LDS Marriage

[Horton]

What a nightmare. Hard to believe Mormons can’t see the absurdity of this whole mess.

Absolute chaos. A woman is sealed to her father as a child, but then sealed to her husband when she marries. Her children are sealed to her, but then sealed to their spouses when they marry…and on & on & on. So who is sealed to who?

 

[Chris-WA]

Absolute chaos. A woman is sealed to her father as a child, but then sealed to her husband when she marries. Her children are sealed to her, but then sealed to their spouses when they marry…and on & on & on. So who is sealed to who?

So many LDS have left Mormonism because they finally saw the light on problems like this. But most LDS I know just don’t ever think any of these things through to the logical conclusions. Their brains just can’t go there because they are so thoroughly indoctrinated from the time they’re little kids that they are incapable of objective, rational thought on these matters. And asking hard questions within the LDS religion gets you into trouble with your leaders and fellow ward members.

 

[Truth_Faith13]

So many LDS have left Mormonism because they finally saw the light on problems like this. But most LDS I know just don’t ever think any of these things through to the logical conclusions. Their brains just can’t go there because they are so thoroughly indoctrinated from the time they’re little kids that they are incapable of objective, rational thought on these matters. And asking hard questions within the LDS religion gets you into trouble with your leaders and fellow ward members.

I must admit having spoken to the missionaries and a few of their ward members, they initially seemed very open to my questions which I was pleased about. As time has gone on, I feel they are “dodging” my bigger questions. I understand some things require faith but I am also a very logical and rational person, certain things need to make sense to me or at least someone needs to attempt an explanation. It doesn’t matter if I don’t agree, but I would like to see that members of any faith are at least thinking about their faith! The “oh it’s about faith, I know etc etc, I know etc etc…hey look at this cool unrelated fact about the book of Mormon” tactic does not work with me on any level and is starting to irritate me just a little!

 

[jane_doe]

I must admit having spoken to the missionaries and a few of their ward members, they initially seemed very open to my questions which I was pleased about. As time has gone on, I feel they are “dodging” my bigger questions. I understand some things require faith but I am also a very logical and rational person, certain things need to make sense to me or at least someone needs to attempt an explanation. It doesn’t matter if I don’t agree, but I would like to see that members of any faith are at least thinking about their faith! The “oh it’s about faith, I know etc etc, I know etc etc…hey look at this cool unrelated fact about the book of Mormon” tactic does not work with me on any level and is starting to irritate me just a little!

Hey, feel free to ask anything, Truth_Faith13.

 

[Truth_Faith13]

Hey, feel free to ask anything, Truth_Faith13.

I didn’t mean you guys over on RF! I know I can ask you the big questions. It’s just the branch president hasn’t really been forthcoming with trying to help me with my list he requested. The one he did attempt, he gave me paperwork on chiasms which while interesting, didn’t have anything to do with the question! I will come back over to RF at some point but I was getting a little saturated with info!

 

[jane_doe]

I didn’t mean you guys over on RF! I know I can ask you the big questions. It’s just the branch president hasn’t really been forthcoming with trying to help me with my list he requested. The one he did attempt, he gave me paperwork on chiasms which while interesting, didn’t have anything to do with the question! I will come back over to RF at some point but I was getting a little saturated with info!

Cool Take things at whatever pace you deem the best. In the mean time, I’m setting up Christmas decorations! So excited!!! I love Christmas!

 

[Horton]

I must admit having spoken to the missionaries and a few of their ward members, they initially seemed very open to my questions which I was pleased about. As time has gone on, I feel they are “dodging” my bigger questions. I understand some things require faith but I am also a very logical and rational person, certain things need to make sense to me or at least someone needs to attempt an explanation. It doesn’t matter if I don’t agree, but I would like to see that members of any faith are at least thinking about their faith! The “oh it’s about faith, I know etc etc, I know etc etc…hey look at this cool unrelated fact about the book of Mormon” tactic does not work with me on any level and is starting to irritate me just a little!

This is where there is a big difference between the Catholic Church and the LDS. As Catholics none of know all the answers, there is just too much to know, but many of us know some of the answers and are perfectly okay with saying we don’t know much about a topic within Catholicism. There are things we do take on faith, there are mysteries we are incapable of knowing, and we don’t try to dodge the hard questions.

In the LDS asking hard questions trouble. The fact that you are asking questions and getting the run around should be very bad sign.

There is a reason it takes 7-8 months to join the Catholic Church. We want people to have enough knowledge to know what they are getting into. We want them to have enough knowledge to be able to ask the hard questions. If no one on the RCIA team can answer the question, they’ll find someone who can or do the research to get the answer. If you really think about it, would the Catholic Church have lasted as long as it has, over 2000 years, if they were afraid of the hard questions.

 

[Chris-WA]

I must admit having spoken to the missionaries and a few of their ward members, they initially seemed very open to my questions which I was pleased about. As time has gone on, I feel they are “dodging” my bigger questions. I understand some things require faith but I am also a very logical and rational person, certain things need to make sense to me or at least someone needs to attempt an explanation. It doesn’t matter if I don’t agree, but I would like to see that members of any faith are at least thinking about their faith! The “oh it’s about faith, I know etc etc, I know etc etc…hey look at this cool unrelated fact about the book of Mormon” tactic does not work with me on any level and is starting to irritate me just a little!

These are HUGE red flags. LDS often say they are open to questions, but it’s really not true. The moment you start asking the tougher questions, they go into “circle the wagons mode.” They will dodge your questions, get defensive, and if you keep pressing they will play the testimony card where they just tell you that they ‘know’ it’s true because the Holy Ghost testified to them. In the end, your original questions will get no good answers because the fact is THERE ARE NO GOOD ANSWERS, and that’s where Mormonism crashes down in a heap. This may seem harsh but it’s the truth. Joseph Smith was a fraud and a conman. No matter how many times they ‘bear their testimony,’ nothing can change the facts.

 

[KarenAnne]

These are HUGE red flags. LDS often say they are open to questions, but it’s really not true. The moment you start asking the tougher questions, they go into “circle the wagons mode.” They will dodge your questions, get defensive, and if you keep pressing they will play the testimony card where they just tell you that they ‘know’ it’s true because the Holy Ghost testified to them. In the end, your original questions will get no good answers because the fact is THERE ARE NO GOOD ANSWERS, and that’s where Mormonism crashes down in a heap. This may seem harsh but it’s the truth. Joseph Smith was a fraud and a conman. No matter how many times they ‘bear their testimony,’ nothing can change the facts.

I have family who are LDS and I have NEVER had a question dodged nor have I had any pressure from ANY Mormon to be a part of their church. As a matter of fact, I have received more “going around in circles” with the answers I have received from some Catholics when trying to understand things about the church that I have yet to comprehend completely. Different experiences for different people: you cannot wrap all Mormons (or Catholics etc.) in the same package: it just can’t be done.

 

[jane_doe]

I have family who are LDS and I have NEVER had a question dodged nor have I had any pressure from ANY Mormon to be a part of their church. As a matter of fact, I have received more “going around in circles” with the answers I have received from some Catholics when trying to understand things about the church that I have yet to comprehend completely. Different experiences for different people: you cannot wrap all Mormons (or Catholics etc.) in the same package: it just can’t be done.

Amen to that!

 

[Horton]

I have family who are LDS and I have NEVER had a question dodged nor have I had any pressure from ANY Mormon to be a part of their church. As a matter of fact, I have received more “going around in circles” with the answers I have received from some Catholics when trying to understand things about the church that I have yet to comprehend completely. Different experiences for different people: you cannot wrap all Mormons (or Catholics etc.) in the same package: it just can’t be done.

We’re not saying the LDS will pressure anyone to join (but at times I’ve had to very firm with missionaries coming to the door). But living around LDS for 25+ years I do know from experience they will dodge the difficult questions. They’re happy to answer simple questions, but it is the ones regarding the flaws in their belief system many can’t answer.

Trust me, I know Catholicism can be difficult to understand. I am a convert so there was a real learning curve for me. There are still times when someone starts talking about a topic I know nothing about and my head spins. However I’ve never found a Catholic to avoid trying to answer questions.

 

[Tarquin]

Having just reviewed the posts on this thread, I am left with a question.
I do not think the question was brought up - “What difference does it make?”
It was claimed that a person who is married and in the presence of God experiences the greatest happiness. If I were married, in heaven, and with God, but both my parents, all four grandparents, my brothers, sisters, and cousins, my seven children and four grandchildren were in hell, what would my married happiness be worth? Not much. I would be happier being single, and see all my grandparents, parents, siblings and cousins, children and grandchildren in heaven with me. So married happiness seems to me to be relative, not absolute. I don’t know for certain, but this is what I presently think.

Oneness with, or being in the presence of God, can we say that is most ecstatic? Since we will be with all other people in heaven, what difference does it make whether or not we are married to one (or 37) of them? A non-Mormon answered this question early in the thread. Would an actual factual Mormon please answer this? What is the advantage of being married in heaven? I know the advantages on earth - special commitment, incomparable intimacy, sexual fulfillment, children, tax deduction, extra pair of hands. But in heaven we will have nothing but commitment, divine intimacy, countless children, endless pairs of helping hands. What will single people miss, which married people will have? Other than just a marriage certificate?

What is the substantial advantage, not just the subjective emotionality, of being married to one of the many people with whom you share God, Heaven, joy, happiness, and love?

 

[RebeccaJ]

Having just reviewed the posts on this thread, I am left with a question.
I do not think the question was brought up - “What difference does it make?”
It was claimed that a person who is married and in the presence of God experiences the greatest happiness. If I were married, in heaven, and with God, but both my parents, all four grandparents, my brothers, sisters, and cousins, my seven children and four grandchildren were in hell, what would my married happiness be worth? Not much. I would be happier being single, and see all my grandparents, parents, siblings and cousins, children and grandchildren in heaven with me. So married happiness seems to me to be relative, not absolute. I don’t know for certain, but this is what I presently think.

Oneness with, or being in the presence of God, can we say that is most ecstatic? Since we will be with all other people in heaven, what difference does it make whether or not we are married to one (or 37) of them? A non-Mormon answered this question early in the thread. Would an actual factual Mormon please answer this? What is the advantage of being married in heaven? I know the advantages on earth - special commitment, incomparable intimacy, sexual fulfillment, children, tax deduction, extra pair of hands. But in heaven we will have nothing but commitment, divine intimacy, countless children, endless pairs of helping hands. What will single people miss, which married people will have? Other than just a marriage certificate?

What is the substantial advantage, not just the subjective emotionality, of being married to one of the many people with whom you share God, Heaven, joy, happiness, and love?

Godhood: all Mormon gods and goddesses are married.

“Temple marriage opens the door to exaltation in the celestial kingdom”

lds.org/manual/preparing-for-exaltation-teachers-manual/lesson-41-eternal-marriage?lang=eng

 

[Chris-WA]

I have family who are LDS and I have NEVER had a question dodged

Then you’re not asking the tough questions or digging very deep-- like “Why did Joseph Smith marry 50 women, some of them as young as 14?” Or, why did Joseph keep his polygamy a secret from his own wife and lie about it repeatedly to others?" Or, “Why did Joseph marry women who were already married to living men?” Or, “Why did Joseph con people out of their money pretending that he could find buried treasure for them?” Or, “Why is there absolutely no archeological evidence for anything whatsoever in the Book of Mormon?” Or, “If the Book of Mormon is the most correct book on earth, then why does it contain the same errors found in the King James Bible?” Or, “Why did Joseph claim he translated the Book of Abraham from the papyri when there is absolutely nothing on the papyri that has anything to do whatsoever with anything in the Book of Abraham?”

If you have been able to get good answers to these questions, then congratulations, you are the first person ever. If you haven’t asked these questions, then you really haven’t been looking very hard. I highly suggest spending some more time diving more deeply into these issues and, just as importantly, learning about what happens to many LDS who persist in asking their leadership for answers to these types of questions. Their excommunication stories are everywhere.

 

[jane_doe]

Then you’re not asking the tough questions or digging very deep-- like “Why did Joseph Smith marry 50 women, some of them as young as 14?” Or, why did Joseph keep his polygamy a secret from his own wife and lie about it repeatedly to others?" Or, “Why did Joseph marry women who were already married to living men?” Or, “Why did Joseph con people out of their money pretending that he could find buried treasure for them?” Or, “Why is there absolutely no archeological evidence for anything whatsoever in the Book of Mormon?” Or, “If the Book of Mormon is the most correct book on earth, then why does it contain the same errors found in the King James Bible?” Or, “Why did Joseph claim he translated the Book of Abraham from the papyri when there is absolutely nothing on the papyri that has anything to do whatsoever with anything in the Book of Abraham?”

If you have been able to get good answers to these questions, then congratulations, you are the first person ever. If you haven’t asked these questions, then you really haven’t been looking very hard. I highly suggest spending some more time diving more deeply into these issues and, just as importantly, learning about what happens to many LDS who persist in asking their leadership for answers to these types of questions. Their excommunication stories are everywhere.

This post is dripping with hostility, condescension, and hatred.

 

[IgnatianPhilo]

This post is dripping with hostility, condescension, and hatred.

It’s highly critical of Joseph Smith and Mormonism but not outright hateful. Not every criticism is evidence of excessive hatred or hostility.

 

[jane_doe]

It’s highly critical of Joseph Smith and Mormonism but not outright hateful. Not every criticism is evidence of excessive hatred or hostility.

Quotes such as “Then you’re not asking the tough questions or digging very deep” shows condenses and hostility to the poster it was addressed ( KarenAnne) and to LDS. The truth of the matter is Chris-WA has NO way of knowing what questions KarenAnne has been asking or the answers she has been received. Rather Chris-WA assumes that “well, if she’s gotten answers, then she must not be asking question that I (Chris-WA) consider to be hard”. It is condescending, hostile, and self-centric.

Likewise the quote “If you have been able to get good answers to these questions, then congratulations, you are the first person ever.” is dripping sarcasm, egotism, and hostility to KarenAnne and LDS. Same with rest of Chris-WA’s following that.

 

[Horton]

This post is dripping with hostility, condescension, and hatred.

These are valid questions. You made the claim that another poster was able to ask you anything. What about these questions? Can you answer these? Will you answer these?

There is nothing hostile or hateful in Chris-WA’s post. Your reaction to it however is indicative of the LDS mindset that asking the hard questions is not okay. I can imagine a convert learning the above and asking leadership in his/her area and being told he/she can be excommunicated for persisting in these questions.

 

[Peter_J]

Likewise the quote “If you have been able to get good answers to these questions, then congratulations, you are the first person ever.” …

… is not a comment I would be proud to make. But as I’ve said to Protestant posters before (partially in the hope that someone will prove me wrong) I think comments like that are par for the course on Internet discussion forums. In other words, I would predict that if we were on a Mormon or Protestant forum, we would see comments like that directed at RCs.

 

[jane_doe]

… is not a comment I would be proud to make. But as I’ve said to Protestant posters before (partially in the hope that someone will prove me wrong) I think comments like that are par for the course on Internet discussion forums. In other words, I would predict that if we were on a Mormon or Protestant forum, we would see comments like that directed at RCs.

One person’s sins do not excuse another’s.

And yes, I call out such hateful comments regardless of whom is making them or whom they are directed at.