LDS beliefs about Jesus Christ?

[Peter_John]

Just another rather large difference. Confessing of one’s sins is a cause for celebration by the priest and the one confessing. The priests that I know tell me that there is no greater joy then hearing a good confession from one who has been away for years and has finally returned home. This is not some interrogation that one must pass in order to maintain a certain status within the Church. It is the experience of God’s mercy and forgiveness, plain and simple. No records are kept and it is not discussed with anyone, including the other clergy.

Once again, however, why do you feel the need to equate the two in the first place? Why can’t you just let this practice (LDS confessions) stand on its own merits without attempting to equate it with the Catholic sacrament of Reconcilliation. They really are completely different. It just seems that LDS members here are constantly trying to validate their own practices by saying “see you do the same thing”, when, in fact, we don’t, but that is beside the point.

I have to add that while it is not an interrogation, Priests sometimes know what someone is going to confess already – even very private sins. Padre Pio is probably the best example of this. One woman recounted that upon hearing her confession he asked , “Is that all?” when she said she thought so, he had her climb the peak near San Giovanni Rotundo and pray some decades of the Rosary.

That happened three times and she could still think of nothing else. Then Padre Pio said, “He could have been a priest, a bishop, the pope!” Then the woman said (this was a long time ago) she did not know abortion was a sin. Padre Pio said, “It is killing!”

Just thought I would share that story.

 

[Tony888]

Tony888, this is inaccurate. A Catholic can confess to any priest or bishop. It doesn’t have to be, and is not required, that a person confess only to the pastor of the parish where communion is received.

Also, even if one does confess to the pastor of the parish, that doesn’t necessarily mean that is who the person will receive communion from. It could be a deacon, another priest, or an extraordinary minister of Holy Communion (EMHC).

For example, where I habitually sit at Mass, I rarely receive communion from our pastor. It is almost exclusively a deacon, visiting priest, or EMHC…and I prefer a priest in another parish as my confessor (the same priest who I have always gone to).

Rebecca, lets not get confused on what I’ve said

• I don’t believe they are the same, but there are similarities
• While a Catholic can see any priest for confession, he typically will see his local parish priest
• Both the LDS and the Catholic must examine their conscience to make their confessions.
• The LDS can lie in their temple recommend interview just like a Catholic can choose not to confess serious sins to their priest.in the confessional
• If both are honest, they will receive guidance from their local church authority.
• Under certain situations, said advice may be to abstain from communion for a period of time.
• both the LDS and RCC can ignore that advice and partake of communion, in their church/ward or by attending another church/ward meeting
• in the end, God will be our judge

 

[Miriam1947]

Rebecca, lets not get confused on what I’ve said
-1) I don’t believe they are the same, but there are similarities
-2) While a Catholic can see any priest for confession, he typically will see his local parish priest
-3) Both the LDS and the Catholic must examine their conscience to make their confessions.

• 4)The LDS can lie in their temple recommend interview just like a Catholic can choose not to confess serious sins to their priest.in the confessional
• 5)If both are honest, they will receive guidance from their local church authority.
  -6) Under certain situations, said advice may be to abstain from communion for a period of time.
• 7)both the LDS and RCC can ignore that advice and partake of communion, in their church/ward or by attending another church/ward meeting
• 8)in the end, God will be our judge

1. I don’t see many similarities
2. Some see their local priests, some don’t. It is completely up to us.
3. True
4. If a Catholic omits a mortal sin then even if the priest has absolved them, they are not really forgiven. They must confess truthfully.
5. A Catholic’s local church authority is the priest.
6. I don’t know of any priest who would tell someone who has been absolved from their sins, that they may not receive and must abstain.
7. Anyone can do anything wrong. Whether RCC or LDS.
8. Yes, God is our judge.

 

[PaulDupre]

Thought I already responded to this. Your remark reflects a misunderstanding of Reconciliation I also had as a Mormon because of the hierarchical authoritarian organization of Mormonism, similar to the military. In fact, I was taught in Aaronic Priesthood classes that it is modelled on the military organization of Israel following the Exodus, with Moses at the top and subordinate leaders below so that Moses did not have to deal with all the little problems.

Catholicism allows much more local autonomy than this, and Reconciliation is a good example. My Priest is not a judge over me the same way that LDS leaders are judges over their local congregations. I can confess to any Priest, active or retired, any place I go. I regularly make confession to a retired priest who lives in my parish, and get frequent adice and counsel from him (it is such a blessing to be able to sit down and just chat a couple of hours eevery couple of weeks with someone who has cultivated his relationship to Christ as a Priest for 53 years).

In addition, Priests do not confess to their Bishops, but to other Priests, under normal circumstances. This is because priests and bishops hearing confessions cannot use what they hear in Confession for anything else, ever. Since Bishops are administrative authorities over Priests this would put a Bishop in an untenable position regarding the sanctity of hearing a confession from a priest. He cannot be reasonably expected to segregate what he hears in confession from his administrative decisions over the Priest.

I recognize this is entirely antithetical to how Mormons understand authority should work.
Mormoniam sees a serious sinner as a potential disease to the body of the congregation, so it needs extrusion (excommunication). In catholicism sin is the part of the human condition most needing healing, and it cannot heal if cut-off from the Body of Christ.

First of all, PeterJohn, I am a practicing Catholic, not a Mormon.

Secondly, I never made any allusion to the sacrament of reconciliation. I was writing about the decision to take the eucharist or not, depending upon my own percieved worthiness to do so, in contrast to the Mormon practice of the bishop summoning a member to his office to “interview” that member about his worthiness.

In Mormonism, if there is a serious sin the bishop discusses it with his counselors (and sometimes with stake authorities) before administering church discipline (sometimes in a “court of love”). I know this because I was counselor to two bishops when I was LDS. There is no such thing as “sanctity of the confessional” in Mormonism. I know for a fact that the bishop to whom I was 2nd counselor often discussed the sins of members with his wife. She then proceeded to gossip about it to other women, etc., etc. Nothing was ever done to stop this travesty, even though it was known throughout the stake.

Paul
(a former Mormon, now happily Catholic)

 

[Stephen168]

• a good catholic will have confessed all their sins to “some authority” in his local church.
• the same “authority” that would serve him communion every Sunday

While a Catholic can see any priest for confession, he typically will see his local parish priest

Your are learning. A Catholic can go to any Priest they choose. Can a Mormon go to any Bishop they choose?

The LDS can lie in their temple recommend interview just like a Catholic can choose not to confess serious sins to their priest.in the confessional

A Catholic would never knowingly not confession a serious sin because it makes the process pointless. A catholic is trying to get into heaven, while a Mormon is trying to get into a building.

• If both are honest, they will receive guidance from their local church authority.

Guidance is not part of the Sacrament of Reconciliation, but it can be. I have never had a Priest offer guidance in 47 years.

• both the LDS and RCC can ignore that advice and partake of communion, in their church/ward or by attending another church/ward meeting

Advice does not apply to a Catholic confession. We give a complete confession and we go to communion. We decide. Are you suggesting a Mormon can lie to their Bishop, ignore his advice, and walk into a Temple?

The Mormon Church is doing a very poor job of teaching you about Catholicism.

 

[Peter_John]

Your are learning. A Catholic can go to any Priest they choose. Can a Mormon go to any Bishop they choose?

A Catholic would never knowingly not confession a serious sin because it makes the process pointless. A catholic is trying to get into heaven, while a Mormon is trying to get into a building.

Guidance is not part of the Sacrament of Reconciliation, but it can be. I have never had a Priest offer guidance in 47 years.

Advice does not apply to a Catholic confession. We give a complete confession and we go to communion. We decide. Are you suggesting a Mormon can lie to their Bishop, ignore his advice, and walk into a Temple?

The Mormon Church is doing a very poor job of teaching you about Catholicism.

I have had one Priest offer advice, but I was also seeking advice as well as confessing. Some of my penances have indirectly constituted advice. For example, I was once given the oenance of reading one of the books of Thessalonians, and what it included about the role of members in sustaining Church unity was pertinent to my sins.

The essential difference in this is the role of clergy in Mormonism and catholicism. Our priests are not our judeges, and confession in Catholicism is not a police action: In Mormonism one only confesses sins serious enough that they could cost a temple recommend or result in excommunication. In Catholicism we confess whatever weighs on our conscience enough to interfere with our communion with Deity, even if the worst thing we’ve done is cuss.

 

[Peter_John]

First of all, PeterJohn, I am a practicing Catholic, not a Mormon.

Secondly, I never made any allusion to the sacrament of reconciliation. I was writing about the decision to take the eucharist or not, depending upon my own percieved worthiness to do so, in contrast to the Mormon practice of the bishop summoning a member to his office to “interview” that member about his worthiness.

In Mormonism, if there is a serious sin the bishop discusses it with his counselors (and sometimes with stake authorities) before administering church discipline (sometimes in a “court of love”). I know this because I was counselor to two bishops when I was LDS. There is no such thing as “sanctity of the confessional” in Mormonism. I know for a fact that the bishop to whom I was 2nd counselor often discussed the sins of members with his wife. She then proceeded to gossip about it to other women, etc., etc. Nothing was ever done to stop this travesty, even though it was known throughout the stake.

Paul
(a former Mormon, now happily Catholic)

I apologize. I must have clicked on the wrong link. I was responding to what Tony888 had said and I must have clicked on a post of yours that quoted it instead of on his original post. If you read my opther posts yopu will find I am very familar with the LDS confession porocess. I expect that what you talk about with regarding that bishop and his wife goes on more than is often recognized. The thing that really hit me after i converted to Catholicism and saw the difference in process was how for endowed elders it can mean confessing to dozens of people all of whome might end up being just regular members when they reorganize the stake high councils.

You describe another good reason for Priests not to be married. I know that I could never refrain from discussing something weighing on my mind with my wife. Perhaps this is what Paul was talking about when he wrote that women should stay quiet in Church.

 

[Peter_John]

Thought I already responded to this. Your remark reflects a misunderstanding of Reconciliation I also had as a Mormon because of the hierarchical authoritarian organization of Mormonism, similar to the military. In fact, I was taught in Aaronic Priesthood classes that it is modelled on the military organization of Israel following the Exodus, with Moses at the top and subordinate leaders below so that Moses did not have to deal with all the little problems.

Catholicism allows much more local autonomy than this, and Reconciliation is a good example. My Priest is not a judge over me the same way that LDS leaders are judges over their local congregations. I can confess to any Priest, active or retired, any place I go. I regularly make confession to a retired priest who lives in my parish, and get frequent adice and counsel from him (it is such a blessing to be able to sit down and just chat a couple of hours eevery couple of weeks with someone who has cultivated his relationship to Christ as a Priest for 53 years).

In addition, Priests do not confess to their Bishops, but to other Priests, under normal circumstances. This is because priests and bishops hearing confessions cannot use what they hear in Confession for anything else, ever. Since Bishops are administrative authorities over Priests this would put a Bishop in an untenable position regarding the sanctity of hearing a confession from a priest. He cannot be reasonably expected to segregate what he hears in confession from his administrative decisions over the Priest.

I recognize this is entirely antithetical to how Mormons understand authority should work.
Mormoniam sees a serious sinner as a potential disease to the body of the congregation, so it needs extrusion (excommunication). In catholicism sin is the part of the human condition most needing healing, and it cannot heal if cut-off from the Body of Christ.

@Tony888 I was actually responding to something you wrote in the above remarks, and accidentally clicked on the wrong link.

 

[SteveVH]

• If both are honest, they will receive guidance from their local church authority

Catholics do not go to confession to receive guidance. They go to receive forgiveness and to be reconciled once again to God. I have received guidance, but only because I asked. That is not part of the sacrament, but can be very helpful when trying to avoid sin.

 

[SteveVH]

I have to add that while it is not an interrogation, Priests sometimes know what someone is going to confess already – even very private sins. Padre Pio is probably the best example of this. One woman recounted that upon hearing her confession he asked , “Is that all?” when she said she thought so, he had her climb the peak near San Giovanni Rotundo and pray some decades of the Rosary.

That happened three times and she could still think of nothing else. Then Padre Pio said, “He could have been a priest, a bishop, the pope!” Then the woman said (this was a long time ago) she did not know abortion was a sin. Padre Pio said, “It is killing!”

Just thought I would share that story.

Yeah, I love that story about Padre Pio. We actually have a local priest (about an hour away) who reads hearts as well. He made quite the impression at our last Confirmation retreat. We had a lot of teens with tears in their eyes who each testified that he knew sins they did not, at first, want to confess or had forgotten. They were so thankful that he had brought these sins to their attention and were now free of them. What a transformation!

 

[Tony888]

Your are learning. A Catholic can go to any Priest they choose. Can a Mormon go to any Bishop they choose?

Why does it matter that a Catholic can run off to another parish for confession? Shouldn’t his parish priest be adequate to his needs?

A Catholic would never knowingly not confession a serious sin because it makes the process pointless. A catholic is trying to get into heaven, while a Mormon is trying to get into a building.

Neither would an LDS knowingly not confession a serious sin because it makes the process pointless.

Guidance is not part of the Sacrament of Reconciliation, but it can be. I have never had a Priest offer guidance in 47 years.

If you are struggling with sin, why wouldn’t guidance be part of the process? I agree it is not relevant in most cases though.

Advice does not apply to a Catholic confession. We give a complete confession and we go to communion. We decide. Are you suggesting a Mormon can lie to their Bishop, ignore his advice, and walk into a Temple?

I was comparing apples to apples, what both an RCC and LDS could do around communion. You are comparing apples and oranges - of course they are different…

The Mormon Church is doing a very poor job of teaching you about Catholicism.

Sorry, but the LDS doesn’t educate people on the RCC church. My trianing came from 40+ years as a member.

 

[Tony888]

Catholics do not go to confession to receive guidance. They go to receive forgiveness and to be reconciled once again to God. I have received guidance, but only because I asked. That is not part of the sacrament, but can be very helpful when trying to avoid sin.

Your description fits with the LDS process of confessing our sins and asking for forgiveness every sunday, before receiving comunion.

An LDS might seek guidance from a Bishop for a difficult problem. In the same way an RCC might also seeks guidance from a Priest for a particular problem. Maybe this is usually done during confession, or the parishoner askes for a special meeting (no experience here)
Since LDS do not confess our sins to the priest before comunion, we don’t have that regular, weekly check-in with our local church authority.

What is wrong with providing that periodic check-in opportunity with a Bishop? The LDS are much less demanding than with RCC, where it is expect to occur weekly, before comunion

 

[SteveVH]

Your description fits with the LDS process of confessing our sins and asking for forgiveness every sunday, before receiving comunion.

An LDS might seek guidance from a Bishop for a difficult problem. In the same way an RCC might also seeks guidance from a Priest for a particular problem. Maybe this is usually done during confession, or the parishoner askes for a special meeting (no experience here)
Since LDS do not confess our sins to the priest before comunion, we don’t have that regular, weekly check-in with our local church authority.

What is wrong with providing that periodic check-in opportunity with a Bishop? The LDS are much less demanding than with RCC, where it is expect to occur weekly, before comunion

Well, you are somewhat inaccurate here. We are not “expected” to confess weekly. We are advised to confess “regularly” and once a month is the typical suggestion but we are only required to confess once a year. It all depends upon the state of one’s soul. Other than that we are only required to confess if we find ourselves in mortal (very serious) sin.

In any event, we also make a public confession every week during Mass. In fact it is one of the first things we do. “I confess to Almighty God, and to you, my brothers and sisters, that I have sinned through my own fault, in what I have done and in what I have failed to do…”.

As far as receiving advice, that is usually done by making a special appointment with the priest. I happen to be very good friends with my priest and so he gives me advice on a fairly regular basis even when we are just having lunch or coffee together.

I suppose if I were a Mormon in need of advice I would probably opt for the bishop as well, as your priests are not really in the position of giving advice to anyone. I say this because of their age. They are most likely concerned about whether the girl in history class likes them or not or what they are going to do about the big zit in the middle of the forehead with the weekend approaching. I don’t mean this as a slam, just a reality. I can’t imagine asking a teenager for advice on anything meaningful in my life. I give them advice. Catholic priests cannot be equated in any way to Mormon “priests”. Catholic priests are mature and very educated and trained by the time they step in as a pastor of a particular parish and so they can be trusted, for the most part to give sound advice.

 

[Stephen168]

A temple recommend can be revoked at any time during the year. If you commit an offence rendering you not temple worhty, seek reconciliation and tell your appropriate LDS authority, you lose your recommend. If you get caught doing something , you lose your recommend. If in titihing settlement you do not pay a full titihe, I do not know itf that voids a recommend immediately.

Peter, getting a temple recommend relies on the integrity of the person - I review my condition and respond to the questions.

In a similar fashion, aren’t ther certain conditions where a Catholic should not partake of communion until they are again worthy?

Yes, but it is something the Catholic person imposes upon himself; it is not imposed on him from some “authority”. There is no such thing as a “communion recommend”. It is totally up to my own conscience - between me and God and no one else.

Paul, Your comment makes me think of stones and glass houses

• a good catholic will have confessed all their sins to “some authority” in his local church.
• the same “authority” that would serve him communion every Sunday

Now, an LDS person must also choose to confess his sins and answer his temple recommend questions. The level of intengrity is up to their own conscience, just like the RCC that may choose not to confess his/her real sins to the priest.

• The LDS can lie in their temple recommend interview just like a Catholic can choose not to confess serious sins to their priest.in the confessional
• both the LDS and RCC can ignore that advice and partake of communion, in their church/ward or by attending another church/ward meeting

Advice does not apply to a Catholic confession. We give a complete confession and we go to communion. We decide. Are you suggesting a Mormon can lie to their Bishop, ignore his advice, and walk into a Temple?

I was comparing apples to apples, what both an RCC and LDS could do around communion. You are comparing apples and oranges - of course they are different…

No we were comparing Catholic confession/communion with Mormon confession/temple recommend. And you didn’t answer the question: Can you confess your sins, ignore your Bishop, and walk into a temple?

 

[Stephen168]

Why does it matter that a Catholic can run off to another parish for confession?

We are comparing Catholic confession/communion with Mormon confession/temple recommend. You said they were the same:

• a good catholic will have confessed all their sins to “some authority” in his local church.
  the same “authority” that would serve him communion every Sunday

You were wrong about Catholics having to confession to their own parish priest, so I asked you about Mormons. You didn’t answer the question.

 

[Stephen168]

Now, an LDS person must also choose to confess his sins and answer his temple recommend questions. The level of integrity is up to their own conscience,

• The LDS can lie in their temple recommend interview

A Catholic would never knowingly not confession a serious sin because it makes the process pointless. A catholic is trying to get into heaven, while a Mormon is trying to get into a building.

Neither would an LDS knowingly not confession a serious sin because it makes the process pointless.

You already said a Mormon would lie just to get into the temple. Then you try to parrot me. I’ll believe you, but not the parrot.

 

[zaffiroborant]

Your description fits with the LDS process of confessing our sins and asking for forgiveness every sunday, before receiving comunion.

An LDS might seek guidance from a Bishop for a difficult problem. In the same way an RCC might also seeks guidance from a Priest for a particular problem. Maybe this is usually done during confession, or the parishoner askes for a special meeting (no experience here)
Since LDS do not confess our sins to the priest before comunion, we don’t have that regular, weekly check-in with our local church authority.

What is wrong with providing that periodic check-in opportunity with a Bishop? The LDS are much less demanding than with RCC, where it is expect to occur weekly, before comunion

Apparently your “no experience here” covers most of your vaunted “40 years as a member”.

 

[Peter_John]

Your description fits with the LDS process of confessing our sins and asking for forgiveness every sunday, before receiving comunion.

An LDS might seek guidance from a Bishop for a difficult problem. In the same way an RCC might also seeks guidance from a Priest for a particular problem. Maybe this is usually done during confession, or the parishoner askes for a special meeting (no experience here)
Since LDS do not confess our sins to the priest before comunion, we don’t have that regular, weekly check-in with our local church authority.

What is wrong with providing that periodic check-in opportunity with a Bishop? The LDS are much less demanding than with RCC, where it is expect to occur weekly, before comunion

Actually, I think the requirement is once a year, but more frequent confessions are encouraged.I have actually found that the better my general behavior the more often I feel the need for confession over ever less serious things, and every two weeks works about right for me right now.

 

[Peter_John]

Why does it matter that a Catholic can run off to another parish for confession? Shouldn’t his parish priest be adequate to his needs?

Neither would an LDS knowingly not confession a serious sin because it makes the process pointless.

If you are struggling with sin, why wouldn’t guidance be part of the process? I agree it is not relevant in most cases though.

I was comparing apples to apples, what both an RCC and LDS could do around communion. You are comparing apples and oranges - of course they are different…

Sorry, but the LDS doesn’t educate people on the RCC church. My trianing came from 40+ years as a member.

It is not about going to another parish. It is about the difference in the relationship of the role of confession. In Mormonism it involves the Bishop’s responsibility as a judge over his Ward, his authority over the people. The confession in Mormonism is a police action, essentially. Priests do not have that kind of authority over their parishes because they do not sit as judges. They have authority over the Eucharistic integrity, and that is what they do for their members. Everything focuses on the Eucharist.

Even some general conference addresses have accounts of people who lied on temple recommends, or went to the temple after doing something that would have violated the temple recommend.

 

[Peter_John]

Your description fits with the LDS process of confessing our sins and asking for forgiveness every sunday, before receiving comunion.

When did that start, since I have never seen any practice of public confession associated with the LDS Sacrament, unless this is a new practice, I must assume you mean reflecting on what sins Jesus has suffered for to yourself before partaking – a personal internal confession to God. If you can do that, why do serious sins need confession to a Bishop? Does God only have the ears to hear or the power to forgive lesser sins, without help from man?