LDS: King Follett Sermon - WOW! WOW! WOW!

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why_me said:
I can not say that god the father when a man had the book of mormon with a record of the nephites and lamanites. This is what I meant. God would have gone through his own process and not ‘mormon’ teachings.
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oh, well that clears it up, doesn’t it

it’s all nonsense, **God the Father was never and still is not a man
**
 
RebeccaJ said:
God doesn’t trick people.
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Some would claim that Eve needed to eat the fruit and that satan made the mistake of offering it since he was fulfilling god’s plan of salvation.

To stretch the imagination a little, we can conclude that satan is pretty angry that he screwed up by tempting Eve with the fruit and we are still feeling this anger all around us.
 
RebeccaJ said:
oh, well that clears it up, doesn’t it

it’s all nonsense, God the Father was never and still is not a man
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We will find out when we die. But it really doesn’t matter anyway. What matters is our salvation. We need to keep our eye on the ball and not stray from it.
 
why_me said:
Some would claim that Eve needed to eat the fruit and that satan made the mistake of offering it since he was fulfilling god’s plan of salvation.

To stretch the imagination a little, we can conclude that satan is pretty angry that he screwed up by tempting Eve with the fruit and we are still feeling this anger all around us.
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yes whyme, I know that mormons believe Satan is God’s son and that God was using his son Satan to trick Eve into going against His own commandments

MORE NONSENSE

satan is not angry at the fall of man, more like demon party time

Jesus Christ, your GOD, put an end to that.
 
why_me said:
We will find out when we die. But it really doesn’t matter anyway. What matters is our salvation. We need to keep our eye on the ball and not stray from it.
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Certainly does matter. It is the determining factor of whether or not you are following the Truth or a lie.
 
rmcmullan said:
That’s interesting. I’ve been a Mormon for at least the past twenty years and I’ve never been taught that in Sunday School. I do believe this is a teaching that has been “shelved”. Parts of what you mention are in the PoGP but the part about Elohim being exalted from a man to a God are not. The King Follet discourse is about all we have on it and it’s not official doctrine, has not been added to the D&C or PoGP. I assume this was done with a purpose.

So it’s difficult for us to either explain or defend this doctrine without any kind of official teaching. Personally I like the idea (of eternal progression) very much. You can call it a heresy if you like. You can call any teaching that doesn’t comport to Catholic Catechism a heresy for all I care. That only means we’re not Catholics and so what?
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Ok but what about the Star Kolob, you were never taught that in Sunday School? I first learned that in seminary, that God lives on a Planet named Kolob. You’re right, it was in the Book of Abraham in the PoGP. I can testify that the two biggest things that lead me away from the Mormon faith was this teaching about God being an exhaulted man and that there are multiple gods, and the biggest was the secret temple ceremonies. Those two lead me to the Catholic Faith where I am happier and feel comfortable.
 
why_me said:
There were no mormon teachings when god was once a man. Mormon teachings came from the bible, book of mormon and other canonized doctrine. Who can say just what god was taught and what he had to go through as a man.
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So Mormonism is a polytheistic religion than?
 
Tsuzuki said:
“Occult” is simply a label placed on what is unknown or hard to see, while orthodoxy, by its very nature, is dependent on clarity. There is nothing wrong with either one, as long as they are taken for what they are. Plumb the depths of the unknown while building on the foundation of the known. This is reasonable to me.
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Thesaurus

occult

noun
his interest in the occult THE SUPERNATURAL, the paranormal, supernaturalism, magic, black magic, witchcraft, sorcery, necromancy, wizardry, the black arts, occultism, diabolism, devil worship, devilry, voodoo, hoodoo, white magic, witchery, mysticism; rare theurgy.

adjective

  1. *]occult powers SUPERNATURAL, magic, magical, mystical, mystic, psychic, preternatural, paranormal transcendental; Kabbalistic, hermetic.
    *]the typically occult language of the time ESOTERIC, arcane, recondite, abstruse, secret; obscure, incomprehensible, impenetrable, puzzling, perplexing, mystifying, mysterious, enigmatic.

    :coffeeread:
 
Tsuzuki said:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theurgy#Christian_theurgy
"Some regard the Roman Catholic mass as a form of theurgy, in which the being of Christ is called down into the Host and hence into the communicant. By a broader interpretation of the term, the mass could be considered theurgy in the sense that it contributes to the divinization of the participants."
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:rolleyes:

You still haven’t answered the questions posed to you earlier.

What exactly is a “Mormon rite Catholic occultist”???

Are you ashamed of your Mormonism?
 
theurgy–American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language
  1. Divine or supernatural intervention in the affairs of man
  2. The performance of miracles with supernatural assistance
  3. Magic performed supposedly with aid of beneficent spirits, as practiced by Neo-Platonists
Not withstanding the known accuracy of Wikipedia 😉 thought you all would want an actual definition instead of just an “opinion piece”
 
why_me said:
I am not sure what exactly was the gift of shorthand when that sermon was given by JS. I am sure that it is accurate up to a point. But I wanted to show that it was not taken directly from the sermon by JS. It was an account of what was said and not what was said by JS with paper in hand.
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The LDS magazine says:
Longhand notes of the discourse were made by Willard Richards, Wilford Woodruff, Thomas Bullock, and William Clayton.
It even mentions well respected Mormons who took these notes. I’m not sure who most of these men are, but I know Woodruff is important.
rmcmullan said:
That’s interesting. I’ve been a Mormon for at least the past twenty years and I’ve never been taught that in Sunday School. I do believe this is a teaching that has been “shelved”. Parts of what you mention are in the PoGP but the part about Elohim being exalted from a man to a God are not. The King Follet discourse is about all we have on it and it’s not official doctrine, has not been added to the D&C or PoGP. I assume this was done with a purpose.

So it’s difficult for us to either explain or defend this doctrine without any kind of official teaching. Personally I like the idea (of eternal progression) very much. You can call it a heresy if you like. You can call any teaching that doesn’t comport to Catholic Catechism a heresy for all I care. That only means we’re not Catholics and so what?
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This is another perfect example of what I’m talking about. On one hand the Mormon really accepts these doctrines, but at the same time they want to downplay King Follett to “opinion” status. All this in spite of the fact Smith was clear he was speaking in the capacity of a prophet with direct inspiration of the Holy Spirit. The Mormon cannot condemn Smith for what he said, yet a strong attempt must be made to downplay the ramifications and implications of such teachings.
 
Tsuzuki said:
I’m not after your respect, but I didn’t join under false pretenses.
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Well, we know you are a liar on these forums. We also know that you are cruel, especially to to the emotionally vulnerable.

No one believes that anything you say is sincere. You make too many contradictory and nonsensical statements. You clearly have an exceptionally poor understanding of Catholic teachings.

The fact that you are involved in a practice associated with Devil worship is a very serious matter. If you really did sincerely join the Church, you would have ceased this activity and repudiated it. A good Catholic cannot call upon the Devil or spirits to do magic. Another name for “chaos magic” is witchcraft. That is an offense that normally results in excommunication.

That alone leads me, and clearly others, to believe that if you really did join the Church, you did so under false pretenses.

Your behavior on this forum is more consistant with a practitioner of the dark arts, which you claim to do, than a new Catholic looking to learn more about the Church.
 
Tsuzuki said:
You don’t think that knowing the nature of psychosis can help prevent or alleviate a psychotic episode? Though, if anything, I think that paradigm switching would have more to do with ADHD than with a psychosis.
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Not based on your example.
 
Tsuzuki said:
You don’t think that knowing the nature of psychosis can help prevent or alleviate a psychotic episode? Though, if anything, I think that paradigm switching would have more to do with ADHD than with a psychosis.
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Cognitive dissonance and suspension of belief are siblings. Not saying that is negative, as both are experienced by every person, every day. You just chase after it, like has deep meaning.

Nope. Just a normal function of your gray and white cells. And, the kicker is, while you believe you’ve got it all under control, you don’t.

bwahahahahahaha, says your brain.
 
RebeccaJ said:
Cognitive dissonance and suspension of belief are siblings. Not saying that is negative, as both are experienced by every person, every day. You just chase after it, like has deep meaning.

Nope. Just a normal function of your gray and white cells. And, the kicker is, while you believe you’ve got it all under control, you don’t.

bwahahahahahaha, says your brain.
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I cant tell if Tsuzuki is doing this on purpose or if there is something wrong upstairs. :hypno:
 
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