X
Xavierlives
Guest
Record of Dialogue:
First, go back and read the posts. I am not the one who said the Bible was inerrant, I am the one who asked the question, “Are you saying that because Moses included bats in Leviticus 11:13-19 in a list of fowl, that the Bible has proven errors?” My motive was to find out why is a person who claims the Bible is the Word of God (so long as it is translated correctly) is trying to prove errors.
Most non-Christians take this shotgun approach with disproof. They load for dove, and start shooting (dove-shot has a wide field, if you aren’t a hunter). When something hits, they get to say “I win!” Then claim with this observation that the Bible has errors and should serves no purpose in their lives. Now when they are discussing the errors in the Bible, the errors are generally classified into two categories, errors by man and errors by God. As you said, no errors, cart blanc, is the “Inerrancy of the Bible” while the errors by man but not errors by God is the “Infallibility of the Bible.” The problem is most non-Christians don’t care about infallibility or inerrancy. They want errors.
You say you are just trying to show errors of man and you are not attacking any doctrine, but your questions and responses show otherwise.
The “bat issue” is insidious in nature because it isn’t an observation that says “there is a typo,” it is saying either God makes mistakes or the greatest prophet of the Old Testament made mistakes. Since the error being discussed is a law being handed down, this is a doctrinal issue. As you said, God knows a mammal isn’t a bird therefore the mistake wasn’t God’s. So Moses, sorry buddy, but you were wrong. You were wrong because someone in the 18th century started classifying the zoological nomenclature decided bats are not fowl.
Oh, but hold on, Moses! I just remembered something! Man can change the way of man. The naming and classifying of animals was left to man. When God established the law that eating bats was unclean, He was referring to them in the easiest rcognizable fashion for man. I pretty sure there wasn’t a conversation, “Oh, by the way Moses, your classification of the bat is going to be found inconsistant so lets just fix that problem now and rightly classify bat as the only flighted mammal you can’t eat). The point was, “Don’t eat bats.” Nontheless, by pointing to this “error” you can make a claim to an error in doctrine. Laws have definintions and lawyers argue them all the time.
But what is at stake if someone can show Moses was wrong? If the Bible is proven to have errors, then the use of Deut. 13:1 - 5 and 18:20 – 22, (where God’s gives Israel the way to identify false prophecies and prophets) would be severely hamstrung. Since the truth is required, if you can get a Christian recognizes errors in the Bible, then you should be able show and they should accept errors from other additional text. Then when that text from another prophets do make mistakes (maybe they even want to be able to say, prophets make mistakes on doctrine). I wonder why they would ever want to say that?
Now the “factual errors” like did Solomon have 4,000 horse stalls or 40,000 horse stalls can be easily dispatched with logic. You won’t like most of the answers but they are “non-typo” inerrant answer. Mountains or Mountain, answerable. Every single apparent flaw that you would like to spew, has been asked and answered. The problem is, you won’t accept the answer, just like a non-Christian. And why? Because it does not fit within the confines of what you want from the Bible. As for me, I am left not having to disprove anything in the Bible. I don’t need to because I know it is God’s word, I know God does not make errors. For all I know, God’s plan for giving Solomon 40,000 stalls was so I could have this discussion with you today. (Now, there is yet another reason why it isn’t an error.) The beauty in the Bible is, 2 Tim 3:16-17 says:
[16]16All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: [17] That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.
I can use it to test all doctrine. I can use it to shine my light right into the dark. Things of the dark would rather it be dark. Things of the dark do not like to be revealed. The good news is the light is constant and can’t be extinguished and things of the dark, well they often scurry back to where they came.
{as an aside: if you would like the exercise in logical fallacies again, I’ll be happy to respond to your countless claims, but I’m pretty sure the arguments are without fault}.
For all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.
Ok, for expedience, I am going to group all of this together.
First, go back and read the posts. I am not the one who said the Bible was inerrant, I am the one who asked the question, “Are you saying that because Moses included bats in Leviticus 11:13-19 in a list of fowl, that the Bible has proven errors?” My motive was to find out why is a person who claims the Bible is the Word of God (so long as it is translated correctly) is trying to prove errors.
Most non-Christians take this shotgun approach with disproof. They load for dove, and start shooting (dove-shot has a wide field, if you aren’t a hunter). When something hits, they get to say “I win!” Then claim with this observation that the Bible has errors and should serves no purpose in their lives. Now when they are discussing the errors in the Bible, the errors are generally classified into two categories, errors by man and errors by God. As you said, no errors, cart blanc, is the “Inerrancy of the Bible” while the errors by man but not errors by God is the “Infallibility of the Bible.” The problem is most non-Christians don’t care about infallibility or inerrancy. They want errors.
You say you are just trying to show errors of man and you are not attacking any doctrine, but your questions and responses show otherwise.
The “bat issue” is insidious in nature because it isn’t an observation that says “there is a typo,” it is saying either God makes mistakes or the greatest prophet of the Old Testament made mistakes. Since the error being discussed is a law being handed down, this is a doctrinal issue. As you said, God knows a mammal isn’t a bird therefore the mistake wasn’t God’s. So Moses, sorry buddy, but you were wrong. You were wrong because someone in the 18th century started classifying the zoological nomenclature decided bats are not fowl.
Oh, but hold on, Moses! I just remembered something! Man can change the way of man. The naming and classifying of animals was left to man. When God established the law that eating bats was unclean, He was referring to them in the easiest rcognizable fashion for man. I pretty sure there wasn’t a conversation, “Oh, by the way Moses, your classification of the bat is going to be found inconsistant so lets just fix that problem now and rightly classify bat as the only flighted mammal you can’t eat). The point was, “Don’t eat bats.” Nontheless, by pointing to this “error” you can make a claim to an error in doctrine. Laws have definintions and lawyers argue them all the time.
But what is at stake if someone can show Moses was wrong? If the Bible is proven to have errors, then the use of Deut. 13:1 - 5 and 18:20 – 22, (where God’s gives Israel the way to identify false prophecies and prophets) would be severely hamstrung. Since the truth is required, if you can get a Christian recognizes errors in the Bible, then you should be able show and they should accept errors from other additional text. Then when that text from another prophets do make mistakes (maybe they even want to be able to say, prophets make mistakes on doctrine). I wonder why they would ever want to say that?
Now the “factual errors” like did Solomon have 4,000 horse stalls or 40,000 horse stalls can be easily dispatched with logic. You won’t like most of the answers but they are “non-typo” inerrant answer. Mountains or Mountain, answerable. Every single apparent flaw that you would like to spew, has been asked and answered. The problem is, you won’t accept the answer, just like a non-Christian. And why? Because it does not fit within the confines of what you want from the Bible. As for me, I am left not having to disprove anything in the Bible. I don’t need to because I know it is God’s word, I know God does not make errors. For all I know, God’s plan for giving Solomon 40,000 stalls was so I could have this discussion with you today. (Now, there is yet another reason why it isn’t an error.) The beauty in the Bible is, 2 Tim 3:16-17 says:
[16]16All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: [17] That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.
I can use it to test all doctrine. I can use it to shine my light right into the dark. Things of the dark would rather it be dark. Things of the dark do not like to be revealed. The good news is the light is constant and can’t be extinguished and things of the dark, well they often scurry back to where they came.
{as an aside: if you would like the exercise in logical fallacies again, I’ll be happy to respond to your countless claims, but I’m pretty sure the arguments are without fault}.
For all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.