LDS & Catholic Comparison

[thecourt]

Marie5890 were you taught these things you claim by the missionaries? The missionaries do not teach the things you claimed. From a Gospel Doctrine teacher who should have been released for teaching anything other than the gospel as it should be taught?

Or did you become exposed to some Anti Mormon garbage? The garbage here on the forums it is obvious that it has influenced you.

 

[Marie5890]

Marie5890 were you taught these things you claim by the missionaries? The missionaries do not teach the things you claimed. From a Gospel Doctrine teacher who should have been released for teaching anything other than the gospel as it should be taught?

Or did you become exposed to some Anti Mormon garbage? The garbage here on the forums it is obvious that it has influenced you.

The missionaries. It was also taught in Sunday School, Sacrament meeting and RS, while I lived in Provo.

I also remember it being freely talked about when I was part of the cast of the Hill Cumorah Pageant. Did that for 3 years.

 

[Kdesiel]

The missionaries. It was also taught in Sunday School, Sacrament meeting and RS, while I lived in Provo.

I also remember it being freely talked about when I was part of the cast of the Hill Cumorah Pageant. Did that for 3 years.

It was and is taught and currently taught in Sunday school, Elders Quorum, from the First Presidency at General Conference, through various articles in publications such as the “Ensign”.
These are common teachings and doctrines within the Mormon Church. Posters who deflect and say they are not, or suggest they are teaching of some apostate are simply members who do not know the Religion they profess to follow, or they do not want to address or face the controversial nature these teachings hold especially in light of Christian teachings. Classic deflection and unwillingness to Face Facts.

 

[thecourt]

Kdesiel I have concluded you are making this up and as some never had a solid testimony or was offended or became exposed to the false garbage spread here on the forums, etc. I use to live in Orem, Utah so if this was being taught, which I do not believe such, I would heard about it.

Nonetheless if you want to believe it, you certainly can continue to do so.

 

[mrparker]

It was and is taught and currently taught in Sunday school, Elders Quorum, from the First Presidency at General Conference, through various articles in publications such as the “Ensign”.
These are common teachings and doctrines within the Mormon Church. Posters who deflect and say they are not, or suggest they are teaching of some apostate are simply members who do not know the Religion they profess to follow, or they do not want to address or face the controversial nature these teachings hold especially in light of Christian teachings. Classic deflection and unwillingness to Face Facts.

This is true. And Kdesiel what you were taught is what is taught.

thecourt:

Marie5890 states a number of things that are false about my church.

Catholics believe marriage covenant ends at death – we seal in the temple for time and eternity so death will never break that covenant.

Home run

Heavenly Mother is false.

Strike

We believe we created in the image in God.

Good job

We do not believe that God at one time lived on the earth.

You got to first base on this one seeing that you used the definite article “the” but we do believe he existed somewhere in mortality. If you want clarifcation on this let me know

We do pray to Jesus Christ — do Catholics pray to Mary?

Strike again - We pray to God in the name of Jesus Christ. We do not pray TO Christ. We do not share belief with the Catholics of the trinity, and Christ and God are two separate beings

We do pray to intercessors.

Strike 3 … it’s time to sit down, and go practice, study up my friend. If you need help understanding some of these principles, let me know, and study the teachings of the early prophets.

You courageous attempt at defending your faith is respectable thecourt, however, i might encourage you to study the materials of the Church, and teachings of the prophets and apostles thoroughly. We don’t want to cause contention and misunderstanding ever, and on top of that, remember this is catholic.com. You are a guest.

I do not doubt the Holy Ghost has confirmed to you the things you were taught, but you must continue to seek learning and understanding regarding the mysteries of God. God bless you theCourt, continue to pray hard, read much, and be faithful to our Lord.

thecourt:

We believe in become LIKE GOD, NOT A GOD as she falsely states.

False. Those who are exalted in the highest degree, will be able to become Gods.

 

[Kdesiel]

This is true. And Kdesiel what you were taught is what is taught.

Home run

Strike

Good job

You got to first base on this one seeing that you used the definite article “the” but we do believe he existed somewhere in mortality. If you want clarifcation on this let me know

Strike again - We pray to God in the name of Jesus Christ. We do not pray TO Christ. We do not share belief with the Catholics of the trinity, and Christ and God are two separate beings

Strike 3 … it’s time to sit down, and go practice, study up my friend. If you need help understanding some of these principles, let me know, and study the teachings of the early prophets.

You courageous attempt at defending your faith is respectable thecourt, however, i might encourage you to study the materials of the Church, and teachings of the prophets and apostles thoroughly. We don’t want to cause contention and misunderstanding ever, and on top of that, remember this is catholic.com. You are a guest.

I do not doubt the Holy Ghost has confirmed to you the things you were taught, but you must continue to seek learning and understanding regarding the mysteries of God. God bless you theCourt, continue to pray hard, read much, and be faithful to our Lord.

False. Those who are exalted in the highest degree, will be able to become Gods.

Mr. Parker thanks for the clear cut answers. I was losing faith that there still might be an LDS poster willing to answer in a clear cut manner. I appreciate your candid and honest approach to replying to posts and answering questions without deflections or using condescending language.

The points I posted I didn’t “make up” nor did I bring them up as disparaging remarks in order to shed a negative light on the LDS faith. They are simply points of doctrine taught within the Mormon religion. These teachings are what make the LDS faith unique, it what differentiates the Mormons from contemporary Christians. I grew up LDS, my whole family is LDS, I was a missionary, and I was endowed, and sealed in the temple. I grew up in the LDS church until I converted to the Catholic faith.
I would love to discuss with you more. I have and do not claim to “know it all” but I do have a very firm grasp as to what the LDS church professes.
Thank you again for your sincerity and good nature.

 

[thecourt]

ricko claims I believe in multiple Gods — if wanting to become like God, not become a God is a bad thing, I do not know what to say.

I understand Catholicism enough as a former Catholic and other Christians in general.

The Book of Mormon is witness that shows a doubting world that Jesus is the Christ so make every effort to continue to explain the gospel from the Bible — no trumping anything.

Fear to keep people in line — is laughable. If I chose to leave, no one is going to stop me at all. No fear at all.

The truth has come forward through the instrumentality of the prophet Joseph Smith. I have not been misled.

 

[Anna_Scott]

Anna Scott,
Hello and I hope you are well. I’ll try and briefly answer:

Brigham Young didn’t teach that “throughout his years”, nor did such a remark “lead the people astray” because you will find if you research that the people were still praying to Heavenly Father, were still worshiping Heavenly Father and the Savior, and still regarded Adam as being Michael the Archangel.

I think that the leading astray is quite the reverse, in that God can allow imperfect people to do things that will enable and continue His perfect work. What has happened during the years following, as your personal example illustrates, is that people are sifted as to whether they are tares or are wheat, whether they have the Holy Spirit individually to guide them or are merely following appealing doctrines, whether they have soil that will bear fruit through the fruits of the Spirit, or whether they will leave just as Christ asked His disciples (apostles) “will you also go away?”

All I know is my own experience as far as this gift. It does not necessarily mean “seeing into the future”. It means “having an unshakeable testimony of Jesus.” I have experienced that and still do. I also am well aware through the Holy Spirit that all prophecies of the Bible will be fulfilled in the due time of the Lord.

I thought I was addressing your specific question. “Seers and revelators” has to do with both authority (keys to revealed knowledge) and the involvement of the Holy Spirit with each of those who are so sustained. “The spirit of prophecy” encompasses a much broader group than “seers and revelators.” Moses said “would God that all the Lord’s people were prophets, and that the Lord would put his spirit upon them!” (Numbers 11:29)

Anna Scott,

Here are more answers:

That idea did not become a teaching of the LDS church. I think Brigham Young’s expression of his personal beliefs on the subject was a personal expression and was not presented as a doctrine that the whole church or even the apostles needed to accept in the words he used. But bear in mind that Michael being the Archangel, the Ancient of Days, the one raised up along with Christ to eventually have another war with Satan and his forces, and the one who participated with Christ in organizing this earth during its creation, is a pretty big deal, and since Adam and Eve will eventually be the grand progenitors who have their entire posterity sealed to them so that those who are righteous will have that sealing in place to enable them to gain the powers in eternity that are implied in omnipotence and who present their posterity to Christ and say “all is ready” for His advocacy with the Father, is a very big deal. I think Brigham Young had temple work very much on his mind when he discussed that topic.

OK. So then we as mortals who are also expected to get the Holy Spirit ourselves, are allowed and expected to figure out how the thing that is “revealed” applies to us, and the Holy Spirit becomes involved to provide individual discernment and confirmation of true doctrine correctly understood. The Holy Spirit is absolutely essential, even for those who say they are following a prophet. Christ taught that, and Paul taught that.

Doctrine and Covenants 5:10 is the specific verse.

Anna,
As I’ve indicated before, I don’t think the world was ready for the kind of priesthood leadership and responsibility that would be given to African Americans and other Blacks by not withholding the priesthood during the period when it was withheld. I am not sure whether the culture itself was ready for that, either. (They haven’t shown to any great degree that they were as an entire culture, although some individuals certainly were.)

God does not impose His will. He is patient. He lets it be that His will will come about eventually, through processes that seem slow and imperfect to us with our tiny world view and perspective. He has the “long view” and while all of His children are bickering and misunderstanding each other, He knows the potential of each child and will see to it that they can reach their personal potential through His perfect plan, and Blacks are included in every respect of having the potential to become “like Christ” but as with everyone else, it must be on God’s terms and through God’s authority and will happen under God’s timetable. People are naturally impatient, and that’s OK, but one of the major reasons we are here in this world is to learn patience, and a lot of that learning is not going to be comfortable for us.

We are going to be out of our comfort zone. We are going to be stretched, and our faith is going to be tested. That’s just the way it is–it is the way it was for Abraham. No question about that issue being a difficult test of faith, but many, many people have risen to the challenge of keeping the Holy Spirit in their lives and gaining enough understanding to rejoice that the priesthood ban was lifted by revelation.

ParkerD:

I appreciate all your effort in answering my posts and explaining your views.

I think that our definition of a “prophet” and a “false prophet” are entirely different–which means we will not agree on the implications of the proclamations of the early LDS prophets.

My views remain unchanged, and I am certain yours remain unchanged, as well.

I will say that I appreciate the respectful tone of most of your posts. I have no doubt that you are dedicated to your faith.

God Bless,
Anna

 

[DerekD]

ricko claims I believe in multiple Gods — if wanting to become like God, not become a God is a bad thing, I do not know what to say.

I understand Catholicism enough as a former Catholic and other Christians in general.

The Book of Mormon is witness that shows a doubting world that Jesus is the Christ so make every effort to continue to explain the gospel from the Bible — no trumping anything.

Fear to keep people in line — is laughable. If I chose to leave, no one is going to stop me at all. No fear at all.

The truth has come forward through the instrumentality of the prophet Joseph Smith. I have not been misled.

You have been mislead. If you feel that Catholicism was the wrong choice, then what makes you believe this new choice was any better? You have already shown you do not make good choices according to your own testimony.

A question, if I ask a LDS what must I do to get to heaven, what should be the correct response according to the taching of LDS? Thanks in advance.

 

[mrparker]

Mr. Parker thanks for the clear cut answers. I was losing faith that there still might be an LDS poster willing to answer in a clear cut manner. I appreciate your candid and honest approach to replying to posts and answering questions without deflections or using condescending language.

The points I posted I didn’t “make up” nor did I bring them up as disparaging remarks in order to shed a negative light on the LDS faith. They are simply points of doctrine taught within the Mormon religion. These teachings are what make the LDS faith unique, it what differentiates the Mormons from contemporary Christians. I grew up LDS, my whole family is LDS, I was a missionary, and I was endowed, and sealed in the temple. I grew up in the LDS church until I converted to the Catholic faith.
I would love to discuss with you more. I have and do not claim to “know it all” but I do have a very firm grasp as to what the LDS church professes.
Thank you again for your sincerity and good nature.

I read this post sort of backwards, starting from the most recent post, which sometimes is hard to follow when people are getting quoted multiple times But i realized there was quite a misunderstanding, and our friend theCourt seems to take things as disparaging although they are not intended to be so. I saw this and i appreciated the manner in which you presented the things you were taught while a part of the LDS faith.

I would also love to share discussion with you and learn more of how you came to your faith in Catholicism, as i find it fascinating.

 

[Anna_Scott]

Since the definition of “Christian” is still under debate, I will re-post the following:

Dianaiad:

Actually, the definition of “Christianity” is not always the same.

Cults sprang up very quickly, after the resurrection of Christ. Gnostics called themselves Christians, Adoptionists called themselves Christians, and other groups, as well.

Mormons have the religious freedom to call themselves Christians.

I have the religious freedom to call myself Christian. However, my definition of Christianity may be quite different from others, who call themselves Christians.

I have the religious freedom to believe that certain groups, who call themselves Christians, are not Christian in the way ***I ***know, experience, and understand Christianity.

Just as you have the religious freedom to believe that certain groups, who call themselves Christians, are not Christian in the way you know, experience, and understand Christianity.

So, if I say I do not believe a certain religion is Christian; I am not insulting that group. I am merely saying they are not Christian, according to my beliefs and understanding of Christianity.

You complain about giving in joint charity projects with Catholics. Then stop giving. If you resent the giving, is it really a charitable act?

**My main point is that none of us have the right to demand that any religious group change their beliefs, and definition of Christianity, in order to make another group feel more comfortable or more accepted. **

Participating in joint charity projects with Catholics, or any other Christians, should not be done with the expectation that they will acquiesce to your beliefs.

I strongly disagree with Mormon doctrines. That does not make me an “anti” or a “hater.” I disagree with the doctrines of many religions, as I would imagine you do. That does not mean that I hate the people who believe differently from me.

I did go through a painful ordeal with the Mormon Church; but I have forgiven those who hurt and deceived me.

Christ has called us to love God and to love one another. We can do this without compromising our beliefs.

In Christ,
Anna

I am not insulted, if another religious group, says that I am not a “Christian.” They have the religious freedom to hold this belief. Such a belief does not have a negative impact on my faith or my identity as a Christian.

Anna

 

[PaulDupre]

ricko claims I believe in multiple Gods — if wanting to become like God, not become a God is a bad thing, I do not know what to say.

Your fellow Mormon, mrparker, has already stated that you are wrong about this. You should listen to him. I hope the other Mormons here will help straighten you out too, perhaps via private message. I just hope they will be honest with you.

 

[DerekD]

I would also love to share discussion with you and learn more of how you came to your faith in Catholicism, as i find it fascinating.

I would like to pose the same question to you as I have “the Court”; if I ask a LDS what must I do to get to heaven, what should be the correct response according to the taching of LDS? Thanks in advance.

Doesn’t the Bible say that Christians are sons of God and “gods”? John 10 and Psalm 82?

 

[twopekinguys]

This is true. And Kdesiel what you were taught is what is taught.

Home run

Strike

Good job

You got to first base on this one seeing that you used the definite article “the” but we do believe he existed somewhere in mortality. If you want clarifcation on this let me know

Strike again - We pray to God in the name of Jesus Christ. We do not pray TO Christ. We do not share belief with the Catholics of the trinity, and Christ and God are two separate beings

Strike 3 … it’s time to sit down, and go practice, study up my friend. If you need help understanding some of these principles, let me know, and study the teachings of the early prophets.

You courageous attempt at defending your faith is respectable thecourt, however, i might encourage you to study the materials of the Church, and teachings of the prophets and apostles thoroughly. We don’t want to cause contention and misunderstanding ever, and on top of that, remember this is catholic.com. You are a guest.

I do not doubt the Holy Ghost has confirmed to you the things you were taught, but you must continue to seek learning and understanding regarding the mysteries of God. God bless you theCourt, continue to pray hard, read much, and be faithful to our Lord.

False. Those who are exalted in the highest degree, will be able to become Gods.

I have to echo what Kdiesel said. Very good answers.

 

[Kdesiel]

I would like to pose the same question to you as I have “the Court”; if I ask a LDS what must I do to get to heaven, what should be the correct response according to the taching of LDS? Thanks in advance.

Doesn’t the Bible say that Christians are sons of God and “gods”? John 10 and Psalm 82?

I hope I’m not too intrusive by giving you my answer or thoughts on your first question.

Simply put, Mormons believe you have to partake in the Proper ordinances performed by someone with the proper authority i.e. the Priesthood authority. These ordinances include Baptism by immersion, Confirmation (receiving the Holy Ghost), The Endowment, and Celestial Marriage (Marriage in the Temple). LDS doctrine state these are necessary ordinances in order to inherit the Highest degree of Glory in the Celestial Kingdom, where you live in the Presence of God the Father, Jesus Christ, and The Holy Ghost.

So participating in these “Saving” ordinances performed through the Priesthood you can go to heaven.

That’s how I understood it when I was Mormon.

 

[Xavierlives]

Dianaiad:

Actually, the definition of “Christianity” is not always the same.

Cults sprang up very quickly, after the resurrection of Christ. Gnostics called themselves Christians, Adoptionists called themselves Christians, and other groups, as well.

Mormons have the religious freedom to call themselves Christians.

I have the religious freedom to call myself Christian. However, my definition of Christianity may be quite different from others, who call themselves Christians.

I have the religious freedom to believe that certain groups, who call themselves Christians, are not Christian in the way ***I ***know, experience, and understand Christianity.

Just as you have the religious freedom to believe that certain groups, who call themselves Christians, are not Christian in the way you know, experience, and understand Christianity.

So, if I say I do not believe a certain religion is Christian; I am not insulting that group. I am merely saying they are not Christian, according to my beliefs and understanding of Christianity.

You complain about giving in joint charity projects with Catholics. Then stop giving. If you resent the giving, is it really a charitable act?

**My main point is that none of us have the right to demand that any religious group change their beliefs, and definition of Christianity, in order to make another group feel more comfortable or more accepted. **

Participating in joint charity projects with Catholics, or any other Christians, should not be done with the expectation that they will acquiesce to your beliefs.

I strongly disagree with Mormon doctrines. That does not make me an “anti” or a “hater.” I disagree with the doctrines of many religions, as I would imagine you do. That does not mean that I hate the people who believe differently from me.

I did go through a painful ordeal with the Mormon Church; but I have forgiven those who hurt and deceived me.

Christ has called us to love God and to love one another. We can do this without compromising our beliefs.

In Christ,
Anna

Since the definition of “Christian” is still under debate, I will re-post the following:

I am not insulted, if another religious group, says that I am not a “Christian.” They have the religious freedom to hold this belief. Such a belief does not have a negative impact on my faith or my identity as a Christian.

Anna

I think my only concern about this statement is it will be their defense as well. Meaning, “I won’t call you a non-Christian if you don’t call me a non-Christian.” I have been making one basic argument about this for a couple of days and the whole thing revolves around what is right. Mormons have a resonsibilty to let converts know that, while they are Christ centered, this faith is based on the Book of Mormon. They are not valid speakers for Christianity because they are not Christians. They are valid speakers for Mormons. Their answers for Christianity inevitable will include their Book of Mormon Doctrine and that is different than Christianity. They have refined it. They have modified the substance. Water and salt water are different and we are the salt. They can’t claim to be both fresh water and salt water. It just doesn’t work. They need to pick Mormon and embrace it.

 

[thecourt]

Xavierlives just because I believe in the Book of Mormon does makes me just as much a Christian as another, particularly with the Bible, the Book of Mormon is a additional witness of Christ in this doubting world that Jesus is more than a prophet, he is the son of God.

 

[Kdesiel]

Xavierlives:
I think my only concern about this statement is it will be their defense as well. Meaning, “I won’t call you a non-Christian if you don’t call me a non-Christian.” I have been running argument for a couple of days and the whole thing revolves around responsibility. Mormons have a resonsibilty to let converts know that, while they are Christ centered, this faith is based on the Book of Mormon. They are not valid speakers for Christianity because they are not Christians. They are valid speakers for Mormons. Their answers for Christianity inevitable will include their Book of Mormon Doctrine and that is different than Christianity. They have refined it. They have modified the substance. Water and salt water are different and we are the salt. They can’t claim to be both fresh water and salt water. It just doesn’t work. They need to pick Mormon and embrace it.

The LDS Church does put Christ at the center; however the teachings of Christ in the Book of Mormon differ substantially than from Christ in the Bible. Also in order to believe and be a faithful Mormon, you not only have to have a testimony of Christ but also a testimony of Joseph Smith. In fact you may say, this is my opinion not LDS teaching, you would almost have to have a stronger testimony of J.Smiths legitimacy as a Prophet and his works within the restoration. This puts your real focus on belief not on the teachings of Christ but on whether or not J.Smith was who he claimed to be.
Without J.Smith there is no Book of Mormon, there is no Restoration, there is no legitimacy of the Mormon’s claim that they are the Restored Gospel of Jesus Christ, and they resemble and are the Church of Christ which was established from the time of Adam, which Christ reestablished in his time. Through various apostasies the need for restoration developed, J.Smith being the final restoration or dispensation head.
So as a Mormon your testimony of J.Smith has to be stronger than that of Christ in order for you to adhere to the teachings.
That’s just my two cents worth.

 

[Marie5890]

MrParker,

Thank you for your clarity and honesty in what Mormonism teaches. I find it refreshing

 

[PaulDupre]

Xavierlives just because I believe in the Book of Mormon does makes me just as much a Christian as another, particularly with the Bible, the Book of Mormon is a additional witness of Christ in this doubting world that Jesus is more than a prophet, he is the son of God.

A person who will not believe the Bible will not start believing it because of the Book of Mormon.

And people who do believe the Bible always reject the Book of Mormon.

So your “second witness” thing really makes no sense.