LDS: King Follett Sermon - WOW! WOW! WOW!

  • Thread starter Thread starter Catholic_Dude
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Nordar said:
That’s what I would like to know! why make God less that what he is? It just boggles the mind:)
Click to expand...
The Mormon god is very small. This smallness pervades all of Mormon thinking. Popular LDS scholar, BYU professor and author W. Cleon Skousen put it this way:
“Through modern revelation we learn that the universe is filled with vast numbers of intelligences, and we further learn that Elohim is God simply because all of these intelligences honor and sustain Him as such…since God ‘acquired’ the honor and sustaining influence of ‘all things’ it follows as a corollary that if He should ever do anything to violate the confidence or ‘sense of justice’ of these intelligences, they would promptly withdraw their support, and the ‘power’ of God would disintegrate…‘He would cease to be God’” (The First 2,000 Years, pp. 355-356).
Click to expand...
 
Hello everybody. I was once LDS, for about 2 years. I agree with those that say Smith was either insane or on the ragged edge. I also agree with those that say someone needs to be born onto the “church” to believe their doctrines and covenants. But a person can also be lead into them if that person, like me, were really lost and searching for the real Christ. I was brought in by some very lovung people and friends. If you forgive the phrase I was hit by a love bomb. Then the really wacky stuff is keep from converts for a very long time. One is brought along very slowly, carefully and lovingly. You are feed this stuff very slowly it is very similair to brainwashing/indoctrination. Since I did have some more orthodox teachings I began to question the elders and the “living prophet”. It was not long before I was brought before the Stake Presidents council questioned and eventually excommunicated. I found the one true church a few years later. I thank God everyday for that .
(ps: if you want nutty read Brigham Young)
 
PaulDupre said:
The Mormon god is very small. This smallness pervades all of Mormon thinking. Popular LDS scholar, BYU professor and author W. Cleon Skousen put it this way:
Click to expand...
“Through modern revelation we learn that the universe is filled with vast numbers of intelligences, and we further learn that Elohim is God simply because all of these intelligences honor and sustain Him as such…since God ‘acquired’ the honor and sustaining influence of ‘all things’ it follows as a corollary that if He should ever do anything to violate the confidence or ‘sense of justice’ of these intelligences, they would promptly withdraw their support, and the ‘power’ of God would disintegrate…‘He would cease to be God’” (The First 2,000 Years, pp. 355-356).
Click to expand...
I always knew Skousen was nuts, even when I was Mormon. I have to admit this is the only time I have ever read a Mormon express that opinion about God being sustained by other intelligences. Skousen was a John Birch Society type – my guess is he had concocted this idea out of some misguided idea that heaven was somewhat run like American constitutional govermnent. I don’t know why Skousen wouldn’t have just understood that it was beyond God’s being to depend upon anything else for His existence as God.
 
WyomingBob said:
Hello everybody. I was once LDS, for about 2 years. I agree with those that say Smith was either insane or on the ragged edge. I also agree with those that say someone needs to be born onto the “church” to believe their doctrines and covenants. But a person can also be lead into them if that person, like me, were really lost and searching for the real Christ. I was brought in by some very lovung people and friends. If you forgive the phrase I was hit by a love bomb. Then the really wacky stuff is keep from converts for a very long time.
Click to expand...
I have often come across the phrase ‘love bomb’ on this site. And yet, I have no idea why it is used. When mormons meet someone new attending their meetings should they behave coldly and detached or should they be welcoming and friendly? I think welcoming and friendly. And I must say, that this world would be a better place if people would give each other love bombs more often.

Also, new members are generally put into a gospel essential class but they are free to attend any sunday school class they want and if they wish to attend the gospel doctrine they are most welcome.
 
AMDGtoo said:
Why in the world would God need further glory when He is already has all glory? Wow! I never realized that the Mormon god is so lacking–not omiscent, not omnipresent, needing more of glory so we have to presume that he’s not majestic either, unable to understand the creatures that he created.
Click to expand...
Here is the problem: God does not have all the glory in the catholic faith, but Christ does. And it is here that the difference is between mormonism and catholicism. For mormons, heavenly father has a central role. But for catholics, the central role is found in Christ.

Some scholars have claimed that christian faiths have developed a cult of personality around christ. But the mormons can not be lumped within those faiths. Their central focus is Heavenly Father with Christ having a special role in a human being’s salvation.

And so, for mormons heavenly father is certainly a omnipresent god and his role is stressed in the lds faith more than in most other christian faiths.
 
why_me said:
Here is the problem: God does not have all the glory in the catholic faith, but Christ does. And it is here that the difference is between mormonism and catholicism. For mormons, heavenly father has a central role. But for catholics, the central role is found in Christ.

Some scholars have claimed that christian faiths have developed a cult of personality around christ. But the mormons can not be lumped within those faiths. Their central focus is Heavenly Father with Christ having a special role in a human being’s salvation.

And so, for mormons heavenly father is certainly a omnipresent god and his role is stressed in the lds faith more than in most other christian faiths.
Click to expand...
In Christianity the Father is God, the Holy Spirit is God and Jesus is God. Three persons, yet one, and only one God.

Mormons don’t believe this. There’s the difference.
 
Wow o wow - Is this for real? "“Through modern revelation we learn that the universe is filled with vast numbers of intelligences, and we further learn that Elohim is God simply because all of these intelligences honor and sustain Him as such…since God ‘acquired’ the honor and sustaining influence of ‘all things’ it follows as a corollary that if He should ever do anything to violate the confidence or ‘sense of justice’ of these intelligences, they would promptly withdraw their support, and the ‘power’ of God would disintegrate…‘He would cease to be God’”

And someone BELIEVES that God is sustained by the “powers” who assent to His being God? And if they withdraw their support for Him, He’ll disintegrate?

Ummmmmmmmmmm…I think they need to analyze these statements based upon modern psychology and then they might be in for a REAL revelation! Place some guy in the place of the god they made, and wham! There you have it, some guy leading these folks only has power as long as these folks following him have given their assent to his power. If they withdraw their assent to him as leader, he loses his power!

Ummmm…or is it me? And it is this assent of these folks to continue to be misled that gives the Mormon church its power!

Some psychologists would interpret any man’s desire to be God or god-like as acute megalomania. It would be interesting to find out if any persons in the field of psychology ever did an analysis of the writings of the Mormon church regards symptomology of acute metal illness and the dynamics on a group level of this.

Peace,

Gail
 
zerinus said:
Thank you. Those are all good definitions, and explain what it means to glorify God. It means to add greater honor, praise, distinction, adoration to Him.

zerinus
Click to expand...
I disagree It means that we are to acknowledge the Glory and Honor that is already His. If All glory and Honor is already Gos how can we add to it?
 
oneGODoneCHURCH said:
I disagree It means that we are to acknowledge the Glory and Honor that is already His. If All glory and Honor is already God’s how can we add to it?
Click to expand...
Exactly:thumbsup: you can’t!

What I get from reading the mormon stuff on here is that JS was a complete nut job. He decided to create a (I don’t know what to call it, it is not a religion) cult to honor him, and what he in his diminished mental capacity declared to be the truth. sad really!
 
why_me said:
Here is the problem: God does not have all the glory in the catholic faith, but Christ does. And it is here that the difference is between mormonism and catholicism. For mormons, heavenly father has a central role. But for catholics, the central role is found in Christ.

Some scholars have claimed that christian faiths have developed a cult of personality around christ. But the mormons can not be lumped within those faiths. Their central focus is Heavenly Father with Christ having a special role in a human being’s salvation.

And so, for mormons heavenly father is certainly a omnipresent god and his role is stressed in the lds faith more than in most other christian faiths.
Click to expand...
Heres the difference, mormon give all glory to a man, who they happen to call god.

whyme, when are you ever going to give up on this mormon idea of heirarchy.

The Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit are ONE God, equal in glory and power.

There is no progressing into a higher glory or power, that is mormon nonsense. God is not a man working at climbing to the top. He is God, He is the Top, He made the Top, there is nothing for Him to climb TOO.
 
PaulDupre said:
The Mormon god is very small. This smallness pervades all of Mormon thinking.
Click to expand...
I think Joseph Smith overheard some Catholics talking about the “Simplicity” of God and Smith and Mormonism simply misunderstood what was heard. 😃
 
oneGODoneCHURCH said:
I disagree It means that we are to acknowledge the Glory and Honor that is already His. If All glory and Honor is already Gos how can we add to it?
Click to expand...
So how did Jesus glorify God by taking on Himself the sins of the world? He simply acknowledged the glory that God already had? How? :confused:

zerinus
 
zerinus said:
So how did Jesus glorify God by taking on Himself the sins of the world? He simply acknowledged the glory that God already had? How? :confused:

zerinus
Click to expand...
He was giving HIS Glory to God, not adding to God’s glory, I do not get what is so hard to understand about that?🤷

How can anyone add to God’s glory? He is The Supreme, Our Maker, we did not make him. If it were not for God none of us would even be here so how on earth could we sinfull humans possibly add to his Glory? :confused:
 
1holycatholic said:
To glorify something doesn’t change the thing.
merriam-webster.com/dictionary/glorify
Your definition of glorify is erroneous.
:coffeeread:
Click to expand...
I didn’t say that it “changes” God to glorify Him. But it does add glory to Him. According to your own dictionary definition, that is what it means. Here is the primary definition:

1 a: to make glorious by bestowing honor, praise, or admiration b: to elevate to celestial glory

When you glorify God, you bestow greater honor and praise on Him. If I was honored with a medal by the President of the United States for some service that I had done to the country, that would “glorify” me, because it adds greater honor and praise on me. It doesn’t “change” me; but it adds to my honor and glory. The meaning of the word glorify does not change just because it has been applied to God. I think you have the problem of correctly understandng the meaning of that word. You seem to think that it means something different when applied to God than when it is applied to man. There is no reason to think that that is so.

zerinus
 
zerinus said:
I didn’t say that it “changes” God to glorify Him. But it does add glory to Him. According to your own dictionary definition, that is what it means. Here is the primary definition:

1 a: to make glorious by bestowing honor, praise, or admiration b: to elevate to celestial glory

When you glorify God, you bestow greater honor and praise on Him. If I was honored with a medal by the President of the United States for some service that I had done to the country, that would “glorify” me, because it adds greater honor and praise on me. It doesn’t “change” me; but it adds to my honor and glory. The meaning of the word glorify does not change just because it has been applied to God. I think you have the problem of correctly understandng the meaning of that word. You seem to think that it means something different when applied to God than when it is applied to man. There is no reason to think that that is so.

zerinus
Click to expand...
I think you have the problem of not correctly understand the meaning of The Word!
 
zerinus said:
I didn’t say that it “changes” God to glorify Him. But it does add glory to Him. According to your own dictionary definition, that is what it means. Here is the primary definition:

1 a: to make glorious by bestowing honor, praise, or admiration b: to elevate to celestial glory

When you glorify God, you bestow greater honor and praise on Him. If I was honored with a medal by the President of the United States for some service that I had done to the country, that would “glorify” me, because it adds greater honor and praise on me. It doesn’t “change” me; but it adds to my honor and glory. The meaning of the word glorify does not change just because it has been applied to God. I think you have the problem of correctly understandng the meaning of that word. You seem to think that it means something different when applied to God than when it is applied to man. There is no reason to think that that is so.

zerinus
Click to expand...
I say you’re backpedaling here. You know good and well you believe God is “progressing”…
 
truthsilence said:
I say you’re backpedaling here. You know good and well you believe God is “progressing”…
Click to expand...
Actually, I don’t. I don’t believe that God is “progressing” in the sense that He is getting wiser, or more intelligent, or more knowledgeable, or more powerful than He already is. He is already as wise, intelligent, perfect, all knowing and all powerful as He can get. But there is one sense in which He is progressing, and that is by continually adding or increasing His own glory by the work that He does.

zerinus
 
zerinus said:
I** didn’t say that it “changes” God** to glorify Him. But it does add glory to Him. According to your own dictionary definition, that is what it means. Here is the primary definition:

1 a: to make glorious by bestowing honor, praise, or admiration b: to elevate to celestial glory

When you glorify God, you bestow greater honor and praise on Him. If I was honored with a medal by the President of the United States for some service that I had done to the country, that would “glorify” me, because it adds greater honor and praise on me. It doesn’t “change” me; but it adds to my honor and glory. The meaning of the word glorify does not change just because it has been applied to God. I think you have the problem of correctly understandng the meaning of that word. You seem to think that it means something different when applied to God than when it is applied to man. There is no reason to think that that is so.
Click to expand...
I’m glad to see you finally acknowledge the immutability of God.

Of course this means you have to completely repudiate Mormonism because it is, as you have proven, a demonstrably false religion. :coffeeread:
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top