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Xavierlives
Guest
This has probably been brought up numerous times but I am curious how Catholics view LDS and how LDS views Catholicism.
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TraceG
Guest
Sheesh either I wish I knew the answer or I could have asked 2 mormon missionary girls that stopped by my apt today.
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Kdesiel
Guest
Hmmmm good question. All I can do is give you my point of view.
I was born and raised Mormon, served a full time mission to South Africa, married in the Temple. My Seven sisters and my Two Brothers are Mormon, my Mother is Mormon, and my Father no longer is. All of my sisters Husbands converted to the LDS faith.
As a Mormon Missionary I viewed Catholics as people who didn’t have a full understanding of the Gospel. I saw the Catholic Church as the Church of Christ in apostasy, mostly because this is what was taught to me from a young age. I should note that ALL other Churches were in a state of apostasy not just the Catholic Church. Growing up my Mother was a big fan of Bruce R. McKonckie (sp?) and in his 1st edition of Mormon Doctrine he stated the Catholic Church was the Church of the devil, so even though I had held that all other religions were apostate the Catholic Church throughout a lot of Mormon communities gets special attention due to the early teachings that it is the Church of the Devil. I held a certain arrogant view that people outside the LDS church were not very well versed in scripture and didn’t fully understand what God had in store for them. I was taught through obedience of the Gospel and partaking in “life saving” ordinances I was to one day enter the Celestial Kingdom or highest degree of Glory to live with Both God and Jesus Christ. Through time and Progression I would one day become a God and have my own creations to exercise dominion over. I was taught that God was once a man like me, that like me he lived on a world somewhere and through time and intellectual progression he became God like his God before him. Later I learned that there are many Gods and many creations, but I should focus my heart and mind on the God of this world and his Son Jesus Christ. I was taught that J.Smith was not only a Prophet but the head of this dispensation. That save Christ himself J.Smith has done more for the Salvation of Mankind than anyone else. Through J.Smith the Gospel was restored, and the precious and simple parts of the Gospel have returned to the earth through his works, translating the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine and Covenants, and Pearl of Great Price.
I view Catholics with a certain degree of pity because they did not have the fullness of the “Everlasting Gospel”.
I went on a Mission to South Africa, I studied the Bible, I fell in Love with the Old Testament, and the New Testament. While on my mission through study with the Bible and the Book of Mormon I began to see some disturbing evidence that suggested the Book of Mormon was not what I had initially believed it to be. I did research on the early Church Leaders and the way they lived their lives, and what doctrines they taught as “Divine Truth” from the Pulpit. Needless to say it wasn’t long after my Mission I left the Mormon Church.
I see the Mormon Church as the Church established by a man for his own selfish reasons. I see the teachings, some if not most are good, but then I see the other things snuck in with the good teachings, Plural Marriage, Blood Atonement, as I studied more and more of the Bible the concept of God and the plurality of Gods the more I realized this was a religion developed through the mind of J.Smith and not something divine.
I found truth in the Catholic Church. Now I look at Mormons a group being led astray and in many cases not facing the reality of their beliefs due to fear, fear of reprisals from their families and the Mormon communities in which they live. I find they are for the most part unwilling to look at the inconsistancies of what is being taught to them, and they are more than willing to blindly follow the Word of a Church leader as opposed to their own study and intellect. Harsh sounding I know, but the truth is harsh sometimes.
I respect my Family in their beliefs, I respect the beliefs of my LDS friends, but I pray one day they’ll see the LDS chruch for what it trully is.
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1ke
Guest
The Catholic Church considers the LDS church to be a non-Christian group based on their denial of the Trinity and other beliefs incompatible with Christianity. This, of course, is not the LDS view of themselves, but you asked what the Catholic position is.
Therefore, any dialog with them falls under the Church’s efforts in the area of inter-religious dialog, not ecumenism.
Therefore, any dialog with them falls under the Church’s efforts in the area of inter-religious dialog, not ecumenism.
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ParkerD
Guest
Besides baptism of infants which clearly is not the baptism of belief taught in the New Testament, I see the following inconsistencies (among others) in Catholicism versus Biblical truths:
- Bishops were married in the New Testament church. (Yes, I know–so were deacons, but they were adults with a different function than LDS deacons.)
- There were no prayers related to “saints”, and no images of such.
- There was no special designation about Mary, the mother of Christ, in the New Testament. Christ and the Father were the single focus of worship, devotion, prayers, etc.
- Stephen saw Christ on the right hand of the Father, which means he also saw the Father. The Father was a visible Person
- The word “tradition” had strong negative connotations as used by Christ, and for good reason. Jewish tradition about circumcision seems to have led to infant baptism.
- Money was not involved in any ordinances or covenant-making or whatever a priesthood leader needed to do involving the members coming to them, other than for assisting the poor for which the money or items were given specifically for that single purpose.
- Peter taught that Christ visited spirit prison, and the spirits there were taught the gospel. This does not seem regarded as important in Catholicism.
- There was no New Testament teaching that righteous people go to any such place or description as “Purgatory” before being qualified to go to “heaven.”
- The Old Testament writings (that is, the writings that became compiled as that) were regarded as having prophecies yet to be fulfilled and very important, in the New Testament teachings of the apostles and of Christ.
- There were living prophets during the New Testament times, including after Christ had ascended. Catholicism abandons this view, which makes sense since so much emphasis is placed on the early fathers and tradition rather than on the need for revelation to a living prophet.
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ricko
Guest
As you can see from the previous post by a Mormon, they misrepresent or do not understand the teachings of the Catholic Church and most of Christianity.
The Mormons claim to be Christians but believe in multiple gods. They accept current or new revelations as trumping teachings in the bible. They are close knit and use fear as a tool to keep everyone in line. They may seem to be and are nice people but very much misled by the teachings of a man (Joseph Smith).
The Mormons claim to be Christians but believe in multiple gods. They accept current or new revelations as trumping teachings in the bible. They are close knit and use fear as a tool to keep everyone in line. They may seem to be and are nice people but very much misled by the teachings of a man (Joseph Smith).
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mjf001
Guest
I don’t want to derail the thread, I just feel I need to make a quick comment. As a Catholic, I find your repeated harping on your dislike of infant baptism offensive, please stop.
Thank you,
Michael
Stephen168
New member
It would depend on what you mean by ‘Catholics.’ The Catholic Church does not recognize a Mormon baptism, so it would seem they are not Christians. This means no more or less than saying Muslims are not Christian; just a statement of fact. How an individual Catholic views Mormons could be all over the map. I’ve never been Mormon but from the few Mormons who post here regularly, I would say they are very hateful toward the Catholic Church.
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TheosisM
Guest
Here are a number of contrasts:
-Mormons believe in eternal marriage, and that it is necessary for exaltation. Catholics do not.
-Mormons believe that the Father is married to the Heavenly Mother. Catholics do not.
-Mormons believe that the Father has a body of flesh and bones. Catholics believe that God can take on any form to reveal Himself to humans (theophany), however the Father does not have a body of flesh and bones in the same way that Jesus Christ does (through His bodily resurrection and ascension).
-Mormons believe that the Father perhaps lived on an earth at some point in the past. Catholics do not.
-Mormons do not pray to Jesus Christ. Catholics do.
-Catholics believe that we can ask all saints, whether on earth or in Heaven, for their prayers (communion of saints). Mormons only ask earthly people for prayers.
-Catholics believe in the Real Presence. Mormons do not.
-Catholics use bread and wine for the Eucharist. Mormons use bread and water.
-Catholics believe that it is certainly possible for bishops and deacons to be married, but it is not a requirement (especially with the inconsistent view of Mormons on bishops being married but not deacons, but now I’m reading that the deacons of the Bible had a different function than the deacons in Mormonism, so it’s okay), and it is currently not the discipline to ordain married priests to the episcopate. Mormons ordain 12 year old boys to the diaconate.
-the Catholic Church is against abortion in every situation. Mormonism allows abortion in certain specific circumstances (and after personal revelation from God).
–Mormons believe that Christ’s Church apostasized and authority was taken from the earth until the 1800s. Catholics believe that Christ’s Church has always been on earth with priesthood authority.
-Catholics believe that the gift of prophecy continues (many canonized saints were also prophets and prophetesses, and Catholic history is replete with people being visited by God, angels, and Heavenly saints), however a prophet is not at the head of the Church. Mormonism has a prophet as its earthly head. The LDS Church has 15 apostles who are also “prophets, seers, and revelators”.
-Mormons believe in a pre-mortal existence. Catholics do not.
-Mormons believe that we all have an eternal intelligence, and that we are all literal spirit children of the Father (and Heavenly Mother), including Jesus Christ. Mormons also believe that we can become gods, have eternal increase (spirit children, being eternal parents), and have worlds as well. These spirit children will have the same relationship to them as we do to the Father (i.e. worship). Traditional theosis includes none of this.
-Mormons believe in a three tiered Heaven, where the Father only dwells in the highest level, people in the second level are ministered to by Jesus, and those in the third are ministered to by the Spirit. Catholics believe there is only one Heaven, with various mansions, however all are in the presence of the Father, Son, and Spirit, as we see in the Bible.
-Mormons use the KJV as the authoritative English translation of the Bible. Catholics do not use this incomplete Bible.
-Mormons believe that you can be baptized, confirmed, ordained, sealed (eternally married), and “endowed” by proxy, after you die. Catholics do not.
-the Mormon priesthood was once institutionally restricted from those of African descent, and that because of their lineage, they could not be ordained [yet]. It took a revelation in 1978 for it to be opened to blacks. The Catholic priesthood has never had an institutional restriction of the priesthood to certain races and that other races were not able to be ordained because of their racial background.
-Mormons believe that the atonement primarily occurred in Gethsemane, and some will say that it was completed on the cross. Catholics believe that the atonement occurred on the cross only.
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TheosisM
Guest
As you can see from the previous post by a Mormon, they misrepresent or do not understand the teachings of the Catholic Church and most of Christianity.
Agreed. You’d think that, 1000+ posts later, he’d at least know something about Catholicism. It’s a little amusing.
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Chris-WA
Guest
There is no reason to believe, based on the New Testament, that infants were not baptized. The New Testament does not mention it one way or the other. It is not explicity shown, nor is it explicitly stated that one must reach any certain age before baptism. What we have to go on is the fact that the New Testament does say that whole households were baptized, so how one comes to think that this would exclude infants I do not know.
Remember, the ones that were married (which was not all) could only be married to one wife. The New Testament explicity excludes polygamy. St. Paul makes the argument that it is better for some to not marry so they can be completely devoted to the things of God. In the Mormon paradigm, marriage is required for exaltation. This is highly inconsistent with the bible. I don’t think you should throw stones in this area when the LDS Church is far more inconsistent with the bible.
Actually, Church history bears out the fact that Saints were revered from very early on. I wouldn’t expect to necessarily see this explicitly mentioned in the New Testament, but the history is there to study.
St. Luke gives a very special designation to Mary, something no other woman in scripture receives when he calls her “full of grace.” Also Elizabeth calls her the “Mother of my Lord” before Jesus is born. The Hail Mary prayer comes straight out of scripture my friend. St. Paul describes Mary as the new Eve. So I would say that the New Testament elevates Mary to a very special place indeed.
How God presents Himself to man is His own perogative. In the Old Testament God appeared as a burning bush, as a glory cloud above the Ark of the Covenant, etc. Picking out one verse from the bible to demonstrate God is a glorified man is a mistake.
Actually no. Notice that Jesus criticizes the traditions of men, not tradition in and of itself. The Catholic Church has traditions and Traditions (Tradition with a capital T denotes sacred tradition passed on by word of mouth, which the New Testament enourages us to hold fast to). And every church has tradition–even the Mormon church.
Circumcision was not merely *Jewish tradition. *It was the Law of Moses and required by God. It only seems fitting that the sacrament of initiation in the Old Testament have a better, more fulfilling sacrament of intitiation into the family of God in the New Testament.
Not sure what you’re getting at here.
Not sure what you’re getting at here either. The Catholic Church does believe that prior to Christ’s resurrection, the Old Testament people had to wait in some other place than Heaven.
Some of that comes from the deuterocanical books, which you as a Mormon do not accept as scripture. I don’t know why the LDS reject them given the fact that the Septuigent was what was used by the early Christians, which included those books. It’s only 1500 years later that Martin Luther, with no claim of revelation nor authority as a prophet by your own definition, decides to remove those books.
We believe that as well. We just believe that many of those prophecies were fulfilled by Christ and will continue to be fulfilled until the end of time.
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God chooses prophets when and where He needs them. The LDS are locked into the erroneous idea that a prophet always leads the church. This is not even so in the biblical record. Prophets were sent when they were needed for specific purposes. Peter is not called the prophet. Neither are any of the other Apostles. If the LDS were actually staying consistent with the biblical record with regards to prophets, I would expect to see a prophet here and there in the history of the church but not necessarily one always at the helm as is done today within Mormonism. It was so at some times but not all the time and certainly not in the New Testament.
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RebeccaJ
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Tradition is the Church’s memory. It is making what the ages of Christianity have experienced, been taught, what is understood, present to us today. Everything we ‘do’ reflects this memory. From memorials of saints to our Liturgies. Of course, this is ultimately realized in Jesus Christ, made Present to us in the Eucharist.
Mormonism does not retain a memory. Rather, it is encouraged to forget what was taught by their own previous so-called prophets and only remember what was heard recently. Without a memory, Mormonism manufactures what they do not have. Borrowing from places, such as Christianity and Freemasonry.
Mormonism also seeks to take the memory of the Church and make out of it a false memory. There are at least two approaches. One, to deny doctrines and dogmas that are found in Tradition, our memory, as false. Two, to take parts of Tradition, such as Holy Scripture, ECF writings, or the Sacraments, and twist them to a purpose that was never intended. Never taught. Making a parody of truth, at best, a mockery at the worst.
Mormonism does not retain a memory. Rather, it is encouraged to forget what was taught by their own previous so-called prophets and only remember what was heard recently. Without a memory, Mormonism manufactures what they do not have. Borrowing from places, such as Christianity and Freemasonry.
Mormonism also seeks to take the memory of the Church and make out of it a false memory. There are at least two approaches. One, to deny doctrines and dogmas that are found in Tradition, our memory, as false. Two, to take parts of Tradition, such as Holy Scripture, ECF writings, or the Sacraments, and twist them to a purpose that was never intended. Never taught. Making a parody of truth, at best, a mockery at the worst.
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why_me
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There is much to compare in a positive way:
Both churches claim truth.
Both churches teach modest dress.
Both churches teach chasity before marriage.
Both churches believe in the importance of the family.
Both churches believe that the human body is a temple for the holy ghost/spirit to dwell in.
Both churches believe in obedience to the word of god.
Both churches stress love of enemy and love of neighbor.
Both churches, if members live the teachings correctly, bring a human being to holiness or righteousness.
The list can go on and on…In the secular world, mormons and catholics are working together to create a more godlike society and are battling the effects of moral relativism. Together we are strong…united we stand…
Both churches claim truth.
Both churches teach modest dress.
Both churches teach chasity before marriage.
Both churches believe in the importance of the family.
Both churches believe that the human body is a temple for the holy ghost/spirit to dwell in.
Both churches believe in obedience to the word of god.
Both churches stress love of enemy and love of neighbor.
Both churches, if members live the teachings correctly, bring a human being to holiness or righteousness.
The list can go on and on…In the secular world, mormons and catholics are working together to create a more godlike society and are battling the effects of moral relativism. Together we are strong…united we stand…
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why_me
Guest
I see no fear. But like most faiths, families like it when all are the same faith. Catholics are no different. Many catholic families do not want their children to join another faith and they can make it difficult for them to do so. But other families are more open and care less when such change occurs. But fear is the wrong word. The mormon church does not teach shunning family. Now if some families do this they are not living the gospel. In fact, if someone in the family leaves the lds church, it is encouraged to show love and not hate.
I think that many catholics also follow the pope’s words without critically thinking about what is being taught. Most people are like this. How many people have the time to study what their church leaders say? Or even think about them?
Catholics and mormons have much in common. Both have leaders (pope and prophet) and are structured from the top down.
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ralphinal
Guest
To sum it up in as short a way as I can, Catholics see the LDS faith as being made up of people who mean well and try to do the best that they can, but they do not have the Fullness of Truth here on Earth, and in some cases, are quite wrong.
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thecourt
Guest
Recognize there are differences between both churches and all who are members of both churches should respect each other despite the differences with doctrine.
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Anna_Scott
Guest
LDS Beliefs:
Joseph Smith taught that Adam is "MICHAEL, the Archangel, and the ANCIENT OF DAYS.
Brigham Young taught that Adam helped to make and organize this world; Adam is MICHAEL, the Archangel, the ANCIENT OF DAYS! about whom holy men have written and spoken–“HE is our FATHER and our GOD, and the only God with whom WE have to do. . . .” = Adam is god. Young claimed he leaned this from speaking with Joseph Smith.
God was not from all eternity.
God is an exalted man.
God has a wife and lives on (or near) a star called Kolob.
Men can become gods (exaltation).
The Jesus of Mormonism is not the Jesus of Christianity.
The Messiah was a polygamist.
God the Father and the Mother of Jesus, according to the flesh, were associated together in the capacity of Husband and Wife.
The Virgin Mary must have been, for the time being, the lawful wife of god the father, and god gave her to Joseph to be his wife while in the mortal state.
Adam is the man who stands at the gate and holds the keys of everlasting life and salvation.
Baptism and marriage by proxy for the deceased.
The Apostle John never died and still walks the earth today.
I am a Protestant Christian, and I do not believe any of these things. I have never heard anything to indicate that Catholics believe these things either. Could Catholic Forum Members comment?
Anna
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twopekinguys
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Anna_Scott
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Hey twopekinguys,
I keep running into you. I didn’t think Catholics believed any of those things.
You’ve (or I should say you “two”) been making some interesting points on the forums.
Anna
I keep running into you. I didn’t think Catholics believed any of those things.
You’ve (or I should say you “two”) been making some interesting points on the forums.
Anna
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Xavierlives
Guest
Well thank you for all of the responses. I was not trying to pit one against the other in asking the question.
I guess the main reason for asking was I heard the most random statement from a Mormon missionary that stated the Chain of Papacy (if that is the correct term) was broken and that is where the Catholic Church no longer was the “First Church.” The young man also stated something so ridiculous I am not sure I care to repeat it.
If anyone (of the LDS faith) cares to elaborate on this. I guess if clarification is needed, I can make it.
I guess the main reason for asking was I heard the most random statement from a Mormon missionary that stated the Chain of Papacy (if that is the correct term) was broken and that is where the Catholic Church no longer was the “First Church.” The young man also stated something so ridiculous I am not sure I care to repeat it.
If anyone (of the LDS faith) cares to elaborate on this. I guess if clarification is needed, I can make it.
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