LDS: Is the name "Nephi" a derivative of "Nephilim"?

[MGLechner]

Those kinds of “proofs” never convert anyone. They only way you can really know the Book of Mormon is true is by the testimony of the Holy Ghost.

Your proof is really no proof at all.

Back to the Original Topic…
Can you provide any commentaries on the origins of the name, “Nephi?” Has any Mormon scholar (Hugh Nibley comes to mind) or Church authority (Bruce McConkie, for example. And yes, I know he is deceased) offered any papers or books on the names in the Book of Mormon? And don’t give me a link that lists the names. I want a scholarly study of the names. Please and Thank you.

 

[Esdra]

Your proof is really no proof at all.

Back to the Original Topic…
**Can you provide any commentaries on the origins of the name, “Nephi?” Has any Mormon scholar (Hugh Nibley comes to mind) or Church authority (Bruce McConkie, for example. And yes, I know he is deceased) offered any papers or books on the names in the Book of Mormon? ** And don’t give me a link that lists the names. I want a scholarly study of the names. Please and Thank you.

Hi

but actually, this’d also interest me. Are there scientific papers or books about the names used in the BoM?

Esdra

 

[RebeccaJ]

Your proof is really no proof at all.

Back to the Original Topic…
Can you provide any commentaries on the origins of the name, “Nephi?” Has any Mormon scholar (Hugh Nibley comes to mind) or Church authority (Bruce McConkie, for example. And yes, I know he is deceased) offered any papers or books on the names in the Book of Mormon? And don’t give me a link that lists the names. I want a scholarly study of the names. Please and Thank you.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nephi#Etymology_of_Nephi

The origin of the name Nephi is uncertain, and disputed. As non-Mormon scholars view the Book of Mormon as a work of fiction, and do not recognize Nephi as a historical figure, the predominant scholarly view is that the name was selected or coined by Joseph Smith, Jr. Based on a non-religious or secular perspective, hypotheses for the name’s origin include:

• its appearance as a geographic name in the Apocrypha;[41][42]
• the shortening of two personal names Nephish and Nephishesim in the Authorized King James Version,[43]
• a reference to the nephilim ( נְפִילִים ), who are the mythical half-immortal “giants” described in Genesis;[44] The name means “fallen ones.”[45][46][47]
• a reference to the work Nephiomaoth, which “was one of the magic names of God in early Christian Gnosticism”[44]
• or the term Nephes, which is a Kabbalistic term for a ghost that wanders around sepulchers.[48]

Religious Mormon scholars generally believe that the Book of Mormon is historical, and therefore have proposed etymologies consistent with that view. For example, Mormon scholar John Gee theorizes that Nephi is a Hebrew form of the Egyptian name Nfr. In Phoenician and Aramaic inscriptions of Egyptian names containing nfr, the nfr element is rendered npy, and the closely related Hebrew language would presumably transcribe the name the same way.[49] Hugh Nibley has suggested that the name Nephi is related to the Egyptian Nehri. Some Mormon scholars have proposed that the name Nephi is related to the Hebrew word nephesh (נֶפֶש), which literally means the “complete life of a being” though it is usually used in the sense of “living being” (breathing creature). Psyche is the equivalent New Testament Greek word from which the English word soul is only translated. In the Greek Septuagint nephesh is mostly translated as psyche (ψυχή). Other Mormon scholars propose that the term is a variant of the Arabic and Hebrew words for prophet: “Nabi”.citation needed

[49] references: “A Note on the Name Nephi”, which mentions various Mormon theories include that of Hugh Nibley.

 

[zerinus]

Your proof is really no proof at all.

Back to the Original Topic…
Can you provide any commentaries on the origins of the name, “Nephi?” Has any Mormon scholar (Hugh Nibley comes to mind) or Church authority (Bruce McConkie, for example. And yes, I know he is deceased) offered any papers or books on the names in the Book of Mormon? And don’t give me a link that lists the names. I want a scholarly study of the names. Please and Thank you.

Nothing serious that I am aware of; and more importantly, is it not something that I am particularly interested in or concerned about. The Book of Mormon has far greater interest for me than the origin of the word Nephi.

 

[Esdra]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nephi#Etymology_of_Nephi

[49] references: “A Note on the Name Nephi”, which mentions various Mormon theories include that of Hugh Nibley.

Thank you, very interesting!

Esdra

 

[zerinus]

And you buy that?

Absolutely!

 

[Esdra]

Absolutely!

Of course you do, otherwise you wouldn’t be LDS!

Did you know that members of the Community of Christ don’t have to believe in the historicity of the BoM or in the BoM in general to become a member?

Esdra

 

[MGLechner]

According to the Book of Mormon, the Brass Plates of Laban was written in Egyptian script, not in Hebrew. That means that it was written with the Egyptian alphabet, not language. The language was Hebrew, but the script used to write it with was Egyptian; and apparently Egyptian was a language that was studied by educated Jews at that time. The Book of Mormon people had become familiar with the Egyptian script (not language) through studying the Brass Plates, and had adapted that script to create a kind of shorthand in order to condense their writings on metal plates, to which they gave the name of “reformed Egyptian,” and that is how the Book of Mormon was written in order to be preserved.

So, if I understand the story correctly, the so-called “Brass Plates of Laban” were still in the Holy Land before the Jews fled for the Americas. And that Father Lehi commissioned his sons (Nephi amongst them) to retrieve the plates from the hands of Laban. Is this correct? So while all other sacred texts at the time were written in Hebrew or its derivative, Aramaic…this particular group of Jews were writing on plates (instead of parchment) and the language they chose to write with was “Reformed Egyptian?” Was this considered a “sacred language?” Is there any evidence (other than a possible translation) wherein the Jews wrote the scriptures using any form of Egyptian?

 

[Esdra]

So, if I understand the story correctly, the so-called “Brass Plates of Laban” were still in the Holy Land before the Jews fled for the Americas. And that Father Lehi commissioned his sons (Nephi amongst them) to retrieve the plates from the hands of Laban. Is this correct? So while all other sacred texts at the time were written in Hebrew or its derivative, Aramaic…this particular group of Jews were writing on plates (instead of parchment) and the language they chose to write with was “Reformed Egyptian?” Was this considered a “sacred language?” Is there any evidence (other than a possible translation) wherein the Jews wrote the scriptures using any form of Egyptian?

Reformed Egyptian is (as mentioned before by our LDS friends) NOT a lanuage but a writing system, just like Latin letters.
So the “Plates” are written in Hebrew but in “Reformed Egyptian”.

The story how Nephi and his brothers obtained the plates of Brass are also correct.
You can read the story here: 1 Ne 3 and 1 Ne 4.

Esdra

 

[RebeccaJ]

Who translated the plates of Laban? lol.

 

[Esdra]

Who translated the plates of Laban? lol.

As far as I got to know that the plates of Laban didn’t need to be translated, as they were written in Hebrew, using the writing-system “Reformed Egyptian” (I guess.)

And as Nephi’s & Co mother tongue was Hebrew, that didn’t need to be translated.

In the BoM you can find abridgments of the plates of Laban (plates of brass). As in 2 Nephi Chapter 2 ff.

Esdra

PS: To my LDS friends, please feel free to correct me if I tell nonsense! You certainly know better about the BoM than I do.

 

[zerinus]

Originally Posted by Esdra
Of course you do, otherwise you wouldn’t be LDS!

Did you know that members of the Community of Christ don’t have to believe in the historicity of the BoM or in the BoM in general to become a member?

Esdra

Yes, but who cares? They are not us, and we are not them!

 

[Esdra]

Yes, but who cares? They are not us, and we are not them!

I know. 'Though you share part of your history.

 

[zerinus]

So, if I understand the story correctly, the so-called “Brass Plates of Laban” were still in the Holy Land before the Jews fled for the Americas. And that Father Lehi commissioned his sons (Nephi amongst them) to retrieve the plates from the hands of Laban. Is this correct?

Yes.

So while all other sacred texts at the time were written in Hebrew or its derivative, Aramaic…this particular group of Jews were writing on plates (instead of parchment) and the language they chose to write with was “Reformed Egyptian?”

There was no “group” and no “reformed Egyptian” at that time. The Brass Plates of Laban were written in Hebrew, but but with (real) Egyptian script. “Reformed Egyptian” is something that the Nephrites themselves developed later on in their history as a kind of shorthand for writing Hebrew on metal plates. As to whether writing on plates by the Jews at that time was a common practice or not I wouldn’t know. But according to the Book of Mormon the Brass Plates were written in Egyptian script on plates kept by Laban, which I believe to be a true story. Whether that was a common practice among the Jews at that time I wouldn’t know.

Was this considered a “sacred language?” Is there any evidence (other than a possible translation) wherein the Jews wrote the scriptures using any form of Egyptian?

There is nothing in the Book of Mormon to suggest that it was considered some kind of “sacred” language. Apparently the reason why it was used was because it enabled them to condense a lot of writing in a small space, which would have been useful for writing on metal plates. The Egyptian script used would presumably been Hieratic, not Hieroglyphic.

The Book of Mormon tells us that Lehi was able to read Egyptian, thus read the plates, which implies that Egyptian was studied by educated Jews at that time. That is not such a far-fetched idea, given that Egypt was renowned at that time for its wisdom and esoteric knowledge.

 

[Esdra]

Quote:
Originally Posted by MGLechner View Post
So, if I understand the story correctly, the so-called “Brass Plates of Laban” were still in the Holy Land before the Jews fled for the Americas. And that Father Lehi commissioned his sons (Nephi amongst them) to retrieve the plates from the hands of Laban. Is this correct?

zerinus: Yes.

Actually no! They fled in the beginning into the wilderness. Got the plates of brass, went again into the wilderness and then fled for the Americas!

Esdra

 

[zerinus]

Reformed Egyptian is (as mentioned before by our LDS friends) NOT a lanuage but a writing system, just like Latin letters.
So the “Plates” are written in Hebrew but in “Reformed Egyptian”.

The Brass Plates of Laban was written in Hebrew, but with real Egyptian script. “Reformed Egyptian” was developed by the Nephites later on in their history as a kind of shorthand for writing Hebrew.

 

[Esdra]

The Brass Plates of Laban was written in Hebrew, but with real Egyptian script. “Reformed Egyptian” was developed by the Nephites later on in their history as a kind of shorthand for writing Hebrew.

Yes, in the meantime I know! Thanks.

What do you say? Am I a good LDS-apologist?

Esdra

 

[zerinus]

Actually no! They fled in the beginning into the wilderness. Got the plates of brass, went again into the wilderness and then fled for the Americas!

Esdra

Didn’t quite get that. What MGLechner had said was generally speaking correct.

 

[zerinus]

Yes, in the meantime I know! Thanks.

What do you say? Am I a good LDS-apologist?

Esdra

Yep, you are getting there. You will make a very fine Mormon one day!

 

[Jerusha]

Yes, in the meantime I know! Thanks.

What do you say? Am I a good LDS-apologist?

Esdra

:yup: A very sneaky one. because people don’t know which side you are on. Unlike another poster who pretends to not be LDS.