LDS: King Follett Sermon - WOW! WOW! WOW!

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The only difference is the numbers. Instead of dozens or even scores, you have hundreds, even thousands.
Get real. Mormonism is only 178 years old and you already have many splinter groups. There seems to be a new one every year. By the time you are two thousand years old like the Catholic Church, you will have thousands of splinter groups.
 
It wasn’t very hard for me. And just about every Mormon I’ve explained the creed to agrees with it.
Wow, I didn’t know that simply explaining the Nicene Creed to Mormons would drive them out of Mormonism and into the Catholic Church. :cool:
 
tsuzuki:
It wasn’t very hard for me. And just about every Mormon I’ve explained the creed to agrees with it.
Only because the mormons have redefined the meaning of nearly every word in the creed. When you say “We believe in one God”, they will say they agree, but they have redefined “one” and “God” to have completely different meanings than what we mean when we say them.
 
. . .The church is human (fallible). This does not mean, nor do we believe, that our human failings prevent the Holy Spirit from keeping the Church on the right path. Just as an individual struggles and wanders, so does the Church, because it is comprised of us. God guides his Church, sometimes in small nudges, sometimes with a big punch. He knows the needs of the Church and we trust that He is leading us. . .
Rebecca, a brief correction: Christ transforms us from sinners into images of Himself as He brings us to ever-greater perfection by His grace. The Church, as Christ’s Body which can not be separated from Him, already has this in all its fullness (if it did not we would have no access to His perfection which flows from Him to the members); i.e., the Church is perfect, but the individual members reflect its perfection to varying degrees. The full manifestation of the Church’s perfection, of course, awaits the Parousia.
 
I don’t care so much if Catholics don’t accept Mormon baptism or not. We don’t accept yours and fair is fair. I believe the recent ruling by the RC’s was that because we do not believe that God is three beings in one, which is at the very nature of God, that we weren’t close enough in belief. Also why some people say we’re not Christian. But people say that anyway about everyone else. I don’t care, really. If I was overly sensitive, I probably wouldn’t be posting here where I’m in the minority.

More questions:
It is fully human and fully divine. Human, because it is us humans (fallible) that are the Body of the Church. This includes the Pope. Divine, because the Church is lead by Christ (infallible). The charism of papal infallibility is a gift of the Holy Sprit, not an attribute of the Pope himself
I like that fully human and fully divine part, that only makes sense. The charism of papal infallibility, well, let’s not go there yet.
Authority is given to the Church to lead the baptized. All apostolic church’s claim this authority. The Western Church recognizes the Eastern Church’s apostolic succession. They are a valid church, in schism.
Now this is the part Ihave trouble with. I believe what split the East and West rites was some matter called the filoque, a minor edit to the Nicene Creed. Now it’s a matter of what people believe and if some one wants to know what is right or wrong, what are they to think? How do you tolerate different beliefs, opposing beliefs even, and still support the other group’s claim to Apostolic Succession? And what about the Protestants? They do not even claim A.S. but I suppose they are still, in some respect, “the body of Christ”?
 
show me the survey. this is the same MLM marketing tripe the LDS have spouted for years. it is WRONG!!!. pure numbers? catholic church easily. percentages? SDA, Assemblies of God, JW. Europe? pretty much the same (but watch out for Islam!). the LDS growth there is a real scam. asylum seekers do a quick dunk to get help and then move on. why did the LDs church downsize in europe? they have only a handful of active members there, few baptisms and dismal convert retention. compare this to evangelicals who are gaining thousands over there.

why do the LDS think it important to be the fastest growing? it’s that high pressure sales appeal born of the pyramid scheme mentality. “see, everyone is doing it”, “better hurry so you can be sealed on top tier”. i mean look at the whole sealing ordinance that transforms us all from “peers” (literal siblings who are actual offspring of elohim) to an eternal pyramid of “stepchildren” to our mortal ancestors. “be more exalted now!” is there a special bonus of additional worlds if you have your calling and election made sure now?

Please…save it for your gospel doctrine class. we deal in facts here.

sltrib.com/ci_2890645

foreignpolicy.com/story/cms.php?story_id=3835

news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4385768.stm
👍

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=4192660&postcount=577
 
I don’t care, really. If I was overly sensitive, I probably wouldn’t be posting here where I’m in the minority.

I like that fully human and fully divine part, that only makes sense. The charism of papal infallibility, well, let’s not go there yet.

Now this is the part Ihave trouble with. I believe what split the East and West rites was some matter called the filoque, a minor edit to the Nicene Creed… And what about the Protestants? They do not even claim A.S. but I suppose they are still, in some respect, “the body of Christ”?
You are in the minority among LDS people. :cool:

Fully human and fully divine, through the Eucharist, sharing in the Body of Christ, becoming part of the Body of Christ. As a living organism composed of many parts… that is scriptural.

Filioque-- I think that is a very superficial point of disagreement. Semantics. I think there has not yet been unification because of simple longevity of the split, pride, and cultural differences. Really not much worth arguing about.

In some respect, yes. In error but not as serious as those of LDS. Depends mostly on the individual, and their own relationship with God.
 
what about the Protestants? They do not even claim A.S.
They can’t claim it, because when they split they didn’t even want to maintain the passing on of Apostolic Succession and so they didn’t. They may not have a priesthood stretching back to the Apostles, but they are our “separated brethren”.
 
Now this is the part I have trouble with. I believe what split the East and West rites was some matter called the filoque, a minor edit to the Nicene Creed. Now it’s a matter of what people believe and if some one wants to know what is right or wrong, what are they to think? How do you tolerate different beliefs, opposing beliefs even, and still support the other group’s claim to Apostolic Succession?
Because we are still one church, in schism. The difference in opinion regarding filoque is small, and I know RC who find nothing wrong with the Orthodox view. There are also Orthodox who don’t view this difference as small.

We all believe the Holy Spirit is one person of the Trinity. One in being. Arguing over which distinct Person sends the Holy Spirit?..it’s God. The Father is in the Son and the Son is in the Father. From the perspective of a new convert…🤷 So, I just leave myself out of those arguments.

The apostolic claim is there because the Orthodox rites can trace their authority, by laying on of hands, back to the apostles. And, we hold in common agreement on councils, prior to the schism. We have the same Sacred Traditions, same valid Sacraments, same beliefs about those Sacraments, same, same, same. We have far more in common than not.
And what about the Protestants? They do not even claim A.S. but I suppose they are still, in some respect, “the body of Christ”?
By virtue of their baptism, which is valid as it is done as the Catholic Church intends. That doesn’t mean that we don’t have doctrinal differences. We do, in some cases, very wide differences. But the essentials (found in the Credo) are the same.
 
I believe the recent ruling by the RC’s was that because we do not believe that God is three beings in one, which is at the very nature of God, that we weren’t close enough in belief.
No, we believe God is three persons in one being. Mormons believe God is three beings; or that is what I was told my Mormons in high school.
It wasn’t very hard for me. And just about every Mormon I’ve explained the creed to agrees with it.
If that is true, then you have not explained it correctly or mormonism has recently redefined their God.
 
Or it could be that misunderstanding is had on all sides. Mormons believe in three persons in one God, just as Catholics do. Nowhere in Mormon scripture does the term “three beings” appear.
You are correct. The LDS teach three distinct persons and three Gods.

Plain and Precious TruthsWe are blessed to have latter-day scripture as well as the Bible to teach us about and testify of Jesus Christ. Below are 25 truths about the Savior with corresponding scriptures and teachings of latter-day prophets.
http://smilies.vidahost.com/contrib/dvv/cwmddd.gif
 
And yet, it does make sense. For example: If god is all knowing, how can he know the trials and wonders of human life if he never experienced it?

I would much rather have a god that experienced the flesh and understands, than a god that has no idea of what it means to be human. To create a human life does not give understanding of the experience. Experience comes through experience. Hence, the wisdom of a grandmother or grandfather to their grandchildren.
Whoa, whoa, time out. I haven’t read through all the posts but I have to say to you that God created man and everything else, how can he NOT know it? That is like me saying I made dinner but I have no idea what is for dinner?
It makes no sense.
You have no idea of the creator if you thinks he doesnt know his creation.

And people…nooooooooo, God didn’t not know his creation until Jesus became a man. Noooooooooooo, God knows EVERYTHING! EVERYTHING. Sinse the beginning to the end…there is nothing left out.

You have a very small idea of God if you think there is something he doesn’t or cannot fully know.
 
Anything to exclude Mormons, I see. If they say they agree with you, they are obviously lying.

Do you apply this kind of logic to Mormon converts to Catholicism too? Because obviously, Mormons redefine the meaning of everything they learn in RCIA too.
Dude, you know full well what Paul is saying. The Mormon godhead for earth is three distinct beings, two of which are corporeal, and live on a planet near the star kolob, and one being of pure spirit. If you don’t think Mormon scripture teaches this, see Doctrine & Covenants 130:22:

“The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man’s; the Son also; but the Holy Ghost has not a body of flesh and bones, but is a personage of Spirit.”

Heavenly father, the most important of the three beings, was a mortal man who was exalted to godhood by being a good Mormon elsewhere. Mormon cosmology similarly includes countless other gods and this is simply not Christian. Jospeh Smith himself stated Christian beliefs to be an abomination.
 
Or it could be that misunderstanding is had on all sides. Mormons believe in three persons in one God, just as Catholics do. Nowhere in Mormon scripture does the term “three beings” appear.
Sorry. Feel the need to clarify. Mormons believe in three personages. And my granddaughter’s primary lesson was on my daughter’s refrigerator. All my grandchildren are taught in their LDS primary that god and Jesus (yeah, two sparate “personages”) have “flesh and bones–just like them”.
 
You are correct. The LDS teach three distinct persons and three Gods.
Thanks for the link. Yes mormons believe in three God, so they are three beings just like I was told in high school.
“They are distinct beings, but they are one in purpose and effort. They are united as one in bringing to pass the grand, divine plan for the salvation and exaltation of the children of God” (Gordon B. Hinckley, “In These Three I Believe,” Liahona and Ensign, July 2006, 8
Why do mormons on CA forum act like they are like Christians?
The mormons I knew in high school never had that desire.
 
God experienced it by coming into the world as Jesus Christ (who is God). The oneness of Father, Son and Holy Ghost is such that Jesus’ life and suffering were experienced by the entire Trinity. That’s the difference between the Christian message and the other religions in the world. God actually came here to be one of us.
Uhhh…What?!
 
And yet, it does make sense. For example: If god is all knowing, how can he know the trials and wonders of human life if he never experienced it?

I would much rather have a god that experienced the flesh and understands, than a god that has no idea of what it means to be human. To create a human life does not give understanding of the experience. Experience comes through experience. Hence, the wisdom of a grandmother or grandfather to their grandchildren.
It is man which learns through experience. God however is not a part of time and does not participate in change or mutability. God knows everything simply because He is. He does not have to experience human life to know what it is about. God does not have to do evil to know that evil is bad(as your logic would show). God simply knows. That said, God is omniscient. There is nothing that is hid from God, not even thoughts.
 
Whoa, whoa, time out. I haven’t read through all the posts but I have to say to you that God created man and everything else, how can he NOT know it? That is like me saying I made dinner but I have no idea what is for dinner?
It makes no sense.
But it does make sense. You make a dinner of something you have never tasted. You give it to guests and they love the taste. Can you make the same claim if you never tasted the food? I don’t think so. God would have no idea of human experience unless he was also in human form.

For mormons, god is a personal god because he experienced his own humanity complete with physical body. And this would make him an understanding god.
 
This Time article from 1997?time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,986794,00.html

Here is a more recent article from the SL Trib that paints another picture of LDS growth sltrib.com/lds/ci_2890645
The level of ‘hatred’ directed at mormonism will have its effect, especially on the Internet. Reading comments from supposed christians about mormonism and its evils I have to wonder just how cunning satan may be. The mormon church is a much hated church by people professing to be christian. And yet, the mormon message of loving god and obeying his commandments and keeping the body holy for the holy ghost to dwell in, seems to get the evil pumping around the lds church. In some strange way, it can show that satan is hard at work in undermining the lds church. And even on this section of the forum, the hatred is deep. The whole trinity contention is one example. To me it is comparing a macintosh apple to a Washington big red. Both are apples and in the end, it makes very little difference.

But in the book of mormon it does say that the church of christ will always be small. It will never be a large church. Which of course is quite strange when mormon haters seem to equate world glory to the vision of Joseph Smith. 🙂

Fact: the lds church teaches a healthy life code. It is centered in the new testament: keep the body holy, love god, preach christ, and love your follow human being.

But satan will not like that philosophy. And he will try to undermine it. Question: why so much hatred toward that message the lds church has?
 
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