LDS beliefs about Jesus Christ?

[flyonthewall]

Except that Jesus would be the son of “a” god, not the Son of the “only” God.

Here is one of the problems I see here…You insert an “a” in there, then assign that as our belief. We do not insert an “a” in there. The fault you find is one of your own construct, not an actual belief of ours.

 

[flyonthewall]

Unless, for some reason, there was a 'revelation" thousands of years later, by a heretofore unknown angel, claiming that there are many gods, and that men can become gods, too.

Actually, it’s all right there in the Bible for those that have ears to hear and eyes to see.

But, man’s first sin was to desire to be like gods. No, thanks!

That is your understanding, but it is God’s desire that be like Him. So if our desire does not line up with God’s, what does that mean?
Man’s first sin was disobedience.

 

[po18guy]

From my perspective, the “triune God” is a construct of philosophies of man, not an eternal being.

However, you must ignore or mis-interpret an awful lot of scripture to arrive at your perspective. An awful lot.

But, it is a mark of genuine progress if you will honestly admit that you worship a different deity, and believe in a different Jesus in your faith. That, at least, is a healthy start. It is those deceivers who coyly claim that the LDS deity and Jesus are the same as the Christian God and Jesus who get under my skin. That is simple deception.

 

[flyonthewall]

However, you must ignore or mis-interpret an awful lot of scripture to arrive at your perspective. An awful lot.

And I can say the same of your belief.

But, it is a mark of genuine progress if you will honestly admit that you worship a different deity, and believe in a different Jesus in your faith. That, at least, is a healthy start. It is those deceivers who coyly claim that the LDS deity and Jesus are the same as the Christian God and Jesus who get under my skin. That is simple deception.

You are incorrect here too. We worship the same being as you do, we simply believe different things about Him.
The only ones involved in any deception are the ones that claim we worship a different Person/Being/God that what is found in the Bible.
They seem to purposely ignore the concept of understanding different things about the same person. Not a difficult concept to comprehend.

 

[po18guy]

And I can say the same of your belief.

From a position of ignorance of the faith, yes you can. But, it remains ignorance of what you criticize.

You are incorrect here too. We worship the same being as you do, we simply believe different things about Him.
The only ones involved in any deception are the ones that claim we worship a different Person/Being/God that what is found in the Bible.
They seem to purposely ignore the concept of understanding different things about the same person. Not a difficult concept to comprehend.

Let’s see:

My God is eternal. Yours is not.
My God is pure Spirit. Yours was a plain old human somewhere, sometime.
My God alway was, yours was not.
My God eternally co-existed with Son and Holy Spirit. Yours does not.
My God conceived His only Son’s human nature by the power of His co-eternal Spirit. Yours has a human male body and used the sexual organ of that body to have intercourse with a woman to make someone you call “Jesus”
My God sent numerous prophets to announce the arrival of His Son, the final Prophet. Yours sent a man who was killed in a jail break, and in the subsequent power struggle, was followed by a succession of other “prophets”.
My God leaves evidence of Himself in all creation. Yours doesn’t even leave the mysterious golden plates behind, which only one man claimed to be able to interpret by sticking his face in a hat.
My God declares that there is no other beside Him. Yours says “C’mon, you can be a god, too!” (if you’re a man).
My God created all that is. Yours did not even create the planet that he is god of.
My God commands me not to lie. Yours says it’s OK, as long as you lie to build the LDS up.

Please do not try the old “same god” deception. We’re onto it here.

 

[RedDawgMCM]

[BIBLEDRB]Exodus 20:2-3[/BIBLEDRB]

What about this one…

Which is the passage I thought we were talking about any way

Actually, you may want to check the words as I think the passage says “no other God beside me.” (Isaiah 44 and 45). That conveys a meaning of “instead of me”. It also refers specifically in those passages to the Savior being the Only Savior. This is the major point of those passages, with the commandment to the Israelites that they worship no other god and particularly no god made with hands.

 

[stevekehl]

During a recent conversation, someone I know claimed that LDS are not Christians. (I know that this is a common belief among non-LDS, but bear with me). I questioned this, because as I understood it, LDS believe that Jesus is the Son of God, and that he is Christ and Redeemer. This other person claimed that the LDS do not believe in Christ, that they believe he was a prophet and a great man, but not the true Christ.

I have never read the Book of Mormon, so I didn’t really feel confident arguing. The other person claims that the Book of Mormon has conflicting messages from the Bible and that it states that Jesus was not the Savior.

I’m still pretty sure he was wrong. And (name removed by moderator)ut from LDS would be appreciated.

The LDS church is not Christian. They present the book of Mormon as another testament of Jesus Christ. Paul talked about such alternate gospels.
2Cor. 11:3 But now I fear that you will be tricked, just as Eve was tricked by that lying snake. I am afraid that you might stop thinking about Christ in an honest and sincere way. 4 We told you about Jesus, and you received the Holy Spirit and accepted our message. But you let some people tell you about another Jesus. Now you are ready to receive another spirit and accept a different message.
And again in Galatians.
Gal 1:6 I marvel that ye are so quickly removing from him that called you in the grace of Christ unto a different gospel; 7 which is not another gospel only there are some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, should preach unto you any gospel other than that which we preached unto you, let him be anathema. 9 As we have said before, so say I now again, if any man preacheth unto you any gospel other than that which ye received, let him be anathema.

According to Mormon doctrine, an angel brought gold plates to Joseph Smith and a new gospel was written on them in “Reformed Egyptian” which only Smith could interpret (see verse 8 above)
Mormon’s teach that everyone goes to one of three heavens. Devote LDS men go to the third heaven, the highest, and with time can ascend to godhood and be given their own planet to rule. At this point they, with their earthly wives, generate children who become the souls of inabitants on their personal planet. Any of this sound Christian?
If you still have any doubts this last bit of doctrine will convince you. Mormon’s believe that God in bodily form had sex with the Virgin Mary to impregnate her with Jesus. I nearly gagged when I read this.

For more information check out the books “Kingdom of the Cults” by Walter Martin and “Resoning from the Scriptures with Mormons” by Ron Rhodes.

 

[po18guy]

The LDS church is not Christian. They present the book of Mormon as another testament of Jesus Christ. Paul talked about such alternate gospels.
2Cor. 11:3 But now I fear that you will be tricked, just as Eve was tricked by that lying snake. I am afraid that you might stop thinking about Christ in an honest and sincere way. 4 We told you about Jesus, and you received the Holy Spirit and accepted our message. But you let some people tell you about another Jesus. Now you are ready to receive another spirit and accept a different message.
And again in Galatians.
Gal 1:6 I marvel that ye are so quickly removing from him that called you in the grace of Christ unto a different gospel; 7 which is not another gospel only there are some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, should preach unto you any gospel other than that which we preached unto you, let him be anathema. 9 As we have said before, so say I now again, if any man preacheth unto you any gospel other than that which ye received, let him be anathema.

According to Mormon doctrine, an angel brought gold plates to Joseph Smith and a new gospel was written on them in “Reformed Egyptian” which only Smith could interpret (see verse 8 above)
Mormon’s teach that everyone goes to one of three heavens. Devote LDS men go to the third heaven, the highest, and with time can ascend to godhood and be given their own planet to rule. At this point they, with their earthly wives, generate children who become the souls of inabitants on their personal planet. Any of this sound Christian?
If you still have any doubts this last bit of doctrine will convince you. Mormon’s believe that God in bodily form had sex with the Virgin Mary to impregnate her with Jesus. I nearly gagged when I read this.

For more information check out the books “Kingdom of the Cults” by Walter Martin and “Resoning from the Scriptures with Mormons” by Ron Rhodes.

Not to mention those infamous “holy lies” that can be used to build membership up. You and I know all about the “liar and father of lies” Too bad that all do not.

 

[JeanMichel]

The LDS church is not Christian. They present the book of Mormon as another testament of Jesus Christ. Paul talked about such alternate gospels.
2Cor. 11:3 But now I fear that you will be tricked, just as Eve was tricked by that lying snake. I am afraid that you might stop thinking about Christ in an honest and sincere way. 4 We told you about Jesus, and you received the Holy Spirit and accepted our message. But you let some people tell you about another Jesus. Now you are ready to receive another spirit and accept a different message.
And again in Galatians.
Gal 1:6 I marvel that ye are so quickly removing from him that called you in the grace of Christ unto a different gospel; 7 which is not another gospel only there are some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, should preach unto you any gospel other than that which we preached unto you, let him be anathema. 9 As we have said before, so say I now again, if any man preacheth unto you any gospel other than that which ye received, let him be anathema.

According to Mormon doctrine, an angel brought gold plates to Joseph Smith and a new gospel was written on them in “Reformed Egyptian” which only Smith could interpret (see verse 8 above)
Mormon’s teach that everyone goes to one of three heavens. Devote LDS men go to the third heaven, the highest, and with time can ascend to godhood and be given their own planet to rule. At this point they, with their earthly wives, generate children who become the souls of inabitants on their personal planet. Any of this sound Christian?
If you still have any doubts this last bit of doctrine will convince you. Mormon’s believe that God in bodily form had sex with the Virgin Mary to impregnate her with Jesus. I nearly gagged when I read this.

For more information check out the books “Kingdom of the Cults” by Walter Martin and “Resoning from the Scriptures with Mormons” by Ron Rhodes.

It does not even sound like Mormon doctrine, but rather the disinformation that is so common among anti-Mormons. Strange that we repeat such information like it is true. I wonder if we would do the same with anti-Catholic disinformation? Do you accept that anti-Catholic information is true about Catholic doctrines? Of course not! Then why would any of us accept an anti-Mormon to tell the truth about Mormon beliefs?

 

[RebeccaJ]

**stevekehl didn’t say anything that Mormon LEADERS have not taught. Leaders who Mormons believe to be prophets. So if it is disinformation, it is coming from Mormonism. Whether or not any individual Mormon believes what their so-called prophets teach, is a crapshoot. Maybe an individual believes it, maybe they don’t.

Anti-Catholicism is based on a misunderstanding of what people think Catholicism is, not what Catholic leaders have espoused as doctrine, and individual Catholics actually believe as doctrine.
**

 

[Marie5890]

Mormon’s believe that God in bodily form had sex with the Virgin Mary to impregnate her with Jesus.

This is not a 20th century LDS belief that was either taught nor believed. Perhaps 19th century, but not 20th.

I know it was not taught when I was LDS.

 

[flyonthewall]

From a position of ignorance of the faith, yes you can. But, it remains ignorance of what you criticize.

Let’s see:

My God is eternal. Yours is not.
My God is pure Spirit. Yours was a plain old human somewhere, sometime.
My God alway was, yours was not.
My God eternally co-existed with Son and Holy Spirit. Yours does not.
My God conceived His only Son’s human nature by the power of His co-eternal Spirit. Yours has a human male body and used the sexual organ of that body to have intercourse with a woman to make someone you call “Jesus”
My God sent numerous prophets to announce the arrival of His Son, the final Prophet. Yours sent a man who was killed in a jail break, and in the subsequent power struggle, was followed by a succession of other “prophets”.
My God leaves evidence of Himself in all creation. Yours doesn’t even leave the mysterious golden plates behind, which only one man claimed to be able to interpret by sticking his face in a hat.
My God declares that there is no other beside Him. Yours says “C’mon, you can be a god, too!” (if you’re a man).
My God created all that is. Yours did not even create the planet that he is god of.
My God commands me not to lie. Yours says it’s OK, as long as you lie to build the LDS up.

Please do not try the old “same god” deception. We’re onto it here.

I was going to post a response to each of these items, but it turned out that it would just be mean spirited.
Let me just say that all that you have written clearly demonstrates that you have no idea what you about. So I find it very ironic you use the term “ignorant” to start your post.

 

[flyonthewall]

The LDS church is not Christian. They present the book of Mormon as another testament of Jesus Christ. Paul talked about such alternate gospels.
2Cor. 11:3 But now I fear that you will be tricked, just as Eve was tricked by that lying snake. I am afraid that you might stop thinking about Christ in an honest and sincere way. 4 We told you about Jesus, and you received the Holy Spirit and accepted our message. But you let some people tell you about another Jesus. Now you are ready to receive another spirit and accept a different message.
And again in Galatians.
Gal 1:6 I marvel that ye are so quickly removing from him that called you in the grace of Christ unto a different gospel; 7 which is not another gospel only there are some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, should preach unto you any gospel other than that which we preached unto you, let him be anathema. 9 As we have said before, so say I now again, if any man preacheth unto you any gospel other than that which ye received, let him be anathema.

We believe these verses also, and have no problem with them

According to Mormon doctrine, an angel brought gold plates to Joseph Smith and a new gospel was written on them in “Reformed Egyptian” which only Smith could interpret (see verse 8 above)

FALSE. Not a new gospel, but another testament of the gospel of Jesus Christ. Please show anything from the Book of Mormon that would indicate a new gospel.

Mormon’s teach that everyone goes to one of three heavens. Devote LDS men go to the third heaven, the highest, and with time can ascend to godhood and be given their own planet to rule. At this point, with their earthly wives, generate children who become the souls of inabitants on their personal planet. Any of this sound Christian?

Not one of 3 heavens, one of 3 kingdoms. We believe we can become like God, just has He has stated, in the Bible no less.

If you still have any doubts this last bit of doctrine will convince you. Mormon’s believe that God in bodily form had sex with the Virgin Mary to impregnate her with Jesus. I nearly gagged when I read this.
For more information check out the books “Kingdom of the Cults” by Walter Martin and “Resoning from the Scriptures with Mormons” by Ron Rhodes.

This is not true. Simply put, this is a lie fabricated by anti-mormons that gets re-vomited up every now and again.
I would say “get your facts straight”, but this is not based on fact.

 

[z_0101]

We have always maintained that we are not mainstream or traditional Christians. We are not Catholic Christians, we are not Baptist Christians, Methodist, Quaker Eastern Orthodox, Greek Orthodox, Lutheran, Calvinist, etc., but Christian none the less.

If you would not read into the statement by Gordon B. Hinkley, you would understand that what he was saying is we do not believe in the same THINGS about Jesus, but we still believe in JESUS. We worship the SAME God, but have differing beliefs about Him, such as the Godhead vs the Trinity.

@flyonthewall:
Please believe that I mean no offense in my reply…

So we agree:

• The LDS can only claim to be Christian by saying they are followers of Christ.
• The LDS is not Christian in the sense of the Catholic Church nor other Catholic derived Christian faiths, i.e. Lutheran, Baptist, Methodist, etc…

This is exactly my point, from the beginning; there has been a “distancing” between LDS and the other Christian faiths.

Actually, I’ve read quite a lot about the beginnings of the LDS Church and they really didn’t claim to be “Christian” in the sense of the word in use at the time of the founders. Instead, there is a claim of “The Great Apostasy” within the Catholic Church, although the LDS cannot seem to provide a date when this happened, thus, all Catholic based Christianity has been lost to God for centuries. As I said, in my family there is a very large number of LDS members. I have had quite the access to various texts of the LDS Church; I have read most of them and speak with some understanding of the LDS faith.

• The LDS can only claim to be Christian by saying they are followers of Christ. The issue is that the Christ LDS follow is NOT the same as the Christ that the other Christian faiths follow - period. It is fairly well stated as such in the BOM thru the description of God and Christ and where each came from, in the Book of Abraham amongst other texts of the LDS Church, and others in this thread have pointed out the passages in the Bible where the differences are quite plain.

As for what Mr Hinkley said… I was not Catholic at the time I heard his interview, as a matter of fact, I was Agnostic ( dictionary.reference.com/browse/agnostic) and actually quite open to differing viewpoints; thus, what I heard was truly unbiased in my mind and in my heart. What Mr. Hinkly said, without qualification, that LDS does not worship the same God as other Christians - period. The quote I included in my original post was as close to what I remembered his statement to be that I could find: “President Hinckley spoke of those outside the Church who say Latter-day Saints ‘do not believe in the traditional Christ. - 'No, I don’t. The traditional Christ of whom they speak is not the Christ of whom I speak.’ ” —LDS Church News, June 20, 1998, p. 7

Peace Be With You -Z

 

[flyonthewall]

@flyonthewall:
Please believe that I mean no offense in my reply…

So we agree:

• The LDS can only claim to be Christian by saying they are followers of Christ.
• The LDS is not Christian in the sense of the Catholic Church nor other Catholic derived Christian faiths, i.e. Lutheran, Baptist, Methodist, etc…

This is exactly my point, from the beginning; there has been a “distancing” between LDS and the other Christian faiths.

I don’t see it as a “distancing”, but rather a distinction. Generally speaking, there were only two parts of Christianity, Catholic and Protestant. We are neither.

Actually, I’ve read quite a lot about the beginnings of the LDS Church and they really didn’t claim to be “Christian” in the sense of the word in use at the time of the founders. Instead, there is a claim of “The Great Apostasy” within the Catholic Church, although the LDS cannot seem to provide a date when this happened, thus, all Catholic based Christianity has been lost to God for centuries. As I said, in my family there is a very large number of LDS members. I have had quite the access to various texts of the LDS Church; I have read most of them and speak with some understanding of the LDS faith.

okay.

• The LDS can only claim to be Christian by saying they are followers of Christ. The issue is that the Christ LDS follow is NOT the same as the Christ that the other Christian faiths follow - period. It is fairly well stated as such in the BOM thru the description of God and Christ and where each came from, in the Book of Abraham amongst other texts of the LDS Church, and others in this thread have pointed out the passages in the Bible where the differences are quite plain.

The person is the same, it is the concept or beliefs that differ.

As for what Mr Hinkley said… I was not Catholic at the time I heard his interview, as a matter of fact, I was Agnostic ( dictionary.reference.com/browse/agnostic) and actually quite open to differing viewpoints; thus, what I heard was truly unbiased in my mind and in my heart. What Mr. Hinkly said, without qualification, that LDS does not worship the same God as other Christians - period. The quote I included in my original post was as close to what I remembered his statement to be that I could find: “President Hinckley spoke of those outside the Church who say Latter-day Saints ‘do not believe in the traditional Christ. - 'No, I don’t. The traditional Christ of whom they speak is not the Christ of whom I speak.’ ” —LDS Church News, June 20, 1998, p. 7

Peace Be With You -Z

And if you had read or seen the whole dialogue you would have a better picture and see where you quote only part of what was stated.
What he actually said was:

As a Church we have critics, many of them. They say we do not believe in the traditional Christ of Christianity. There is some substance to what they say. Our faith, our knowledge is not based on ancient tradition, the creeds which came of a finite understanding and out of the almost infinite discussions of men trying to arrive at a definition of the risen Christ. Our faith, our knowledge comes of the witness of a prophet in this dispensation who saw before him the great God of the universe and His Beloved Son, the resurrected Lord Jesus Christ. They spoke to him. He spoke with Them. He testified openly, unequivocally, and unabashedly of that great vision. It was a vision of the Almighty and of the Redeemer of the world, glorious beyond our understanding but certain and unequivocating in the knowledge which it brought. It is out of that knowledge, rooted deep in the soil of modern revelation, that we, in the words of Nephi, “talk of Christ, we rejoice in Christ, we preach of Christ, we prophesy of Christ, and we write according to our prophecies, that [we and] our children may know to what source [we] may look for a remission of [our] sins”

 

[catholic-rcia]

I
The person is the same, it is the concept or beliefs that differ.

Its black and white. Christians weather Catholic or Protestant all believe in the same God, the Same Jesus and the same Holy Spirit . Mormons believe in an entirely different God, Jesus and Holy Spirit. They confuse this by appearing to be Christian. They bear false witness regarding Christianity. Flyonthewall. you are doing this on this forum right now by saying you believe in the same Jesus Christians believe in. Just go with your beliefs and be honest in them. You believe in a different God than Christians. You have accepted your different god as your reality. It would be good f your religion called themselves Mormons, put your beliefs foreword in the light and convert in honesty. Jesus is the same whether you are Catholic of Mormon. For that matter whether you beleive in Him or not. He does not change.

 

[z_0101]

I don’t see it as a “distancing”, but rather a distinction. Generally speaking, there were only two parts of Christianity, Catholic and Protestant. We are neither.

The person is the same, it is the concept or beliefs that differ.

OK… semantics for the “distancing” verses “distinction” and yet, here you say, that you are neither Catholic or Protestant and that these are the only two ways to be Christian? Then, by your own statement, LDS are not “Generally speaking” part of the Christian faith but something else… but not Christian.

Mormons profoundly distance themselves from orthodox Christianity thru their beliefs, they define a God that does not coincide with the God of Christianity in that, as stated before in this thread, the fundamental basis of the LDS faith is different from that of the Christian faith, for example:
LDS does not interpret canonical Scripture as being solely the Old Testament and New Testament, as given in any version of the Christian Bible, Instead, they add the Book of Mormon and founder Joseph Smith’s other works, The Pearl of Great Price and Doctrine and Covenants.
LDS members do not believe in the Christian Trinity. Mormons believe God the Father and God the Son, two separate beings, have fleshly bodies and that the Holy Ghost is a spirit man – a third separate being. Not the triune God of the Christian faiths
LDS members teach that God was once a finite being who achieved his exalted rank by “progressing.” That MAN, HUMAN, became GOD, not that God created Man and so forth.

And if you had read or seen the whole dialogue you would have a better picture and see where you quote only part of what was stated.
What he actually said was:
As a Church we have critics, many of them. They say we do not believe in the traditional Christ of Christianity. There is some substance to what they say. Our faith, our knowledge is not based on ancient tradition, the creeds which came of a finite understanding and out of the almost infinite discussions of men trying to arrive at a definition of the risen Christ. Our faith, our knowledge comes of the witness of a prophet in this dispensation who saw before him the great God of the universe and His Beloved Son, the resurrected Lord Jesus Christ. They spoke to him. He spoke with Them. He testified openly, unequivocally, and unabashedly of that great vision. It was a vision of the Almighty and of the Redeemer of the world, glorious beyond our understanding but certain and unequivocating in the knowledge which it brought. It is out of that knowledge, rooted deep in the soil of modern revelation, that we, in the words of Nephi, “talk of Christ, we rejoice in Christ, we preach of Christ, we prophesy of Christ, and we write according to our prophecies, that [we and] our children may know to what source [we] may look for a remission of [our] sins”

Really?
Look at the third and fourth sentences of your quote… LDS beliefs are NOT based on the foundations of the Christian faiths - as spoken by a Prophet of the LDS Church. Our God comes from the word of Christ as given to and witnessed by the Apostles directly from Christ and passed on to the Church as established by Christ… not an angel, but Christ.

It has been some years since I heard the interview; however, I believe that your quote of the dialogue was from much earlier in the discussion. The quote I gave was given only after the host point blank asked what does the LDS believe and “President Hinckley spoke of those outside the Church who say Latter-day Saints ‘do not believe in the traditional Christ. - 'No, I don’t. The traditional Christ of whom they speak is not the Christ of whom I speak.’ ”

:sad_yes: I would really appreciate a source for your quote!

 

[KnitMum]

This is taken from this page.

"Ezra Taft Benson taught:
“The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints proclaims that Jesus Christ is the Son of God in the most literal sense. The body in which He performed His mission in the flesh was sired by that same Holy Being we worship as God, our Eternal Father. Jesus was not the son of Joseph, nor was He begotten by the Holy Ghost. He is the Son of the Eternal Father.” (The Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson, pg.7; cf. Come unto Christ, p. 4)

Orson Pratt taught:
“[God] had a lawful right to overshadow the Virgin Mary in the capacity of a husband, and beget a Son , …it may be that … He intended after the resurrection to again take her as one of his own wives to raise up immortal spirits (bear his children) in eternity.” ('The Seer, p. 158)

The 1985 edition of Gospel Principles teaches:
“Thus, God the Father became the literal father of Jesus Christ. Jesus was born of a mortal mother and an immortal father.” (p.57)"

There is much more, but I didn’t want to take up too much room.

 

[po18guy]

I was going to post a response to each of these items, but it turned out that it would just be mean spirited.
Let me just say that all that you have written clearly demonstrates that you have no idea what you about. So I find it very ironic you use the term “ignorant” to start your post.

Set the record straight, then. Please. But, not the usual “we are just like other Christians” stuff, because the LDS are not.

 

[po18guy]

I was going to post a response to each of these items, but it turned out that it would just be mean spirited.
Let me just say that all that you have written clearly demonstrates that you have no idea what you about. So I find it very ironic you use the term “ignorant” to start your post.

Humor this poor ignorant Catholic then. You could gain a convert! Isn’t that your purpose?