LDS Marriage

[Horton]

I’m curious about a couple of statements made on another thread so in an effort not to derail the thread I’m starting a new one.

1. Joseph Smith also taught that marriage is required to inherit Eternal Life and that the marriage relationship will continue into the next life assuming the marriage was performed by proper priesthood authority.

Those who had no opportunity to have a marriage solemnized in an LDS temple in this life will receive that blessing in the next life.

Those who purposely avoided marriage in an LDS temple in this life will not receive Eternal Life.

LDS believe that a marriage performed outside of an LDS temple ends at the death of one of the spouses.

D&C 131:1 In the celestial glory there are three heavens or degrees;

2 And in order to obtain the highest, a man must enter into this order of the priesthood [meaning the new and everlasting covenant of marriage];

3 And if he does not, he cannot obtain it.

4 He may enter into the other, but that is the end of his kingdom; he cannot have an increase

Why is marriage required to get the celestial kingdom?

What happens if an LDS male marries a woman of another faith knowing she will not change to LDS?

What happens to a woman who marries a man of another faith knowing he won’t convert?

The way I see it in the quotes above, these men & women who marry a spouse of another faith seem to be purposely avoiding marriage in the temple.

I know it is believed is the LDS that an unmarried woman will be married as a second or third or more wife of another man but does than mean the same for a woman who is married to non LDS man, the marriage ends at the death of a spouse and the woman is given to another man?

 

[zaffiroborant]

I’m curious about a couple of statements made on another thread so in an effort not to derail the thread I’m starting a new one.

Why is marriage required to get the celestial kingdom?

Because you need a mother and a father to create children, because Heavenly Father is married so in order to inherit what He has you have to be married too.

 

[jane_doe]

Why is marriage required to get the celestial kingdom?

The greatest happiness is found within a marriage that walks with God. That is the purpose of marriage here and in the eternities.

What happens if an LDS male marries a woman of another faith knowing she will not change to LDS?

What happens to a woman who marries a man of another faith knowing he won’t convert?

Answering these together because they are the same question.
Everyone has the opportunity to accept the fullness of God and walk with Him, whether that opportunity/acceptance comes in this life or the next. If for some reason one spouse walks with Christ and another refuses, then the one whom choose to follow Him must do so. He will take care of them.

The way I see it in the quotes above, these men & women who marry a spouse of another faith seem to be purposely avoiding marriage in the temple.

False.

I know it is believed is the LDS that an unmarried woman will be married as a second or third or more wife of another man but does than mean the same for a woman who is married to non LDS man, the marriage ends at the death of a spouse and the woman is given to another man?

False.

 

[NeuroTypical]

What happens if an LDS male marries a woman of another faith knowing she will not change to LDS?

What happens to a woman who marries a man of another faith knowing he won’t convert?

God knows our hearts and the future. Humans just sometimes think we know. “knowing” isn’t a word that applies here.

 

[IgnatianPhilo]

If an LDS man or woman has been unable to find a spouse and they die, is that LDS bound for a lesser heaven? Why is the highest state of being determined by one’s married state?

And I have a question for Mormons regarding Joseph Smith. He was married to at least 37 women, some of whom were married to other men. Whose wives will they be in the next life or will they be shared in the next life?

 

[jane_doe]

If an LDS man or woman has been unable to find a spouse and they die, is that LDS bound for a lesser heaven?

No one will be denied any opportunity, including the opportunity to be married, whether it happens in this life or the next. Everyone will be able to find a suitable spouse.

Why is the highest state of being determined by one’s married state?

Because a marriage that walks with God is the greatest source of joy and completion.

 

[Marie5890]

The greatest happiness is found within a marriage that walks with God. That is the purpose of marriage here and in the eternities.

.

Who says that marriage, that walks with God, is the greatest source of happiness??

 

[IgnatianPhilo]

No one will be denied any opportunity, including the opportunity to be married, whether it happens in this life or the next. Everyone will be able to find a suitable spouse.

Because a marriage that walks with God is the greatest source of joy and completion.

Is there a mormon scripture which says someone will be allowed to be married in the next life? The quote the OP gives doesn’t seem to give that option and instead presents an ultimatum of either getting married and inheriting a full afterlife or not getting married and receiving a lesser afterlife. If you wish to interpret with regards to the next life, is there anyone who upon being exposed to divine glory would deny themselves marriage in the life and choose a lesser inheritance? The text only makes sense when in the context of life on earth.

I would also contend the notion that in order to have the highest sense of completion/happiness one has to be married. Paul in Corinthians gives advice that it is good for a man not to touch a woman and only offers marriage as a concession to weakness. Paul in fact says those who marry will face many troubles and their attention is divided between their spouse and God. Completion and happiness seems rather to lie within our relationship to God rather than our relationships with others, though I am not denying their importance. Are you saying it is impossible to be happy without being married?

 

[jane_doe]

Speaking from the LDS perspective here, respectfully acknowledging that it differs from other perspectives—

Is there a mormon scripture which says someone will be allowed to be married in the next life? The quote the OP gives doesn’t seem to give that option and instead presents an ultimatum of either getting married and inheriting a full afterlife or not getting married and receiving a lesser afterlife.

God, being ultimately just, gives everyone every opportunity to complete every ordinance, either in this life or the next. Whether that ordinance is baptism, confirmation, ordination, marriage, etc. Everyone gets every opportunity, else God would be unjust. This is basic theology.

If you wish to interpret with regards to the next life, is there anyone who upon being exposed to divine glory would deny themselves marriage in the life and choose a lesser inheritance? The text only makes sense when in the context of life on earth.

Clarification here: by “in the next life” I am not talking about in Heaven. Rather, I am talking about the time between after death, through the Millennium, until the Final Judgement. During this time a person’s spirit still lives and they have the ability to make choices. They are not exposed to the fullness of God’s glory/wonder/knowledge until after the Final Judgement. And why would someone in such a state refuse God? The same reasons they do in this life.

I would also contend the notion that in order to have the highest sense of completion/happiness one has to be married.

1 Cor 11:11 Nevertheless neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord.
Gen 2:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
Matt 19:5-8

And many more verses. Man and woman were made for each other, and complete each other. They are to walk in the Lord together. This was how it was always supposed to be, Adam & Eve onward.

Completion and happiness seems rather to lie within our relationship to God rather than our relationships with others, though I am not denying their importance.

The greatest happiness is with all of the above: a marriage and family which walks with God.

Are you saying it is impossible to be happy without being married?

No.

 

[Horton]

God knows our hearts and the future. Humans just sometimes think we know. “knowing” isn’t a word that applies here.

But that is not what this says. It implies “knowing” what will happen.
*D&C 131:1 In the celestial glory there are three heavens or degrees;

2 And in order to obtain the highest, a man must enter into this order of the priesthood [meaning the new and everlasting covenant of marriage];

3 And if he does not, he cannot obtain it.

4 He may enter into the other, but that is the end of his kingdom; he cannot have an increase *

 

[jane_doe]

But that is not what this says. It implies “knowing” what will happen.
*D&C 131:1 In the celestial glory there are three heavens or degrees;

2 And in order to obtain the highest, a man must enter into this order of the priesthood [meaning the new and everlasting covenant of marriage];

3 And if he does not, he cannot obtain it.

4 He may enter into the other, but that is the end of his kingdom; he cannot have an increase *

This does not contradict what we’ve been saying.

 

[Horton]

Quote: jane_doe

Originally Posted by Horton
The way I see it in the quotes above, these men & women who marry a spouse of another faith seem to be purposely avoiding marriage in the temple.

False.

How is this false. If a person knowingly marries someone who is not LDS and therefore unable to be sealed in the Temple would be purposely avoiding a temple marriage. If I as a Catholic choose to marry a divorced man who is not Catholic and won’t seek an annulment then I am making a choice to removed myself from the Sacraments.

Originally Posted by Horton
I know it is believed is the LDS that an unmarried woman will be married as a second or third or more wife of another man but does than mean the same for a woman who is married to non LDS man, the marriage ends at the death of a spouse and the woman is given to another man?

False.

If the marriage ends at death then how does the woman get to heaven as a husband is required for a woman to get to heaven according to LDS theology?

 

[Marie5890]

1 Cor 11:11 Nevertheless neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord.
Gen 2:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
Matt 19:5-8

And many more verses. Man and woman were made for each other, and complete each other. They are to walk in the Lord together. This was how it was always supposed to be, Adam & Eve onward.

The greatest happiness is with all of the above: a marriage and family which walks with God.

None of those scriptures say that marriage is the greatest source of happiness, however. That is something you are projecting onto those scriptures.

1 Corinthians, Chap. 7- “Now concerning the thing whereof you wrote to me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman. But for fear of fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband… But I speak this by indulgence, not by commandment. For I would that all men were even as myself [unmarried]: but every one hath his proper gift from God; one after this manner, and another after that. But I say to the unmarried, and to the widows: It is good for them if they so continue, even as I…

But if any man think that he seemeth dishonoured, with regard to his virgin, for that she is above the age, and it must so be: let him do what he will; he sinneth not, if she marry. For he that hath determined being steadfast in his heart, having no necessity, but having power of his own will; and hath judged this in his heart, to keep his virgin, doth well. Therefore, both he that giveth his virgin in marriage, doth well; and he that giveth her not, doth better.”

We see that St. Paul clearly identifies the state of virginity or celibacy as a state that is better than the state of marriage. We also see this in the words of Jesus Himself:

Matthew 19: 11-12- “[Jesus] said to them: All men take not this word, but they to whom it is given. For there are eunuchs, who were born so from their mother’s womb: and there are eunuchs, who were made so by men:** and there are eunuchs, who have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven. He that can take, let him take it.”**

 

[Truth_Faith13]

No one will be denied any opportunity, including the opportunity to be married, whether it happens in this life or the next. Everyone will be able to find a suitable spouse.

Because a marriage that walks with God is the greatest source of joy and completion.

Hi Jane, I cant remember if I have asked you this already (if I have, Ive forgotten the answer) but you say that eveeyone will have the opp in this life AND the next including marriage but I thought LDS read that Bible passage about marriage in the next life to mean that while marriages from THIS life can be eternal, marriages do not occur in the next life? Or is that just after judgement? Is the spirit world different? Thanks

 

[jane_doe]

Horton: “The way I see it in the quotes above, these men & women who marry a spouse of another faith seem to be purposely avoiding marriage in the temple.”
Jane: “False.”
Horton: “How is this false.”

Jane: Horton, you are not a mind-reader. You have no way of knowing that if a LDS person chooses to marry a non-LDS person they are purposely avoiding marriage in the temple. The reality is when an LDS and non-LDS person marries it’s because of love. Just like if a Catholic marries a non-Catholic.

Horton: “I know it is believed is the LDS that an unmarried woman will be married as a second or third or more wife of another man but does than mean the same for a woman who is married to non LDS man, the marriage ends at the death of a spouse and the woman is given to another man?”
Jane: “False.”
Horton: “If the marriage ends at death then how does the woman get to heaven as a husband is required for a woman to get to heaven according to LDS theology?”

Jane: If a person’s spouse in unsuitable (such as their refusal to walk with God), then that person will later have the opportunity to find a suitable spouse. This applies for men and women.

 

[jane_doe]

Hi Jane, I cant remember if I have asked you this already (if I have, Ive forgotten the answer) but you say that eveeyone will have the opp in this life AND the next including marriage but I thought LDS read that Bible passage about marriage in the next life to mean that while marriages from THIS life can be eternal, marriages do not occur in the next life? Or is that just after judgement? Is the spirit world different? Thanks

New marriage do not occur after the Final Judgement. Before then, yes.

 

[Horton]

Speaking from the LDS perspective here, respectfully acknowledging that it differs from other perspectives—

 

[Horton]

Horton: “The way I see it in the quotes above, these men & women who marry a spouse of another faith seem to be purposely avoiding marriage in the temple.”
Jane: “False.”
Horton: “How is this false.”

Jane: Horton, you are not a mind-reader. You have no way of knowing that if a LDS person chooses to marry a non-LDS person they are purposely avoiding marriage in the temple. The reality is when an LDS and non-LDS person marries it’s because of love. Just like if a Catholic marries a non-Catholic.

Yes I’m not a mind reader but if a well catechized LDS member who knows the significance of temple marriage chooses to marry outside the faith to a spouse they know will not convert, their behavior tells me they are disregarding what they have been taught about temple marriage. The example I gave using myself and marriage is the same thing. I’m well catechized in my faith and if I choose to marry a divorced man who refuses to get an annulment would say I choose to disregard that teaching of my Church.
FYI - I would never marry a man who is not free to marry.

Horton: “I know it is believed is the LDS that an unmarried woman will be married as a second or third or more wife of another man but does than mean the same for a woman who is married to non LDS man, the marriage ends at the death of a spouse and the woman is given to another man?”
Jane: “False.”
Horton: “If the marriage ends at death then how does the woman get to heaven as a husband is required for a woman to get to heaven according to LDS theology?”

Jane: If a person’s spouse in unsuitable (such as their refusal to walk with God), then that person will later have the opportunity to find a suitable spouse. This applies for men and women

.

So a suitable spouse is an LDS spouse? If only a compliant LDS man who is married can get to heaven, this would preclude any man who isn’t LDS?

 

[jane_doe]

Yes I’m not a mind reader but if a well catechized LDS member who knows the significance of temple marriage chooses to marry outside the faith to a spouse they know will not convert, their behavior tells me they are disregarding what they have been taught about temple marriage. The example I gave using myself and marriage is the same thing. I’m well catechized in my faith and if I choose to marry a divorced man who refuses to get an annulment would say I choose to disregard that teaching of my Church.
FYI - I would never marry a man who is not free to marry.

You are incorrect in your assumptions here, but you of course are welcome to them.

So a suitable spouse is an LDS spouse?

Correct, since the LDS Church is Christ’s Church. It alone teaches the fullness of the Gospel, is lead by Christ, and has His authority. Ultimately a person cannot hold false beliefs/actions and walk completely with Christ.
(Obviously you disagree with these statements and I respect that fact. I am simply stating the LDS perspective).

If only a compliant LDS man who is married can get to heaven, this would preclude any man who isn’t LDS?

The greatest happiness and greatest walk with God lies in the LDS faith. A person who rejects the Gospel (both in this life and the next) cannot fully dwell with Him. Note: this does not mean they will be miserable.

 

[Horton]

Hi Jane, I cant remember if I have asked you this already (if I have, Ive forgotten the answer) but you say that eveeyone will have the opp in this life AND the next including marriage but I thought LDS read that Bible passage about marriage in the next life to mean that while marriages from THIS life can be eternal, marriages do not occur in the next life? Or is that just after judgement? Is the spirit world different? Thanks

The whole issue of eternal marriage is very complicated. Regardless of how some may want to soften the reality in it’s simplest form only men with a temple marriage in this life will get to heaven. A woman’s only path to heaven is through a man, they are unable to get to heaven without being married to a LDS man.

What it boils down to is women in an unsuitable marriage, such as non temple marriage, will be married to a LDS man as a second or third or more wife. (The man’s earthly wife is the first wife) As I quoted in the OP men who are not married can not achieve the Kingdom of God.

You mentioned in another thread your husband is an atheist. I would think you would factor in this information in your choice.