LDS beliefs about Jesus Christ?

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pinay said:
The doctrine of men becoming gods is exacty the same in Catholic and LDS.

The nature of God is different between Catholic and LDS. So yes, I do understand the differences.

Is that clearer now?
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No, it is not exactly the same.

So I’ll say again, you aren’t the well-catechized Catholic you claim to be.
 
Pinay–

CC460…the Mormons and their supporters on a past thread, jumped all over me saying , see, even your catechism is saying we are as gods…

But what they didn’t do, as is the case with all critics and deniers of the true faith has to do with truth itself…

They took the piece out of context…my instructor was appointed by then Archbishop Levada who is now head of the Congregation for Faith at the Vatican, appointed by the Pope…orthodoxy.

We had gone through the entire catechism on faith, doctrine, and morality several times under different class topics. CC460 was the only piece we were to add a comment to, and it was…‘only in relationship to God’.

With all your education at the Master’s level…you should know to read in context…and all the prior catechetical teachings coming up to CC460…as well as the references to the specifics of CC460…came prior-- to the context of the Eucharist – as centrality of faith…and the latter…quotes from St. Irenaeus who fought heresy…about the best of them all, as he faced all the heresies coming out after the introduction of the Good News by the Apostles…reflected the scope of the human condition-- he could argue the same points today…and St. Thomas Aquinas’…being drawn from his teachings on the Eucharist.

Both are rolling in their graves seeing their faith being taken out of context when over and over again they had claimed the great centrality of the Body and Blood of Jesus Christ as the centrality of faith.

Wanting to be as gods comes is desire from Satan. Satan tempted Christ to bow down and worship him.

Adam and Eve faced the reality of God; they had everything…to contemplate on God is to contemplate on Wisdom itself…and Jesus is the Eternal Word…not Joseph Smith.

So to use CC460 to prove your stand to become as gods from the Catholic source…you willed to take it out of context and instead using it how Satan wants…

I say this seriously…but for people with your educational background to deliberately take this catechetical quote out of context…is again…falling on a dubious and insincere construct.

The Mormons are using you and you don’t realize it. I am sorry to speak like this, but with your country not having access to what we have had here…they are taking advantage of you and your failings of not meeting authentic Catholics in your region…
 
RebeccaJ said:
No, it is not exactly the same.

So I’ll say again, you aren’t the well-catechized Catholic you claim to be.
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I agree, Kathleen.

I never heard anything like Pinay is stating. “Men becoming gods.” In the Protestant or Catholic church.

We Christians, are to humble ourselves before the one true God and to live our lives as Jesus the only son of God taught us to do so. Our salvation is through Jesus.

Pinay, if you don’t believe me. Just one time. Attend a Protestant service. Since Catholism seems to be out of the question for you.

You will clearly see Christians are never taught. We are little god and goddeses. This belief goes against the first three commandments and is considered to be mortal sin by not only Christians, but Jewish and Muslim as well.

I’m not disrespecting your religious choice. I just don’t view it as being a Christian denomination. I see it as pagan.
 
pinay said:
Well then, tell me the difference.
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pinay - you were taught this as a Catholic??

I have never heard of this from anyone - priest or layperson.

Here is a commentary that is helpful:

Discussion: While St. Athanasius’s quote might be easily misunderstood, the previous line in the Catechism of the Catholic Church (Catechism), from St. Irenaeus, provides the appropriate context: “The Son of God became the Son of man: so that man, by entering into communion with the Word and thus receiving divine sonship, might become a son of God” (no. 460). To be the Son of God and to be a son of God are therefore two very different things: Christ is Son by nature (the “only Son” in John 3:16), while we are sons by grace (“sons in the Son” according to Gaudium et Spes, 22). Further, since man is a creature and there is only one God, man can never be God in the proper sense. Within the context of this paragraph, we see that St. Athanasius’s statement means something other than a man becoming the one God.

🙂
 
pinay said:
Well then, tell me the difference.
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What I see pinay is a compartmentalization of ideas, and a reduction of teachings to the compartments. For example, if I say, I walked out of my house today and saw a lot of green, and you say, me too! Great, now we can say we have no differences in what we saw today!

Someone noticing our conversation will say, wait a minute, what was so green that you saw. I say, every car on the road was painted green! You say, all the grass on the hills was a vibrant green!

OK, so maybe we do have differences in what we saw. Shoot.

You are doing this with Mormonism. You are compartmentalizing, which is the only way for a Mormon to navigate the labrinth within itself, let alone bringing Catholicism into the picture.

It is how Mormons are trained to think, and when it comes to religion, you have forgotten how to think in context of the whole picture. You are reducing into compartments.

Kathleen explained well the whole picture, but I will not be surprised when your reply is based on how you have compartmentalized.
 
When I began to study online…what came up was the compartmentalizing of thought of Mormons.

Thanks, Lax…and St. Thomas Aquinas never, ever taught we become as gods…that is paganism…

That is what Arius was re-positioning people to come, whether he realized it or not…

One dissenting man…all from a particular philosophy, not the center of faith based on the living relationship with Jesus Christ.

Dissension is on the level as witchcraft…in the Epistles…

St. Peter in his second letter, …that we were to remain faithful to the witnesses of Christ…the Apostles themselves. Read the second chapter of Peter…

Pinay – the language and ways of the Apostles are not the ways of the Mormons.
 
A Catholic never believes they are going become Who God IS. God is God, meaning He is the great I AM. We are not the great WILL BE. We cannot take on the nature of God, because we are not God from God, as Jesus Christ is. We are God’s loved and cherished Creation.

This is very foundational, and making a reduction to a single sentence, does not null out our differences.
 
RebeccaJ said:
A Catholic never believes they are going become Who God IS. God is God, meaning He is the great I AM. We are not the great WILL BE. We cannot take on the nature of God, because we are not God from God, as Jesus Christ is. We are God’s loved and cherished Creation.

This is very foundational, and making a reduction to a single sentence, does not null out our differences.
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Pinay, this is believed by Protestants too.
 
KathleenGee said:
When I began to study online…what came up was the compartmentalizing of thought of Mormons.

Thanks, Lax…and St. Thomas Aquinas never, ever taught we become as gods…that is paganism…

That is what Arius was re-positioning people to come, whether he realized it or not…

One dissenting man…all from a particular philosophy, not the center of faith based on the living relationship with Jesus Christ.

Dissension is on the level as witchcraft…in the Epistles…

St. Peter in his second letter, …that we were to remain faithful to the witnesses of Christ…the Apostles themselves. Read the second chapter of Peter…

Pinay – the language and ways of the Apostles are not the ways of the Mormons.
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You know, I can see how a non-Catholic might misunderstand CCC 460. One would have to read the footnotes to see which Church Fathers contributed to the whole paragraph.

Until somewhat recently, I did not have a clue who the Early Church Fathers even were!

The one thing about the Catholic Church and Her 2,000 years of history - one has to peel it layer by layer sometimes to understand the deeper mysteries.

But, as you say Kathleen, we are to remain faithful and to defend Her teachings.🙂

It is not possible to cross reference the idea that we can become gods with any other teaching. It must not be read out of context.
 
RebeccaJ said:
A Catholic never believes they are going become Who God IS. God is God, meaning He is the great I AM. We are not the great WILL BE. We cannot take on the nature of God, because we are not God from God, as Jesus Christ is. We are God’s loved and cherished Creation.

This is very foundational, and making a reduction to a single sentence, does not null out our differences.
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hi Rebecca - 🙂

Really, when we think about who God really is…Creator of the universe…having no end or beginning…incorporeal…we can never even think about becoming Him!

On the other hand, if He is as the Mormons say, then He was a man with a body who acted as a man with interpersonal relationships…maybe that is where the misunderstanding begins.

The LDS do not have the understanding of God given to us by the Jewish people in the Old Testament. I will never understand how they can claim to be Christian and yet not believe in the God of the Old Testament as given to us by the Jewish people.🤷
 
lax16 said:
pinay - you were taught this as a Catholic??

I have never heard of this from anyone - priest or layperson.
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I agree, yet every Mormon that comes to CAF makes the claim that Mormonism and Catholicism teach the same thing. I wonder if it is as recruiting tool or just another attempt by Mormons to be just like us.
 
Stephen168 said:
I agree, yet every Mormon that comes to CAF makes the claim that Mormonism and Catholicism teach the same thing. I wonder if it is as recruiting tool or just another attempt by Mormons to be just like us.
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I guess they must be using CCC 460 to back up their claims because certainly it is not taught ANYWHERE else!

Taken out of context it might catch some off guard. I would really be surprised for a Catholic-turned-Mormon to make these claims though…really far-fetched.
 
This is what I’m trying to tell you all guys!

**I am not stating that you, nor I, misunderstand CC460.

I am telling you that you misunderstand the position of the LDS Church when they say men may become gods.**

I am trying to tell you, that men becoming gods is not what separates the Catholic Church from the LDS Church - because that is the same. What you as a Catholic believe about men becoming gods is the same thing that the LDS Church believe about men becoming gods.

The problem is when a Catholic tries to interpret what the LDS mean by “men becoming gods”… it is also the same problem when an LDS tries to interpret what Catholics mean by “men becoming gods”.

And I can see it clearly from where I sit - because, I used to be on the Catholic side of things arguing with the LDS about this same exact concept… until I finally sat down and studied what exactly the LDS Church believe about it and bounced it against what I believe!

Where the LDS differ is in the nature of God and the nature of man. Which we already know - Catholics are Trinitarians, LDS are not. And on top of that, LDS believe in a pre-mortal existence.

I can give you a point by point dissertation on this exact topic - complete with scripture verses - both on the Catholic understanding and the LDS understanding - point out where the two religions diverge and let the chips fall as they may. As a matter of fact, I can probably just cut-and-paste that discussion because I already have it all written down somewhere in my notes.

Unfortunately, that kind of discussion is not something you guys here, well, maybe with the exception of SteveVH, is open to. Because - you can’t put out something like that to a community who has no interest in understanding each other. In that kind of discussion, the Holy Spirit has to be present, otherwise, it will only end up as an argument instead of a discussion.

It is unfortunate that a thread in the Non-Catholic forum titled “LDS beliefs about Jesus Christ?” cannot really fully discuss what the LDS believe about Jesus Christ because anything an LDS posts about Jesus Christ will not be received as an intellectual study but as an opportunity to bash the LDS on the head with her heresy.

That’s okay. Like I said before, this is Catholic Answers Forum, not LDS Answers Forum. You, Catholics, decide what you want to know.
 
Stephen168 said:
I agree, yet every Mormon that comes to CAF makes the claim that Mormonism and Catholicism teach the same thing. I wonder if it is as recruiting tool or just another attempt by Mormons to be just like us.
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Oh no… the LDS Church is built on the premise of a Great Apostasy - we canot be like you.

And we don’t go to internet forums to “recruit” - we spend several years out of our lives to serve full-time missions. Internet forums are like… I don’t know - playing in the kiddie pool next to the ocean.
 
Catholics recognize that Christ stands before the heart of every person…don’t see that with ‘The Saints’.
 
pinay said:
I can give you a point by point dissertation on this exact topic - complete with scripture verses - both on the Catholic understanding and the LDS understanding - point out where the two religions diverge and let the chips fall as they may. As a matter of fact, I can probably just cut-and-paste that discussion because I already have it all written down somewhere in my notes.
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Cool, give it to us. You might start by responding to post #368 as a spring board for your dissertation. Because post #368 is my understand of the difference. You claim they are the same; then give us “a point by point dissertation on this exact topic - complete with scripture verses”
 
Pinay,

Can you begin to see the mirrors within Mormonism?
There is really little difference between LDS and Catholicism…but then you read, ’ We are not like you’ makes me want to add, ‘not like those people’…what do you call this form of the LDS virtue?

And in what context did the Mormons show you CC460??? They misled you,…they are prepping you…
 
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