (no later than April 30, 2000) to provide written confirmation of my voluntary removal from the LDS church. Delays beyond this may result in my engaging legal counsel to pursue other options.
  6. Someday when I am deceased, the LDS church shall NOT have my body dressed in any form of LDS temple ceremony costume, nor in any type of LDS temple “garments” (ritual underclothing) at any time.
  7. Related to this, the LDS church shall NOT use my name in baptismal (or other) ordinances for the dead.
Assuming you would like to know my reasons for this voluntary resignation, I will detail them in a separate letter (enclosed). In short, however, I do not believe in the religious doctrines or moral authority of the LDS church. Also, I do not find LDS history, dogma, or culture to be acceptable moral or social models for myself and for my family. Frankly, I am happier outside the LDS church, so this is an obvious choice.

In closing, I ask that you respect this resignation as an exercise of my religious rights as a United States citizen and in accordance with the LDS church’s own 11th Article of Faith. Thank you.

Sincerely,

Dave Jorgensen

Use of the letters: *(Anyone may repost my letter, along with my e-mail address, as long as they change none of the letter’s attribution, and none of its contents.

However, those who wish to privately draw on the contents of the letter -in order to assist themselves in leaving the church, or to help others to leave the church- may make changes which facilitate them in that effort.

Any adaptations of the letter must remove my name and e-mail address. No other information (besides my name and e-mail address) may be attached to the letter.

Anyone discovered modifying the attribution or content of the letter in order to claim ownership or discredit the letter, may find themselves in court facing damages, as well as trying to explain my photocopied, signed and notarized version of the letter, which is dated Jan 22, 2000.

Anyhow, I post this letter for your benefit, and for the benefit of those with whom you share it. Enjoy! Dave Jorgensen)*

Another sample letter is found at another website–it is less detailed. However, the Instructions and Process found at this website are very helpful:

Sample Letter
mormonnomore.com/

Instructions:
mormonnomore.com/

The Process:
mormonnomore.com/

I think the letter by Jorgensen deals with more of the possibilities, including clearly prohibiting the LDS Church from performing temple rites, by proxy, after his death.

From what I have read in the Instructions and Process at www.mormonnomore.com; it is best to have the letters notarized, send via Priority Mail, with a Delivery Confirmation request, to the following address:

Member Records Division, LDS Church
50 E North Temple Rm 1372
SLC UT 84150-5310

Hope this is helpful,
Anna
 
A Mormon bishop and his wife were my neighbors, before my divorce. I had known them for years. I admired the strength of their family. The bishop seemed like the father I never had. So, after my divorce, they invited me to their church. For weeks, I took lessons at the bishop’s home- with the Mormon Bishop and two Mormon missionaries.

I was at a very vulnerable point in my life. I wanted to belong someplace. I was a single mom, with no family in my city.

So, I went to the Mormon church and finished all the lessons. There were things that concerned me about the church services. I rarely heard the name of Christ spoken. Almost without exception, testimonies began with a statement of belief that Joseph Smith was a prophet of God. I was told that there are three heavens. I was also told that God, in the flesh, impregnated Mary.

I did eventually decide to join the church. The day before my baptism, a family member called me and told me about the Mormon belief that God has a wife and lives on another star (Kolob,) and men can become gods. I was so shocked; because none of this was discussed in the lessons-except a passing mention of exaltation-with no clear explanation.

So, I called the Bishop’s house and spoke to one of his daughters. I asked if these beliefs were true, and she admitted that they were. I was really shaken, but I did proceed with baptism. After the baptism, things became very strange. Every time I tried to read the Book of Mormon, I would feel ill–as if I were in a place of darkness.

Then one evening, I heard a knock at my door. It was a friend of mine who drove from another state for a surprise visit. During her stay, I told her that I had been baptized into the Mormon church. She told me she had taken the lessons many years ago. She also told me she found one of Joseph Smith’s early books. Smith actually wrote that he believed Adam was god.

I knew I had to break the connection with the Mormon church as quickly as possible. So, I called the bishop’s wife and told her I did not want any further connection with the Mormon church. She came to my house and asked me why. I told her all the things I had learned about the Mormon beliefs. She acknowledged that they were all true.

When I told her about Joseph Smith’s writings that revealed his belief that Adam was god, she could not deny that either. She said she was familiar with the “Adam/god theory.” I told her I felt that I had been deceived. During the lessons, I was told that the Mormon church is a Christian church–with the same beliefs in God and Jesus as other Christian Churches.

It didn’t end there; members of the church kept calling me and showing up at my door. I kept telling them I was not coming back to the church and to please stop contacting me.

It still didn’t stop. I received phone calls. I received things in the mail-which I marked “return to sender” and left for the Postman. Then, I started receiving things in the mail with no return address-a clear attempt to get me to open the package.

I finally had to write a formal letter to the church–telling them I wanted my name removed from their records, and would consider any further contact harassment—(though I had been harassed, since the moment I told them I was not coming back.)

I recently found some websites that give guidance and sample letters for those who wish to leave the LDS Church. One letter included a statement, “The LDS church shall NOT use my name in baptismal (or other) ordinances for the dead.”
The following is a letter to the LDS Church, by a Mormon resigning from the LDS Church and asking to be removed from all records. Notice concerns of potential proxy temple rites, after death-even though he formerly left the church.
Today, I called the Member Records Division, LDS Church, 1-800-453-3860, x22053. Brother ??? (refused to give his name) looked up my name and said they received my letter of resignation, and it was processed in May 1997.

I asked Brother ??? if he would send me a copy of my letter of resignation. He refused, saying my letter is now “property of the church.”

I asked him how my name appeared in LDS baptismal records, or any other rites performed for me. He said he was not allowed to give me that information.

I told him I am aware that baptisms and other rites are performed by proxy. He told me this would not be done,** “while you are still living.”** I told him I did not want rites performed by proxy after my death; and that I would send a letter stating the same. He was silent on the issue.

So, even though I clearly rejected Mormonism in life, my name would still be there for the LDS church to use as they see fit, once I am deceased. This is so disturbing. The disrespect is astounding. IMHO, this is a violation of religious freedom in our great country.

I am working on my letter to forbid any LDS proxy work, on by behalf, after my death.

God, forgive me for ever straying from your Christian flock,
Anna
 
Anna Scott,
Was it you or someone else who posted exactly the same story with exactly the same words a couple of months ago on this website? It would come across as more believable if you would at least change some of the words rather than use exactly the same content with no variation. Do you have it memorized?
 
As long as you guys keep misrepresenting this as ‘being subjected to’ as if the person for whom the work is done has no choice in the matter, we will never come to an agreement on the issue. Nobody is subjected to anything. "subjected,’ according to the dictionary, means “forced sumission to control by others.”

WE aren’t the ones doing that! There is no force here. There is no coercion. There is nothing there but an offer; here is what we teach. Since you are no longer mortal, you can’t do this for yourself if you decide we are correct. Therefore we will do the work for you, so that if you come to believe, and want it, it’s done.

It’s about as far FROM being ‘subjected’ to something as can possibly be.

In fact, we aren’t the ones doing the subjecting. YOU are. After all, with us they have a full, free and fair choice. They can accept it—or not. If you succeed in preventing us from offering this choice, which of us is doing the subjecting? Which of them is forcing his religious opinions upon them, and denying them the right to come to their own decisions?

Do you think that being famous, or influential in someway, has somehow made them less able to make their own decisions in the afterlife?

And NOTHING we do, or can do, would change that.

In other words, because he is famous; because you want to think of him as some larger than life stereotype, or icon, you feel you have the right to decide his eternal future for him? That you don’ thave enough faith in him (in spite of what you are saying here) that he would turn it down?

Free will means, among other things, that you have to ALLOW others their free will, whether doing so insults YOU or not.

Even when the man you allow the freedom to choose is someone famous.
 
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