LDS & Catholic Comparison

[zerinus]

Well thank you for all of the responses. I was not trying to pit one against the other in asking the question.

I guess the main reason for asking was I heard the most random statement from a Mormon missionary that stated the Chain of Papacy (if that is the correct term) was broken and that is where the Catholic Church no longer was the “First Church.”

I believe that the Catholic Church is a great and noble institution, a beautiful organization, and has a more legitimate right to claim to be the successor to the original Christian Church than any of the Protestant churches that have broken away from it. We do, however, believe that the early church went into apostasy in the early centuries, and lost the priesthood authority that it possessed; therefore neither the Pope nor any other person in the Catholic Church (or any other church) has that authority today. That priesthood authority has now been restored in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, hence it is the only Church in the world that has that authority today.

The young man also stated something so ridiculous I am not sure I care to repeat it.

If anyone (of the LDS faith) cares to elaborate on this. I guess if clarification is needed, I can make it.

I have no idea what you are referring to here; you need to explain.

 

[Holly3278]

As you can see from the previous post by a Mormon, they misrepresent or do not understand the teachings of the Catholic Church and most of Christianity.

The Mormons claim to be Christians but believe in multiple gods. They accept current or new revelations as trumping teachings in the bible. They are close knit and use fear as a tool to keep everyone in line. They may seem to be and are nice people but very much misled by the teachings of a man (Joseph Smith).

Yep and that man, Joseph Smith, was a fraud who continues to cause people to believe heresies to this very day. Learn more about Joseph Smith at the following website:

mormoninfo.org/ But be warned. This is an evangelical website and therefore may not portray all correct teachings.

 

[Chris-WA]

Another contrast between Mormonism and Catholicism worth pointing out is the way they look at salvation history (the biblical record of God’s dealings with man). The Mormons see salvation history as a series of failed dispensations in which the church is established by various prophets over and over again, each time failing due to the unworthiness of the people. In each dispensation authority is lost and has to be re-introduced by God by the calling of a new prophet. They look at Jesus’ time on earth as the “meridian of time” and the present as the “fullness of times.”

Catholics, on the other hand, see salvation history as one continuous story in which God constantly expands His covenant family while preparing the world for the coming of Jesus Christ and the establishment of His never ending kingdom, which we know as the Catholic (universal) Church. First God started out with a marital covenant between Adam and Eve, then a household covenant with Noah and his family, then a tribal covenant with Abraham and his clan, then a national covenant with Moses and all the tribes of the Israel creating the nation of Israel, then a national kingdom covenant with David elevating Israel above its younger brother nations to the status of a kingdom. And finally God fulfills and surpasses all the previous covenants with the New Covenant, mediated by Jesus which established His world-wide kingdom to eventually include all the nations of the earth. This kingdom is the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church, which has brought the gospel to the world and expanded the family of God to all nations. Jesus is the King, and the Pope is the prime mininster who acts with Christ’s own authority to manage the affairs of the Church. Catholics view Jesus’s coming as the fulness of time, which we are still in and will be until the second coming.

Another contrast which I find interesting between the two faiths is their view on angels, which can create confusion if one does not know the differences. Mormons believe angels are either resurrected human beings or human spirits in the pre-existence who haven’t had bodies yet. Catholics believe angels to be an entirely separate race of beings than humans who never were nor ever will be humans. They are spritual beings that can appear in different forms as shown in scripture.

 

[PaulDupre]

Besides baptism of infants which clearly is not the baptism of belief taught in the New Testament, I see the following inconsistencies…

Frankly, I have never seen an 8 year-old who had any more real belief than a new-born. They just parrot the beliefs of their parents because they know it is expected of them. So the net result is the same in Mormonism as in Catholicism - the faith of the parents, and their commitment to raise the child in the faith, is what brings the child to baptism.

Paul (an ex-Mormon)

 

[PaulDupre]

Recognize there are differences between both churches and all who are members of both churches should respect each other despite the differences with doctrine.

You’d have more credibility about respect if you didn’t have 50,000 full-time missionaries knocking on doors telling people that our creed is an abomination.

It seems respect is a one-way street for the LDS.

 

[Xavierlives]

I believe that the Catholic Church is a great and noble institution, a beautiful organization, and has a more legitimate right to claim to be the successor to the original Christian Church than any of the Protestant churches that have broken away from it. We do, however, believe that the early church went into apostasy in the early centuries, and lost the priesthood authority that it possessed; therefore neither the Pope nor any other person in the Catholic Church (or any other church) has that authority today. That priesthood authority has now been restored in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, hence it is the only Church in the world that has that authority today.

I have no idea what you are referring to here; you need to explain.

Well he basically said that at one point in time during crisis, the Papal lineage passed to a goat. I’m pretty sure it wasn’t a joke, but I was making some comparisons between what I understood the LDS faith to be and the Catholic Faith and this was one of the things in passing he stated. I didn’t want to pursue it, but it has always stuck in the back of my mind: do LDS believe this really?

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Any religion that baptizes dead folks, believes in spirit babies, that God the Father had flesh and used to be a man, translating metal plates in New York in the 1800’s, sealing ceremonies in secret temples, following a guy who was arrested for peep stone-gazing and fraud, following a guy who claimed to translate mummy scrolls that proved to be false, and following a dude who wrote a book full of anachronisms and boloney, I think that’s a tough sell for a well-catechized Roman Catholic. But I do like their white shirts and bicycles and they’re generally really nice folks! Great tabernacle choir as well. Too bad their polytheists and in a cult that looks almost as weird as the one L Ron Hubbard cooked up!

 

[why_me]

You’d have more credibility about respect if you didn’t have 50,000 full-time missionaries knocking on doors telling people that our creed is an abomination.

It seems respect is a one-way street for the LDS.

Would you care to tell us how catholicism became a world-wide faith? How did catholicism come to south america, central america and africa? And to Europe? Lithuania was one of the last European holdouts against catholicism. They were a pagan society and even today, paganism is seen as a basic part of lithuanian history and culture. Obviously, someone came knocking on people’s doors, sometimes by force. Any comments?

The mormons are only late to the game but force is not part of the picture.

druidry.org/obod/deities/lithuanian_paganism.html

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithuanian_mythology

And here is something interesting:

The Pagan Lithuanian Empire

The last pagan nation in Europe was Lithuania, which held out against Catholic and Orthodox Christianity until 1386 when the Lithuanian ruler, Jogaila, accepted baptism as the price of marriage to the Polish princess Jadwiga. By this marriage Jogaila, called Jagiello by the Poles, became joint king of Lithuania and Poland, the ruler of a multicultural empire which stretched from the Baltic to the Black Sea. Jadwiga, in turn, who is thought to have sacrificed herself for the sake of the Polish people by submitting to this marriage to a man who according to some reports was something of a brute, became a Catholic Saint. The dynasty founded by Jogaila and Jadwiga ruled Poland for centuries.

Starting from the Lithuanian homeland on the Baltic, the Lithuanian empire expanded gradually to the South and East in the aftermath of the Mongol invasions in the 1200’s. The Mongols destroyed, subjugated, or weakened all the East European states but never reached Lithuania. The heirs of the Mongols (the Tatars, a Muslim Turkish people) were preoccupied with their wars with the Mongols in Persia and were relatively uninterested in Eastern Europe, which allowed the Lithuanians to gain control of an enormous area stretching from the Baltic to the Black Sea. **Not merely in warfare, but also in diplomacy and government, the pagan Lithuanians proved fully the equal of the Christian rulers of their day. Their accomplishment is especially impressive when it is considered that all during this period they were under assault from the west by the Teutonic Knights, a crusading Catholic religious order. **
idiocentrism.com/squib.jogaila.htm

Any comments Paul?

 

[why_me]

Any religion that baptizes dead folks, believes in spirit babies, that God the Father had flesh and used to be a man, translating metal plates in New York in the 1800’s, sealing ceremonies in secret temples, following a guy who was arrested for peep stone-gazing and fraud, following a guy who claimed to translate mummy scrolls that proved to be false, and following a dude who wrote a book full of anachronisms and boloney, I think that’s a tough sell for a well-catechized Roman Catholic. But I do like their white shirts and bicycles and they’re generally really nice folks! Great tabernacle choir as well. Too bad their polytheists and in a cult that looks almost as weird as the one L Ron Hubbard cooked up!

Well, it is no stranger than a god who would part the red sea, allow countless Eygtian soldiers to be drowned: who would turn a woman to salt and stone, talk through a bush, cause a flood to destroy human life to make a point, not to mention Jonah who was swallowed by a whale etc.

But your vocabulary in calling mormonism a cult is off the mark. So all those mormons in the choir are members of a cult and they are trapped inside it? And all those good people mormons are good because they belong to a so-called cult?

Most people can mock others of other faiths. Heck, catholicism is no exception. It can also be challenged with loaded vocabulary too. It would be very easy to do so. And you don’t think that catholicism may look weird to some evangelicals when they see statues of saints, the virgin mary, saint joseph in the church? Or when they see an alter where to them the catholic priest performs basic rituals?

I think that weird is the wrong word.

 

[zerinus]

Well he basically said that at one point in time during crisis, the Papal lineage passed to a goat. I’m pretty sure it wasn’t a joke, but I was making some comparisons between what I understood the LDS faith to be and the Catholic Faith and this was one of the things in passing he stated. I didn’t want to pursue it, but it has always stuck in the back of my mind: do LDS believe this really?

I had never heard of that before, and I am sceptical that such an exchange ever took place.

 

[ParkerD]

LDS Beliefs:

Joseph Smith taught that Adam is "MICHAEL, the Archangel, and the ANCIENT OF DAYS.

Brigham Young taught that Adam helped to make and organize this world; Adam is MICHAEL, the Archangel, the ANCIENT OF DAYS! about whom holy men have written and spoken–“HE is our FATHER and our GOD, and the only God with whom WE have to do. . . .”

God was not from all eternity in the way of being outside of the Universe. All people have lived as intelligences and then as spirits during eternity past.

God is an exalted man **who lived on an earth and was perfect when he lived on that earth, just as Jesus was perfect when He lived on this earth.
**
God has a wife and lives near a star He called Kolob and that star governs the revolutions and orders of time for our solar system.

Men can become gods (exaltation).

The Jesus of Mormonism is not the Jesus of Christianity since Mormons do not use the term Trinity and believe Jesus was the FirstBorn in the pre-mortal world.

The Messiah was a polygamist** if He was married to Mary and Mary and Martha. If He wasn’t married at all, then that makes sense since He knew He was going to die at a very young age. **

God the Father and the Mother of Jesus, according to the flesh, were associated together in the capacity of Husband and Wife if one were to believe what a few Mormons said at one time.

The Virgin Mary must have been, for the time being, the lawful wife of god the father, and god gave her to Joseph to be his wife while in the mortal state if one were to believe what a few Mormons said at one time.

Adam is the man who stands at the gate and holds the keys of everlasting life and salvation since he received delegated authority from Jesus Christ, who really holds the keys but delegates responsibilities to others.

Baptism and marriage by proxy for the deceased.

The Apostle John never died and still walks the earth today.

I am a Protestant Christian, and I do not believe any of these things. I have never heard anything to indicate that Catholics believe these things either. Could Catholic Forum Members comment?

Anna

Anna,

I have added some words above in bold print, so that it would be more aligned with what LDS beliefs are or have said or written.

Realizing that you have felt wronged by many Mormons during your life, I hope you will find in your heart the capacity to forgive them. Mormons are human, definitely not perfect, and definitely in need and grateful in every way for the atoning grace of Jesus Christ.

By the way, I don’t believe “Adam is god” in the way stated by Brigham Young, but I do believe He helped create this earth and has become exalted and that he is Michael the archangel and that there will yet be a war at the end of the Millennium between Michael and those who side with him, and Lucifer and those who side with him. No question about the knowledge that Michael and the Savior and those who side with them will win that war.

I wish you all the best in your life. Peace to you always, and the grace of your loving Savior. Forgiveness is a wonderful gift.

Peace to all. Bye.

 

[Anna_Scott]

Joseph Smith taught that Adam is "MICHAEL, the Archangel, and the ANCIENT OF DAYS.

Brigham Young taught that Adam helped to make and organize this world; Adam is MICHAEL, the Archangel, the ANCIENT OF DAYS! about whom holy men have written and spoken–“HE is our FATHER and our GOD, and the only God with whom WE have to do. . . .”

God was not from all eternity

in the way of being outside of the Universe. All people have lived as intelligences and then as spirits during eternity past.

God is an exalted man

who lived on an earth and was perfect when he lived on that earth, just as Jesus was perfect when He lived on this earth.

God has a wife and lives near a star He called Kolob

and that star governs the revolutions and orders of time for our solar system.

Men can become gods (exaltation).

The Jesus of Mormonism is not the Jesus of Christianity

since Mormons do not use the term Trinity and believe Jesus was the FirstBorn in the pre-mortal world.

The Messiah was a polygamist

if He was married to Mary and Mary and Martha. If He wasn’t married at all, then that makes sense since He knew He was going to die at a very young age.

Mormon Apostle Orson Pratt, in his book titled, The Seer, page 172:

“…the great Messiah who was the founder of the Christian religion was a Polygamist. The Messiah chose to take upon himself his seed; and by marrying many honorable wives himself, show to all future generations that he approved the plurality of Wives under Christian dispensation. . .”

God the Father and the Mother of Jesus, according to the flesh, were associated together in the capacity of Husband and Wife

if one were to believe what a few Mormons said at one time.

Mormon Apostle, Orson Pratt, in his book titled, The Seer, at page 158:

". . .Therefore, the Father and Mother of Jesus, according to the flesh, must have been associated together in the capacity of Husband and Wife. .

The Virgin Mary must have been, for the time being, the lawful wife of god the father, and god gave her to Joseph to be his wife while in the mortal state.

if one were to believe what a few Mormons said at one time.

Mormon Apostle, Orson Pratt, in his book titled, The Seer, at page 158:

. . .hence the Virgin Mary must have been, for the time being, the lawful wife of God the Father. Inasmuch as God was the first HUSBAND TO HER (Mary), it may be that He only gave her to be the wife of Joseph while in this mortal state, and that He intended after the resurrection to again take her as one of his own wives to raise up immortal spirits in eternity…"

Adam is the man who stands at the gate and holds the keys of everlasting life and salvation.
ParkerD;5885660:

since he received delegated authority from Jesus Christ, who really holds the keys but delegates responsibilities to others.

June 8, 1873, President Brigham Young, Delivered in the new Tabernacle, Salt Lake City:

"How much unbelief exists in the minds of the Latter-day Saints in regard to one particular doctrine which I revealed to them, and which God revealed to me—namely that Adam is our Father and God

—I do not know, I do not inquire, I care nothing about it. Our Father Adam helped to make this earth, it was created expressly for him, and after it was made he and his companions came here. He brought one of his wives with him, and she was called Eve, because she was the first woman upon the earth.

Our Father Adam is the man who stands at the gate and holds the keys of everlasting life and salvation to all his children who have or who ever will come upon the earth. I have been found fault with by the ministers of religion because I have said that they were ignorant. But I could not find any man on the earth who could tell me this, although it is one of the simplest things in the world, until I met and talked with Joseph Smith."(The Desert News, Discourse, By President Brigham Young, Delivered in the new Tabernacle, Salt Lake City, Sunday Afternoon, June 8th, 1873.)
(© THE UNIVERSITY OF UTAH | J. Willard Marriott Library 295 S 1500 E SLC, UT 84112-0860)

By the way, I don’t believe “Adam is god” in the way stated by Brigham Young, but I do believe He helped create this earth and has become exalted and that he is Michael the archangel and that there will yet be a war at the end of the Millennium between Michael and those who side with him, and Lucifer and those who side with him. . .

According to 2nd Mormon Prophet Brigham Young, Adam not only “stands at the gate and holds the keys of everlasting life and salvation”; but Adam is “Father” and “God.”

How did you obtain the authority to reject the beliefs of your early Prophets and Apostles? I am not asking this in a tone of sarcasm. I really want to know.

Anna

 

[Anna_Scott]

Anna,

Realizing that you have felt wronged by many Mormons during your life, I hope you will find in your heart the capacity to forgive them. Mormons are human, definitely not perfect, and definitely in need and grateful in every way for the atoning grace of Jesus Christ.

By the way, I don’t believe “Adam is god” in the way stated by Brigham Young, but I do believe He helped create this earth and has become exalted and that he is Michael the archangel and that there will yet be a war at the end of the Millennium between Michael and those who side with him, and Lucifer and those who side with him. No question about the knowledge that Michael and the Savior and those who side with them will win that war.

I wish you all the best in your life. Peace to you always, and the grace of your loving Savior. Forgiveness is a wonderful gift.

Peace to all. Bye.

ParkerD:

I felt so deceived by the Mormon Bishop and his family, for withholding the controversial Mormon beliefs, during my lessons with the Bishop and the missionaries, prior to my baptism into the LDS Church. I was so stunned when I learned the truth.

I was more brokenhearted than angry. The Bishop and his family were neighbors and friends. I felt like they really let me down. I was also disappointed in myself for allowing myself to be pulled into the Mormon deception. My family and friends really could hardly believe it.

I was at a truly vulnerable point in my life as a divorced, single Mom, with family 1000 miles away. I stayed here, after my divorce, to keep my son close to his father.

The Mormon Bishop seemed like the father I never had. That made the whole experience hurt even more.

When I learned the truth and left the LDS Church; I had to deal with all the phone calls, and people showing up at my door, and things arriving by mail–all in an attempt to pull me back in. Nothing I said made this stop, until, I finally sent a formal letter stating I was no longer a member (which I had told them verbally) and would consider any further contact as harassment (though I had already been harassed.)

My resignation was processed in 1997. I just discovered recently, that, even though I rejected Mormonism in life, proxy rites could still be performed in my name, after death. This came from a recent call I made to the LDS Records Division. I wrote about this in another post-can’t remember which thread. I told the guy in Records I did not want any proxy work done in my name. He told me nothing would be done “while you are still living.” So, it’s still not over, even 12 years later.

The Mormon experience had a deep affect on my view of organized religion. I grew up in Baptist Churches, though I am no longer Baptist. My studies have revealed many of their doctrines are not Biblical.

I am here at CAF, and have discussions with people from different religions. I have a great respect for Catholics; but I’m not certain I could actually make the leap into Catholicism.

As I have said before, I feel like I am caught somewhere between Protestantism and Catholicism.

I read and study and pray–sometimes finding myself in such despair–without a church home, and without enough trust to embrace a new church.

My posts, about the beliefs of the Mormon Church, are not done for lack of forgiveness. I just do not want anyone to go through what I did.

So, ParkerD, I have forgiven; and I wish you peace, as well.

Anna

 

[PaulDupre]

ParkerD:

…if one were to believe what a few Mormons said at one time.

Come on Parker, be honest. These were not just “a few Mormons”. You are trying to characterize these men as Joe Sixpack in the pew. That is called dissembling, Parker.

These were the founding leaders of your sect - your founding “prophets, seers and revelators”. What they were taught by Joseph Smith and what they believed and taught to their followers is very important because it gives a clear picture of how your church was founded and the beliefs on which it is still based today. It also gives a very clear picture of how non-credible your “prophets, seers and revelators” were back then and still are today. They were, and are, an extremely gullible bunch, blown about by every wind of doctrine.

 

[ParkerD]

Mormon Apostle Orson Pratt, in his book titled, The Seer, page 172:

Mormon Apostle, Orson Pratt, in his book titled, The Seer, at page 158:

Mormon Apostle, Orson Pratt, in his book titled, The Seer, at page 158:

June 8, 1873, President Brigham Young, Delivered in the new Tabernacle, Salt Lake City:

According to 2nd Mormon Prophet Brigham Young, Adam not only “stands at the gate and holds the keys of everlasting life and salvation”; but Adam is “Father” and “God.”

How did you obtain the authority to reject the beliefs of your early Prophets and Apostles? I am not asking this in a tone of sarcasm. I really want to know.

Anna

Anna,
I had tried to post an answer to your question earlier today at my dad’s house, but I see it didn’t take, so I’ll answer again now.

I don’t need “authority to reject the beliefs of (19th Century LDS) prophets and apostles”.
Mormons aren’t asked that kind of a question, ever. We are asked if we sustain the current president of the LDS church as prophet, seer, and revelator, with all the keys of the priesthood, and sustain the current apostles as prophets, seers, and revelators also. We aren’t asked if we believe or sustain every teaching or quote by every former president of the church or former apostle. If I were to be asked that question in terms of “worthiness”, I would respond, “Show me the specific quote or teaching you are asking about, and show me what Thomas S Monson has said or written about that subject, and I’ll be able to answer your question.”

I do believe Joseph Smith was a prophet, and fulfilled the purposes God had for him on the earth. I also believe Brigham Young had important purposes he was suited to fulfill, and provided prophetic leadership in fulfilling the purposes God intended with his calling as prophet. Joseph Smith gave the doctrinal foundation for the latter-day church. Brigham Young didn’t have that role–his major role was to guide the LDS members in their migration and colonization in the western United States.

 

[PaulDupre]

I do believe Joseph Smith was a prophet, and fulfilled the purposes God had for him on the earth. I also believe Brigham Young had important purposes he was suited to fulfill, and provided prophetic leadership in fulfilling the purposes God intended with his calling as prophet. Joseph Smith gave the doctrinal foundation for the latter-day church. Brigham Young didn’t have that role–his major role was to guide the LDS members in their migration and colonization in the western United States.

Poor short-sighted Brigham, he didn’t understand his limited role. He thought he was a real prophet, seer and revelator and he “revelated” a lot of very weird and offensive stuff.

Too bad he didn’t have Parker around to rein him in and set him straight.

The LDS church has always taught that the prophet would never be allowed to lead the church astray.

Fourth LDS President Wilford Woodruff taught:

“The Lord will never permit me or any other man who stands as President of this church to lead you astray. It is not in the programme. It is not in the mind of God. If I were to attempt that, the Lord would remove me out of my place, and so He will any other man who attempts to lead the children of men astray from the oracles of God and their duty.”

So, Parker, if all those prophets were so wrong in their teachings as you say here, then why did the Lord not remove them out of their places??? They certainly led millions of faithful Mormons astray with horribly ugly racist teachings.

It’s almost as if your prophets are not in touch with God at all.

 

[Anna_Scott]

Anna,
I had tried to post an answer to your question earlier today at my dad’s house, but I see it didn’t take, so I’ll answer again now.

I don’t need “authority to reject the beliefs of (19th Century LDS) prophets and apostles”.

Mormons aren’t asked that kind of a question, ever. We **are asked if we sustain the current president of the LDS church as prophet, seer, and revelator, with all the keys of the priesthood, and sustain the current apostles as prophets, seers, and revelators also. **

We aren’t asked if we believe or sustain every teaching or quote by every former president of the church or former apostle. If I were to be asked that question in terms of “worthiness”, I would respond, “Show me the specific quote or teaching you are asking about, and show me what Thomas S Monson has said or written about that subject, and I’ll be able to answer your question.”

I do believe Joseph Smith was a prophet, and fulfilled the purposes God had for him on the earth.

I also believe Brigham Young had important purposes he was suited to fulfill, and provided prophetic leadership in fulfilling the purposes God intended with his calling as prophet. Joseph Smith gave the doctrinal foundation for the latter-day church. Brigham Young didn’t have that role–his major role was to guide the LDS members in their migration and colonization in the western United States.

ParkerD:

You are saying the teachings of the current Mormon Prophet (seer, and revelator, with all the keys of the priesthood,) are what you follow; and if I understood you correctly, you accept the current apostles as prophets, seers, and revelators.

It is very clear that the current Mormon Prophet, can override, or disagree with, or even deny, the truth of a revelation from an earlier Prophet. So, I do not understand how you can call the LDS Presidents “Prophets.”

The Bible is very clear about the definition of a true Prophet. There is no margin of error. This is clearly demonstrated in Deuteronomy. (Let me say, up front, that I am not advocating the execution of LDS Prophets.)

Deuteronomy Chapter 18:

20 **But the prophet who presumes to speak a word in my name that I have not commanded him to speak, or who speaks in the name of other gods, that same prophet shall die.’ **

21 And if you say in your heart, ‘How may we know the word that the LORD has not spoken?’

— 22** when a prophet speaks in the name of the LORD, if the word does not come to pass or come true, that is a word that the LORD has not spoken**; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously. You need not be afraid of him.

Deuteronomy Chapter 13 (ESV):

1**"If a prophet or a dreamer of dreams arises among you and gives you a sign or a wonder, 2 and the sign or wonder that he tells you comes to pass, and if he says, ‘Let us go after other gods,’ which you have not known, ‘and let us serve them,’ 3 you shall not listen to the words of that prophet or that dreamer of dreams. **

For the LORD your God is testing you, to know whether you love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul.

4 You shall walk after the LORD your God and fear him and keep his commandments and obey his voice, and you shall serve him and hold fast to him.

5 But that prophet or that dreamer of dreams shall be put to death, because he has taught rebellion against the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt and redeemed you out of the house of slavery, to make you leave the way in which the LORD your God commanded you to walk. So you shall purge the evil from your midst.

Parker: You seem very devoted to your church and your faith; and you spend a great deal of time answering our questions. I appreciate that. I feel bad that, even though visiting your dad, you were trying to answer my post. Really, Parker, it’s O.K. to take a break.

I guess I just do not understand your devotion to a religion that changes according to the Prophet in power. It’s not just the words of Brigham Young that are disturbing, there is also the issue of a number of failed prophecies proclaimed by Joseph Smith.

Surely, you must wonder how all the inconsistencies realistically fit together.

Anna

 

[banarick]

This has probably been brought up numerous times but I am curious how Catholics view LDS and how LDS views Catholicism.

From “A Marvelous Work and A Wonder” by LeGrand Richards (esteemed Mormon) sums up both sides nicely. pg 3

 Catholic Utterance by RCC member to Orson F. Whitney, of the Council of Twelve Apostles of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
 "You Mormons are all ignoramuses.  You don't even know the strength of your own position.  It is so strong that there is only one other tenable in the whole Christian world, and that is the position of the Catholic Church.  The issue is between Catholicism and Mormonism.  If we are right, you are wrong; if you are right, we are wrong;  and that's all there is to it.  The Protestants haven't a leg to stand on.  For, if we are wrong, they are wrong with us, since they were a part of us and went out from us; while if we are right, they are apostates whom we cut off long ago.  If we have the apostolic succession from St Peter, as we claim, there is no need of Joseph Smith and Mormonism; but if we have not that succession, then such a man as Joseph Smith was necessary, and Mormonism's attitude is the only consistent one.  It is either the perpetuation of the gospel from ancient times, or the restoration of the gospel in latter days"

 

[ParkerD]

ParkerD:

You are saying the teachings of the current Mormon Prophet (seer, and revelator, with all the keys of the priesthood,) are what you follow; and if I understood you correctly, you accept the current apostles as prophets, seers, and revelators.

It is very clear that the current Mormon Prophet, can override, or disagree with, or even deny, the truth of a revelation from an earlier Prophet. So, I do not understand how you can call the LDS Presidents “Prophets.”

The Bible is very clear about the definition of a true Prophet. There is no margin of error. This is clearly demonstrated in Deuteronomy. (Let me say, up front, that I am not advocating the execution of LDS Prophets.)

Deuteronomy Chapter 18:

Deuteronomy Chapter 13 (ESV):

Parker: You seem very devoted to your church and your faith; and you spend a great deal of time answering our questions. I appreciate that. I feel bad that, even though visiting your dad, you were trying to answer my post. Really, Parker, it’s O.K. to take a break.

I guess I just do not understand your devotion to a religion that changes according to the Prophet in power. It’s not just the words of Brigham Young that are disturbing, there is also the issue of a number of failed prophecies proclaimed by Joseph Smith.

Surely, you must wonder how all the inconsistencies realistically fit together.

Anna

Anna,
I’ve responded on the other thread. My dad was having a nap when I looked on this website for a few minutes, while my “new mom” (for whom I am so grateful) was out grocery shopping. It’s all good. I’m fine. Have a good weekend also.

 

[ParkerD]

Poor short-sighted Brigham, he didn’t understand his limited role. He thought he was a real prophet, seer and revelator and he “revelated” a lot of very weird and offensive stuff.

Too bad he didn’t have Parker around to rein him in and set him straight.

The LDS church has always taught that the prophet would never be allowed to lead the church astray.

Fourth LDS President Wilford Woodruff taught:

So, Parker, if all those prophets were so wrong in their teachings as you say here, then why did the Lord not remove them out of their places??? They certainly led millions of faithful Mormons astray with horribly ugly racist teachings.

It’s almost as if your prophets are not in touch with God at all.

Paul,
“Astray” means down a path of error that is not in accordance with what God either wills or allows for His chosen people. The Mormons are still here. They haven’t “gone astray” although you don’t think they ever weren’t “astray.” So there is no real issue for you about whether I or any Mormon have been led astray. For you we are astray from the get-go.

If BY had placed Blacks into the priesthood offices of the church in his day, then the mobs of the state of Missouri would have killed every Mormon who set foot in the state–no question in my mind about that. There would still have been issues about that when the group moved to Deseret, also. Just because God let that happen in a human way that allowed the saints to not be more violently attacked than they were, does not mean I have to hold it against God that He didn’t reveal to Brigham Young that which He revealed to Spencer W Kimball and the quorum of the Twelve in 1978. I don’t hold it against God, nor do I hold it against Brigham Young. It is not an issue for me.

I have never had the slightest animosity toward Blacks, not in 1970, not in 1974 in Los Angeles, not in 1976, and in 1978 I was delighted but not surprised at all. It was correct doctrine, and the “time had fully come.” Why should I gripe about the Lord’s timetable? Peter didn’t, nor did Paul. I’m not them, but I can see the hand of the Lord in the events in my day just as they saw the hand of the Lord in the events of their day.