LDS: King Follett Sermon - WOW! WOW! WOW!

[AMDGtoo]

What that thing with Michael the Archangel being JESUS CHRIST ?

The early Mormon church taught that Michael the Archangel was actually Adam (and Adam was god)–Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses. (Yeah, I know, the Journal of Discourses is not per-se considered “anti-Mormon”, but if I had actually been researching “anti-Mormon” sources, I would have not have missed that piece of information.) It’s not really surprising though, the Adventist movement spawned not only the Seventh Day Adventists, but also the Jehovah Witnesses (which do teach this unabashed), and the LDS (Mormon) Church. Joseph Smith was caught up in the Adventist ferver and borrowed heavily from the Adventists and Freemasonry and other sources–like the Gnostics, Arianism, and the occult.

 

[Jerusha]

The closer anyone comes to JESUS CHRIST you can be sure satan is not far away

Funny, I would rather have the comfort of knowing that the closer I get to Jesus, the less threatening the devil is.

Joseph Smith was caught up in the Adventist ferver and borrowed heavily from the Adventists and Freemasonry and other sources–like the Gnostics, Arianism, and the occult.

and Native legends, offending all in the process.

 

[Nordar]

Even so, just by us having a body would make us just a little more superior to god who has never had a body. For after all, I can claim that I have had something so vital that god never possessed: a body.

Huh? are you serious? because we have a body we are superior to God. How is it even possible for us to be superior to God? He is Our Maker, If it were not for God WE would not even exist, so how in the world can we be superior? You say you are Catholic, what Catholic believes that idiocy?

 

[Lisa44]

But it does make sense. You make a dinner of something you have never tasted. You give it to guests and they love the taste. Can you make the same claim if you never tasted the food? I don’t think so. God would have no idea of human experience unless he was also in human form.

For mormons, god is a personal god because he experienced his own humanity complete with physical body. And this would make him an understanding god.

There’s only one problem with this, you are comparing God to yourself. You think because you need to experience things to learn that God is the same way. Who said God was like a man? How is it you think God is like a man? (because your religion tells you men become Gods therefore God=Man). Can a man create the universe? You should humble yourself methinks. And quit thinking of God like you think of a man.

God is a personal God for Catholics too, but not because he was a man or because he sent Jesus who experienced life and suffering. Jesus came for US, not because God had need of it.

I know this point has been repeated over and over in this thread and you don’t understand it or, you prefer to reject it.

 

[Lisa44]

you may have made dinner but you do not know what it tastes like, I am just splitting hairs.

Pretty much And if I have some idea what my dinner tastes like you can imagine a perfect God knows EXACTLY what his creation is like.

 

[scipio337]

I don’t see any wiggle room on this post.

That’s because you’re inserting your personal beliefs and turning it into something it has never meant to any people, and at any time.

Historical context is fun. But of course, it can’t beat your “testimony”. DNA from Native Americans from Siberia? No problem! Testimony. No pre Columbian metallurgy, horses, etc? No problem! Testimony. No historical majority belief in Judaism that G*d has a body? No problem! Testimony.

 

[ronald_g_w]

Are you LDS? Your profile is empty.

You are the second person to ask, forgive me but how do i find my profile so I can fill it in. Yes I am LDS

 

[Catholic_Dude]

whyme is a he.

Ooops, my bad, I guess my only option here is to say:
Milk before meat!

 

[ronald_g_w]

The early Mormon church taught that Michael the Archangel was actually Adam (and Adam was god)–Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses. (Yeah, I know, the Journal of Discourses is not per-se considered “anti-Mormon”, but if I had actually been researching “anti-Mormon” sources, I would have not have missed that piece of information.) It’s not really surprising though, the Adventist movement spawned not only the Seventh Day Adventists, but also the Jehovah Witnesses (which do teach this unabashed), and the LDS (Mormon) Church. Joseph Smith was caught up in the Adventist ferver and borrowed heavily from the Adventists and Freemasonry and other sources–like the Gnostics, Arianism, and the occult.

If we understand the pluarity of gods we will understand what was taught. Yes Michael the Archangel is he who is refered to as the ancient of days being Adam. If we understand who Michael was we will see that he is a god, he sat in the council of the gods in the planning of the creation of this earth. by his diligence and obedience in the pre-existance, as one of the spirit sons of God, he attained a stature and power second only to that of Christ. The Adam God Theory re Brigham Young is consistant with the Gospel of Jesus Christ as Michael is the presiding High priest under JESUS CHRIST. Michael / Adam are not GOD they are a god in the big picture. We do not worship adam only God the Father an JESUS CHRIST the Son. Lets turn to a scripture and see who Adam is and his Roll.
Dan 7: 9-14
9 ¶ I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.
10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.
11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.
12 As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.
13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.
14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.

I think we can see what Brigham is saying when we understand the above

 

[PaulDupre]

The bible does not say that the Ancient of Days is Adam. That is an invention of Mormonism. The Jews and Christians have always understood the Ancient of Days to be God Himself. The title “Ancient of Days” is meant to connote Gods eternal nature.

So your whole argument is moot.

 

[ronald_g_w]

That’s because you’re inserting your personal beliefs and turning it into something it has never meant to any people, and at any time.

Historical context is fun. But of course, it can’t beat your “testimony”. DNA from Native Americans from Siberia? No problem! Testimony. No pre Columbian metallurgy, horses, etc? No problem! Testimony. No historical majority belief in Judaism that G*d has a body? No problem! Testimony.

You obviously did not read the post but I supose you were trying to give us some meat, sorry I did not get it.

 

[ronald_g_w]

The bible does not say that the Ancient of Days is Adam. That is an invention of Mormonism. The Jews and Christians have always understood the Ancient of Days to be God Himself. The title “Ancient of Days” is meant to connote Gods eternal nature.

So your whole argument is moot.

Then if that is the case you have given God a body and given Him a finite discription when he is infinite.?

 

[scipio337]

Then if that is the case you have given God a body and given Him a finite discription when he is infinite.?

Figurative language, like all many places in the OT and NT.

You’d be hard pressed to find a Rabbi who agrees with either of your interpretation. When was the Jewish “Great Apostacy”?

I did read the previous post, which is why I addressed the issue that it isn’t, nor has it ever been, a majority Jewish belief.

 

[jimmy]

Even so, just by us having a body would make us just a little more superior to god who has never had a body. For after all, I can claim that I have had something so vital that god never possessed: a body.

Perhaps one of the greatest problems satan has is the fact that we have a body. Something that he has never possessed and was denied to possess. Thus the amount of time he puts into destroying our physical temples (our bodies), as described in the new testament.

And god does allow evil and yes, he knows that it is bad. He sees its outcome. There are a set of rules for us to follow. When we stray from those rules as we will, evil can ensue. But such is the nature of free agency.

You having a body means you are mutable. It does not mean you are greater than God but lesser. having a body does not make you better than not having a body. All it means is that you were created which means you are less than what was uncreated(or eternal), which is God.

You might as well reject Christ’s blessing of the poor because they have less than the rich and therefore are inferior to the rich. But then again Christ says God does not show favor. James makes this point clear regarding the rich.

 

[1holycatholic]

Anyone can write an article in an official LDS publication. That doesn’t make it true or binding or even official teaching. It’s just a magazine article.

The official LDS website is rampant with polytheism which is absolutely incompatible with Christianity. It isn’t limited to the magazine, it is in the doctrine and covenants.
:coffeeread:

 

[RC_Matt]

I read plurality in the following scriptures.

Ps 82:1
GOD standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods
Ps 82:6
I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are achildren of the most High.

In both of these cases, “gods” refers to the corrupt secular authorities of Israel.

John 10:34
Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

In this instance, “gods” refers to the judges of Israel.

Ps 86:8
Among the gods there is none like unto thee, O Lord; neither are there any works like unto thy works.

Same as Psalm 82

Ps 136:2
give thanks unto the God of gods: for his mercy endureth for ever.

Here, “gods” refers to secular authority and the false pagan gods.
.

1 Cor 8:5
For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)
1 Cor 8:6
But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

This whole passage states a monotheistic confession, contrasts that with polytheism, and expresses our relationship with the one God.

2 Cor 4:4
In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the flight of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

The “god of this world,” as mentioned here, refers to Satan, who tries to prevent people from receiving the Gospel.

 

[PaulDupre]

Then if that is the case you have given God a body and given Him a finite discription when he is infinite.?

No more than the bible has given God wings when it says

Ruth 2
12 The Lord render unto thee for thy work, and mayest thou receive a full reward of the Lord the God of Israel, to whom thou art come, and under whose wings thou art fled.

Psalms 16
8 From them that resist thy right hand keep me, as the apple of thy eye. Protect me under the shadow of thy wings.

Psalms 56
2 Have mercy on me, O God, have mercy on me: for my soul trusteth in thee. And in the shadow of thy wings will I hope, until iniquity pass away.

Psalms 60
5 In thy tabernacle I shall dwell for ever: I shall be protected under the covert of thy wings.

25 Psalms 62
8 Because thou hast been my helper. And I will rejoice under the covert of thy wings:

Psalms 90
4 He will overshadow thee with his shoulders: and under his wings thou shalt trust.

If you insist that God the Father has a body, then you must admit that He has wings as well. If so, you are wrong about God and man being the same species.

Context, context, context.

 

[1holycatholic]

usccb.org/nab/bible/psalms/psalm82.htm#foot3
82:6 I declare: "Gods though you be": in John 10:34 Jesus uses the verse to prove that those to whom the word of God is addressed can fittingly be called “gods.”

Follow the link to John 10:34 and the footnote for it:
usccb.org/nab/bible/john/john10.htm#v34
15 [34] This is a reference to the judges of Israel who,since they exercised the divine prerogative to judge (Deut 1:17), were called “gods”; cf Exodus 21:6, besides Psalm 82:6 from which the quotation comes.
:coffeeread:

 

[RC_Matt]

usccb.org/nab/bible/psalms/psalm82.htm#foot3
82:6 I declare: "Gods though you be": in John 10:34 Jesus uses the verse to prove that those to whom the word of God is addressed can fittingly be called “gods.”

You are correct in that Psalms 82, 86 and John 10,34 are related. They refer to the secular authorities of Israel who exercised the divine prerogative to judge and were thus called “gods.” Also related is Deuteronomy 1,17 and Exodus 21,6.

 

[1holycatholic]

That footnote refers back to this one, suggesting that both verses have a double meaning, and it makes perfect sense in relation to what the catechism teaches.

460 The Word became flesh to make us “partakers of the divine nature”:“For this is why the Word became man, and the Son of God became the Son of man: so that man, by entering into communion with the Word and thus receiving divine sonship, might become a son of God.” “For the Son of God became man so that we might become God.” “The only-begotten Son of God, wanting to make us sharers in his divinity, assumed our nature, so that he, made man, might make men gods.”

- Catechism of the Catholic Church​

Does God intend to make men corrupt judges in Israel?

I see you have stripped out the references.

CCC #460 refers to 2 Pet 1:4:
Through these, he has bestowed on us the precious and very great promises, so that through them you may come to share in the divine nature, after escaping from the corruption that is in the world because of evil desire.
Share the divine nature, not become divine.