LDS Baptizes and Seals St. Damien to a "wife"

[Jay53]

zerinus,

Thank you for a thorough synopsis and answers to my questions. You asked in the first one why I didn’t follow up. I thought Parker had answered my questions and was very helpful and I didn’t realize I needed to follow up. Contrary to what you may think, (and I don’t know if you do), I am not here to argue with Mormons. I was simply looking for more information because I didn’t/don’t know much about Mormonism. I always just viewed it as false, simply because it’s not Catholicism.

I believe with all my heart that the Catholic Church is the Church that Jesus founded and that He is always with us. Obviously I don’t agree with your theology and I don’t for one minute believe that your church is the one true church of Jesus. I have not seen any evidence of any Great Apostasy and quite honestly, I find many of the Mormon beliefs and interpretations of scripture to be totally bizarre. In spite of that, I had some questions which Parker, and now you, have answered which I do truly appreciate.

 

[ParkerD]

Jay,
The link you posted presented some very important statements that I think would be well for many Catholics to think about:

“The chief punishment of hell is eternal separation from God, in whom alone man can possess the life and happiness for which he was created and for which he longs” (CCC 1035)

That particular sentence is similar to what I had written about the difference between the resurrection of damnation and the resurrection of life. So in your theology, “hell” would be thought of as either the second heaven or the third heaven, since those “heavens” are eternal separation from God the Father.

“[T]he words of Christ are unequivocal. In Matthew’s Gospel he speaks clearly of those who will go to eternal punishment (cf. Matt. 25:46). [But] who will these be? The Church has never made any pronouncement in this regard” (pp. 185–6). Pope John Paul II

Thus the issue that some will go to hell is decided, but the issue of who in particular will go to hell is undecided.

(I assume Jay made this statement.)

I disagree with all the other statements and their essential premise that God wants to punish those who did not “come to their senses” and follow God’s laws on this earth, and will punish them by a fire and a worm and their bodies feel that specific torment and pain forever. To me that sounds like the gates of Hell did prevail and Satan won, if it means that millions of people suffer that kind of torment forever and ever.

But fortunately, the real Bible talks about Christ’s rescue from spirit prison, and the Bible will still be used in the spirit world to teach the spirits so they can be rescued. Yet the punishment of not being with God the Father is indeed true, and you may call that Hell if you like.

 

[Jay53]

Good evening, Parker.

Jay,
The link you posted presented some very important statements that I think would be well for many Catholics to think about:

That particular sentence is similar to what I had written about the difference between the resurrection of damnation and the resurrection of life. So in your theology, “hell” would be thought of as either the second heaven or the third heaven, since those “heavens” are eternal separation from God the Father.

That would be where we differ, because I believe that God the Father, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are all One. So, to me, Heaven is Heaven and separation from God would be Hell. There is no separate Heaven where just Jesus visits or just the Holy Spirit. God is One.

I still don’t understand the whole God the Father had/has flesh and bones idea - I just don’t see where anyone believed that prior to Joseph Smith. Jewish people certainly don’t believe that. Someone else here also mentioned that Mormons believe that God the Father became “god” by obedience to his god and so on, so I don’t understand what makes “God the Father” special to Mormons - why not worship the god that came before Him or the god that came before that one etc. I just don’t get it.

(I assume Jay made this statement.)

I didn’t - it must have been part of the quote from the link. (Although I do agree with it.) We certainly cannot make judgments as to who is in Hell and who is not. And I may have mentioned before that I don’t know if God will rescue any souls from Hell. He may very well do so, He can do as He wills, but I wouldn’t bet my eternal life on it and expect Him to rescue me if I don’t follow His commandments, nor would I encourage others to do so.

I disagree with all the other statements and their essential premise that God wants to punish those who did not “come to their senses” and follow God’s laws on this earth, and will punish them by a fire and a worm and their bodies feel that specific torment and pain forever. To me that sounds like the gates of Hell did prevail and Satan won, if it means that millions of people suffer that kind of torment forever and ever.

But fortunately, the real Bible talks about Christ’s rescue from spirit prison, and the Bible will still be used in the spirit world to teach the spirits so they can be rescued. Yet the punishment of not being with God the Father is indeed true, and you may call that Hell if you like.

Catholics don’t believe that God “wants” to punish anyone. Man has free will and thus has the ability to choose up until death obedience to God or not. If you truly repent, even if it’s at the hour or minute of death, God will forgive you - His mercy is endless. If you choose not to - you choose Hell - and because God gave us free will He respects that choice. I certainly don’t believe that God “wants” anyone to go to Hell - quite the contrary in fact.

 

[PaulDupre]

Ok, I just looked up the passages in Corinthians that you cited, and I could see how the LDS might come up with their interpretation, but again I question this interpretation in that no one else before Joseph Smith came up with this; so it creates doubt that this is what St. Paul intended. Those around St. Paul certainly didn’t interpret his words this way.

They didn’t interpret it that way because they were living in the 1st century not the 19th.

The “three heavens” as understood in the ancient world were:

1st heaven - the sky where the birds fly and the clouds float.

2nd heaven - outer space where the stars and planets move

3rd heaven - beyond space, the place where God lives (the place St. Paul was talking about).

We still say “the heavens” to mean the sky and outer space.

It had nothing to do with the Mormon 3 degrees of heaven, which is why the idea was never thought of that way by the apostles or the early church fathers.

Paul

 

[jake23]

Great disrespect! Surely the occult will feel foolish once they are in hell for there ungodly deeds.

 

[taylorc]

Finding this offensive is like finding someone’s imaginary friend rude.

 

[jake23]

Finding this offensive is like finding someone’s imaginary friend rude.

Yes you really are right. The lds cult has no authority at all for anything they claim they do and is simply imaginary, however it is scary to see poeple either uneducated and crazt enough to believe such foolishness.

 

[KathleenGee]

I just saw this post today…and I wonder if this is their way then to have people rebaptized so at judgment day we are all Mormons.

Doubt it.

It is a little annoying but we cannot push God’s hand or force their religion on us, even if we dead after wards…it is their work but has no effect on us. Nothing to worry about.