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why_me
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I don’t know, let me check and I will get back to you…:juggle:
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RebeccaJ
Guest
You are a very confused individual. Uncertain and on the fence about so many things. Apparently, even your own gender. 
Poor whyme.
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why_me
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It is interesting that you bring this up. The splinter groups are quite unsuccessful. Most have very few members. The Church of Christ is the most successful of the splinter groups with a membership of 250,000. And the rest are just a grain of sand on well sanded beach.This from a guy whose church has dozens of splinter groups, each with its own “true prophet”.
But the lds church is quite successful and it still seems to be growing. Why?
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why_me
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Life is difficult. But I think that I am a he…wait…yep, it seems so! :ehh:
Poor whyme.
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rmcmullan
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The only difference is the numbers. Instead of dozens or even scores, you have hundreds, even thousands. As for claims to divinity, everyone except the sola scriptura people claim that.This from a guy whose church has dozens of splinter groups, each with its own “true prophet”.
And I’m pretty sure the Greek Orthodox church has a better claim on being the mother bird but there were many, many splinters. The Roman Catholic church is older than the LDS church by about 800 years but they’re all just birds on the tree of Christianity.
Paul, I am guessing you have read the Book of Mormon. Let me ask your opinion: did the Nephites believe their church was divine? I almost think they didn’t. The prophets often refer to as a separate body with its own problems. In a way I am asking the old Abraham Lincoln question: it’s not a question if God is on our side–it’s are we on God’s side?
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Jerusha
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McMullan, you are almost Catholic. 
Of course, the “Nephites” were not Christian. Racism and Christianity are mutually incompatible. Why do you think Hitler abandoned any pretense at Christianity? His god was race, the whiter, the better.
Of course, the “Nephites” were not Christian. Racism and Christianity are mutually incompatible. Why do you think Hitler abandoned any pretense at Christianity? His god was race, the whiter, the better.
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AMDGtoo
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Good grief! We’ve been through this before. The Catholic Church (there is no such thing as a Roman Catholic Church–there is, however, a Latin or Roman Rite) comprises the Eastern Rites and the Latin Rite. It is one. It is nearly 2000 years old (having been founded by Jesus Himself as noted in Matthew 16:18.) The Eastern Orthodox Church shares our early history and even our early Church Councils, but broke off around 1154. And many of the Eastern original Rites that had “gone the way with the Eastern Orthodox” returned to the original Catholic Church (and some never left, but the Eastern Orthodox continues to call them the perjorative term “Uniate”.)
Might help you to get your history right.
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majick275
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how do you define success? compared to the Catholic church the LDS have even fewer “grains of sand”. I don’t see the LDS church as “successful” any more than the scientologist are. the LDS church is NOT growing either. that’s a marketing myth. the JW’s and the SDA’s are…why? does that mean they have the truth? of course not. the truth has always been here since Jesus brought it to us. now what church has been here the whole time since he did that?
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AMDGtoo
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Since you claim that the Catholic Church is only older than the LDS (which Joseph Smith founded in 1830) by 800 years, perhaps you can explain the fact that a known Catholic Miracle, the Eucharistic Miracle of Lanciano (therealpresence.org/eucharst/mir/lanciano.html ) occurred in the 8th century.
You might also need to explain the use of the word “Catholic” (referring to the Church at the time to distinguish Christ’s Church from heretical groups and letting us know that the name was already commonly understood) first appears in a letter of Ignatius of Antioch in about 110 A.D. (Jurgens, p. 25, #65).
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rmcmullan
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I’m not so sure who broke off from who. I hear conflicting accounts. I’m trying to get my head around the concept of divinity as the Catholic church sees it. Is the Catholic church divine? In a sense it is because it believes the Pope is infallible but they accept the baptism of all the people who broke off from them and for a time even the LDS who are no relation. In one sense Catholic is a universal church, in the other sense, it is those who follow the pope.
Help me out here. I’m not asking if there’s salvation outside the Catholic church, whatever rite you might be. But do you claim to be “God’s church” or just another church in an ocean of many acceptable alternatives? And if you claim divinity, how do they fall into place with the fractures in beliefs?
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Jerusha
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I wrote this yesterday for a different purpose. It may help you.
Because the Catholic Church acknowledges that all its individual members are imperfect, it has been able to course-correct and therefore thrive for the past two thousand years. Such course corrections have become easier in today’s world, with increased literacy and communication technology.
The Catholic Church is not in apostasy: The apostasy is in those people who call themselves “Christians” and worship their race or ethnicity or that of others. We are all children of the Creator, and we are all loved equally by the Creator, no matter what our race or ethnicity.
Because the Catholic Church acknowledges that all its individual members are imperfect, it has been able to course-correct and therefore thrive for the past two thousand years. Such course corrections have become easier in today’s world, with increased literacy and communication technology.
The Catholic Church is not in apostasy: The apostasy is in those people who call themselves “Christians” and worship their race or ethnicity or that of others. We are all children of the Creator, and we are all loved equally by the Creator, no matter what our race or ethnicity.
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RebeccaJ
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It is fully human and fully divine. Human, because it is us humans (fallible) that are the Body of the Church. This includes the Pope. Divine, because the Church is lead by Christ (infallible). The charism of papal infallibility is a gift of the Holy Sprit, not an attribute of the Pope himself.
The Catholic Church accepts all valid baptisms.
Church must be defined. I hear LDS say sometimes that a church is just a building. This is note the catholic view. Church is the Body of Christ, united by virtue of our baptism. Authority is given to the Church to lead the baptized. All apostolic church’s claim this authority. The Western Church recognizes the Eastern Church’s apostolic succession. They are a valid church, in schism.
Yes, the catholic (small c) Church is Christ’s Church.
The church is human (fallible). This does not mean, nor do we believe, that our human failings prevent the Holy Spirit from keeping the Church on the right path. Just as an individual struggles and wanders, so does the Church, because it is comprised of us. God guides his Church, sometimes in small nudges, sometimes with a big punch. He knows the needs of the Church and we trust that He is leading us.
Fractions occur when individuals believe they are the Pope. We (catholics) view the reformation as providing a much needed punch. Reforms were made, some very major. We don’t believe that God intended individuals to split off and create their own churches. And history has shown, it has had devastating effects as the splits come off the splits come off the splits come of the splits…creating more and more disunity. We see this as a very happy thing for the side of evil (not the people, the fractions).
Ecumenism, between the church in schism and the Reformation church’s has been a focus of the Holy See for several decades.
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mfbukowski
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Not sure where the quote came from but FYI the Catholic church does not accept LDS baptism
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AMDGtoo
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The Catholic Church is both human and divine. Because it is human, it’s members sometimes fall, repent, and with God’s help (read: Jesus’ Sacrament of Reconciliation also called Confession) continue with their journey to God. And because it is divine, it is protected by the Holy Spirit and will last forever just as Jesus said in Matthew 28:20. And we all know (or at least I hope so) that God is faithful alwaysand that does not depend on whether or not some of the members of His people are unfaithful.
BTW, I know that it was mentioned before: the Papacy is a continuing office, much like that mentioned in Isaiah 22:19-22. The Pope, the Bishop of Rome, the Servant of the Servants of Christ, a sort of “Prime Minister” or steward is only the earthly representative of Christ’s Church. He is only doing what Christ told him to do in John 21:15-17. Jesus the Davidic King is the Head of the the Catholic Church.
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RebeccaJ
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There isn’t anything personal against LDS people, just, your baptism is invalid.
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ronald_g_w
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according to an independant survey ( I think the article was in Time Mag) the LDS are the fastest growing Christian Church in the world where many of the others were actualy closing their doors. this is very evident in europe.
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scipio337
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Falun Gong is the world’s fastest growing religion. Scientology is also very popular in Europe and has around 12 million members.
Does that make them true?
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scipio337
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I would also like to see this “independent survey”.
Here is one from the Salt Lake Tribune:
Mormon myth: The belief that the church is the fastest-growing faith in the world doesn’t hold up
Here is one from the Salt Lake Tribune:
Mormon myth: The belief that the church is the fastest-growing faith in the world doesn’t hold up
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majick275
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show me the survey. this is the same MLM marketing tripe the LDS have spouted for years. it is WRONG!!!. pure numbers? catholic church easily. percentages? SDA, Assemblies of God, JW. Europe? pretty much the same (but watch out for Islam!). the LDS growth there is a real scam. asylum seekers do a quick dunk to get help and then move on. why did the LDs church downsize in europe? they have only a handful of active members there, few baptisms and dismal convert retention. compare this to evangelicals who are gaining thousands over there.
why do the LDS think it important to be the fastest growing? it’s that high pressure sales appeal born of the pyramid scheme mentality. “see, everyone is doing it”, “better hurry so you can be sealed on top tier”. i mean look at the whole sealing ordinance that transforms us all from “peers” (literal siblings who are actual offspring of elohim) to an eternal pyramid of “stepchildren” to our mortal ancestors. “be more exalted now!” is there a special bonus of additional worlds if you have your calling and election made sure now?
Please…save it for your gospel doctrine class. we deal in facts here.
sltrib.com/ci_2890645
foreignpolicy.com/story/cms.php?story_id=3835
news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4385768.stm
Stephen168
New member
How hard would it be for mormonism to accept the creed and become Christian?
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