LDS: King Follett Sermon - WOW! WOW! WOW!

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I grew up near the Seneca Indian Reservation in New York among a good sized Mormon Community. They are really the very best people you would ever want to know. There “Word of Wisdom” forbids using alcohol, tobacco and caffeine. Who can find fault in that?

Yes, they do not have, according to my Catholic understanding, a true knowledge of Jesus Christ. They may not know Jesus, but Jesus knows them for the Christian like life style.

There are hundreds of religions. Its just a different religion practiced by people of true excellance.
 
ronald_g_w said:
And you have to do it in the time frame it took JS with the level of education he had, including new propheses, taking a period of 1000 years, 100 + new names, 18 diffrent prophets with their own style of writing, it must validate the Bible, and it must all link amongst other things
While you are doing this you can not look over your note to pick up your previous days thoughts but must simply continue where you left off.

Be my guest.
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i guess you don’t realize how naive you are. you actually believe that the stuff you discuss in your priesthood lessons is somehow going to influence someone who isn’t LDS. those of us who have actually studied the bible in context with history and the beliefs of those who wrote those books will never accept the ridiculous “interpretations” of sidney rigdon that Joseph Smith proclaimed and we certainbly don’t accept the deviant rants of brigham young.

go knock on other doors…this is a catholic house and we aren’t interested in your missionary message here.
 
Tsuzuki said:
Maybe I’m wrong, but I will continue to follow my conscience. I’ll let the unbiased decide if I’m enlightened or not, and that’s neither you nor I.
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You could just explain the “Mormon Rite” catechism and put an end to all this; though, granted, that wouldn’t be any fun….
 
Tsuzuki said:
I will readily repudiate a belief that isn’t true. Whether I can do so and continue to be a Mormon is up the LDS organized body of individuals with similar religious beliefs and practices

(otherwise known as a “church” by some), not you.

The Catholic Church is infallible in faith and doctrine, not definitions and labels.

that would include the definition and labels in the context of faith and doctrine.
The beliefs of anyone other than myself are irrelevant. If I can honestly recite the creed, that is enough. I’ll let the Mormons decide if I can still be a Mormon.
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Tsuzuki said:
Show me in the catechism where I err, and I will gladly revise my position. So far, though, I’ve never encountered anything about how Mormons view baptism for the dead.
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usccb.org/catechism/text/pt2sect2.shtml#art1
Any deviance from this is an error.

As previously shown, the Catholic Church states that Mormon baptisms are not valid.

In your blog you currently claim to be Mormon, here you claim to be Catholic.

You can’t be both.
 
=Tsuzuki;4204800]Definitions and labels are too fluid for that to be possible.
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you can not have a doctrine without giveing it a name( label) and defining it.
As long as the beliefs I hold (or my interpretations of those beliefs) don’t contradict the creed, then it is possible for me to hold them while reciting the creed honestly.
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It is not possible to honestly recite the creed as your beliefs if you are stills holding to a faith that does not hold to the Creed
Mormonism was a complete reversal of the two major issues of the Protestant reformation, namely sola fide and sola scriptura.
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That maybe very well true but it also moved futher away from the truth.
Again, if these are false, then I repudiate them. Though some of those aren’t even Mormon beliefs, and others I will have to make sure I don’t inadvertently repudiate a Catholic doctrine in the process, namely theosis/deification and the sacramental nature of marriage. Baptism for the dead also seems to have a parallel in intercessory prayers for the dead.
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Al of them are belief of the LDS though many are not talked about and some are even sweep under the carpet in mixed company. Also your insistence on holding to Mormon beliefs is overtly repudiating Catholic Doctrine.
 
YipYupYep said:
I grew up near the Seneca Indian Reservation in New York among a good sized Mormon Community. They are really the very best people you would ever want to know.
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Mormons are always on their best behavior when they are around non-Mormons - they are in missionary mode. Apparently it worked on you.

Those of us who were once Mormons have seen a different view from the inside. Most of the worst people I’ve ever known have been Mormons - vicious gossips, tale-bearers, liars and cheats - and all the time they are smiling that Stepford smile.
There “Word of Wisdom” forbids using alcohol, tobacco and caffeine. Who can find fault in that?
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If they want to follow those rules, fine. But they judge and condemn those of us non-Mormons who don’t - behind our backs, of course. I would rather someone drink a cup of tea or coffee, or have a beer, or smoke a good cigar than to gossip, judge unfairly or lie about me.
 
PaulDupre said:
Mormons are always on their best behavior when they are around non-Mormons - they are in missionary mode. Apparently it worked on you.
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Are you kidding? Mormons are human beings who basically are raised to love their neighbor and obey the commandments. They are also a prayerful group of people. Now, not all are ‘perfect’ but by and large they are nice people. To claim that they are in ‘missionary mode’ is completely untrue.
 
Tsuzuki said:
I sometimes see Mormons as similar to the Samaritans, as they tend to be equally despised by mainstream Christians. If Jesus were to give his parable today, it would have probably featured a Mormon.
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Good point. I agree with you. There is a reason why there is such an attitude on this board toward mormons. It all has to do with the heart of the people who dispise mormons.
 
PaulDupre said:
If they want to follow those rules, fine. But they judge and condemn those of us non-Mormons who don’t - behind our backs, of course. I would rather someone drink a cup of tea or coffee, or have a beer, or smoke a good cigar than to gossip, judge unfairly or lie about me.
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To put a blanket ‘they’ is a gross misstatement. I don’t know a single mormon who judges people who smoke or drinks tea, coffee or alcohol. But all believe that such people who do would be far more heathier if they did not drink such things.
 
RobHom said:
Oh, really…and your source and basis for that statement would be?

This source says you are quite wrong…

landreform.org/boff2.htm

Yes, there were “Catholics” involved…gee, imagine that…on a Continent with as many Catholics as there are there…:eek: But if you take the time to read the article… you will find that “Protestants” were equally involved…and very much so.
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A poster was commenting about my soviet russia statement. The mormon church did not support Soviet Russia, nor its ideology. But of course, there were some mormons that may have been attracted to the ideology. Likewise for catholics. That was my point.
 
it did occur to me that 90% were converts and one would expect an above average crop, and a above average crop they were. I would say half native American and the rest white. Ill tell you another thing about the Mormons. They all know each other. They hang out together. On top of that, they give the church the full 10%. I once got permission to cut out dead trees for firewood on Hill Cumoreh. I knew these people.

I am an old cradle Catholic. My brother is an Ordained Catholic Missionary Priest and I am an active Third Degree Knight of Columbus. So, I am pretty familiar with our Catholic culture.

Im my judgement, the Mormons do not know who Jesus Christ is, but neither do the Muslims, the Jews, and the millions that believe in reincarnation. What about the millions that dont believe in anything. If I were to let someone live in piece and worship according to there beliefs, it would be that bunch. There okay. Trust me.

Live and let live.
 
RC_Matt said:
Dude, the origin of the book of Mormon is not the topic of this tread; and I don’t think you really want to go there or you might hear some material that is not (LDS) faith promoting. You are, of course, welcome to start a thread on that topic if you so desire.

Based on our exchange earlier, I was under the impression you came here to learn something as opposed to doing the “cyber missionary” thing. If you want to do missionary work, this is the wrong (way wrong) place for it. If you want to learn something about basic Christianity or Catholicism, and ask civil questions, they will be answered civilly and you might learn something. Nobody says you have to agree with anything we profess as Christians. Keep in mind that this is a Catholic board and if you’ve come here to proselytize you’re just wasting your time and ours.
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You changed the topic all I did was follow your line of thought which I thought was quite arrogant. I came here for references as I have gone to other sites and books etc, of other faiths so that when one is in conversation one could relate facts and not speculate, the heading caught my eye other religions on the home page and thats where I have stayed, if the comments are only one sided and I cannot express my views then yes I am in the wrong place sorry you feel uncomfortable with my point of view I got the impression that we both were here to understand truth, and bounce these ideas around. As LDS where ever their is truth we seek after these things and when we find it we claim it for ourselves. Buy the way I dought that what ever is said on this forum will convert unless the Holy Ghost plays a part in confirming a point of truth to us.
 
YipYupYep said:
On top of that, they give the church the full 10%.
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I can agree with that–they pay a full 10% of their incomes to a tax exempt organization that annually rakes in millions…even when their families’ can ill afford it. (I still remember my daughter paying a full 10% even when she could barely afford formula for her newborn.) You know, of course, that they have to pay that full 10% if they want to pass that temple interview so that they can go to their temple.

Just because an organization is able to coerce their members into giving a full 10% of their income to the organization does not make the organization’s message true.
 
YipYupYep said:
  1. I would say half native American and the rest white.
  2. Ill tell you another thing about the Mormons. They all know each other. They hang out together.
  3. I am an active Third Degree Knight of Columbus
  4. If I were to let someone live in peace and worship according to their beliefs, it would be that bunch. There okay. Trust me.
  5. Live and let live.
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  1. I cry for all Native Americans who are so ashamed of their ethnicity, and who have so lost their culture and traditions that they have joined with a bunch of people whose traditions and scripture preaches hatred against them.
  2. They hang out together because they are prohibited from associating with people who believe differently.
  3. What if the K of C changed their name to “Knights of las Casas”? Would you still be so active?
  4. In other parts of the country, they refuse to let others live in peace and worship according to their beliefs.
  5. HUNH??? Would you have told Hitler “Live and let live.” so long as he and his followers didn’t bother you?
 
AMDGtoo said:
I can agree with that–they pay a full 10% of their incomes to a tax exempt organization that annually rakes in millions…even when their families’ can ill afford it. (I still remember my daughter paying a full 10% even when she could barely afford formula for her newborn.) You know, of course, that they have to pay that full 10% if they want to pass that temple interview so that they can go to their temple.

Just because an organization is able to coerce their members into giving a full 10% of their income to the organization does not make the organization’s message true.
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Lets look at the upside. The lds church is rich. But also, all church buildings are well heated and clean. Also, all bills are paid. Now if catholics would follow the old testament and give 10%catholic schools would not be closing and the more unproductive parishes would still have all their churches. Many catholic parishes are in dire straights because of a lack of funds.

Also, mormons have this understanding that by giving 10%, the lord will bless them. And many see these blessings in their lives. But it comes from the old testament—ten percent.

You must take it up with god. 🙂
 
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