LDS Necessity of Eternal Marriage: What About 1 Cor 7?

[Robert_in_SD]

Hello again all;

During another discussion an LDS poster suggested that Paul’s advice re: marriage and celibacy in 1 Cor 7 was not really about condoning and encouraging the practice of celibacy, but meant something else? While I disagree, the assertion brought to mind what I understand to be the necessity of being sealed to a spouse for time and eternity for eternal progression in the LDS church. So, my question for charitable discussion is:

How does the LDS Church harmonize the statements of Paul in 1 Cor 7, with the LDS doctrine that marriage is essential to realizing the fullness of God’s plan of eternal progression? It would seem to be bad teaching on Paul’s part if he were condoning a practice that would prevent one from progressing in the afterlife as mormons understand.

I’m sure there’s been something written about this. Links or explanations would help.

To assist, here is a link to the text of 1 Cor 7.

Peace,
Robert

 

[flyonthewall]

Hello again all;

During another discussion an LDS poster suggested that Paul’s advice re: marriage and celibacy in 1 Cor 7 was not really about condoning and encouraging the practice of celibacy, but meant something else? While I disagree, the assertion brought to mind what I understand to be the necessity of being sealed to a spouse for time and eternity for eternal progression in the LDS church. So, my question for charitable discussion is:

How does the LDS Church harmonize the statements of Paul in 1 Cor 7, with the LDS doctrine that marriage is essential to realizing the fullness of God’s plan of eternal progression? It would seem to be bad teaching on Paul’s part if he were condoning a practice that would prevent one from progressing in the afterlife as mormons understand.

I’m sure there’s been something written about this. Links or explanations would help.

To assist, here is a link to the text of 1 Cor 7.

Peace,
Robert

Paul is clearly addressing a question or a topic that was put to him:

It is good for a man not to touch a woman.
2Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.

In response, he replies:

3Let the husband render unto the wife due benevolence: and likewise also the wife unto the husband.

4The wife hath not power of her own body, but the husband: and likewise also the husband hath not power of his own body, but the wife.

5Defraud ye not one the other, except it be with consent for a time, that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency.

So you can see that Paul is not the one that made that statement.
More detail can be found here: en.fairmormon.org/Marriage/As_a_requirement_for_exaltation/Paul_said_it_is_good_not_to_marry#ref_fn2

 

[Barbkw]

St. Paul remained unmarried.

 

[po18guy]

Additionally, the LDS belief negates the divine revelation given by Jesus in His reply to the Sadducees regarding our status in heaven (Matthew 22:29-32, Mark 12:24-27): “Are you not in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God? When the dead rise, they will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven".

 

[flyonthewall]

Additionally, the LDS belief negates the divine revelation given by Jesus in His reply to the Sadducees regarding our status in heaven (Matthew 22:29-32, Mark 12:24-27): “Are you not in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God? When the dead rise, they will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven".

It does not negate anything because at the time of the resurrection, marriages will have already been performed.
Jesus also said:
4And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,

5And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?

6Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.

 

[po18guy]

It does not negate anything because at the time of the resurrection, marriages will have already been performed.
Jesus also said:
4And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,

5And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?

6Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.

Twist the meaning of scripture any way you like, it is still twisted. I repeat: The LDS teaching directly opposes the Divine revelation of Jesus Christ. Catholics need to know this. It is the LDS who must deal with it.

The LDS worship a different god, a different christ. If they did not, the Catholic Church would recognize their “baptism”. She does not. Catholics cannot allow LDS “holy lies” or deception to run rampant in the midst of truth.

 

[pablope]

Hello again all;

During another discussion an LDS poster suggested that Paul’s advice re: marriage and celibacy in 1 Cor 7 was not really about condoning and encouraging the practice of celibacy, but meant something else? While I disagree, the assertion brought to mind what I understand to be the necessity of being sealed to a spouse for time and eternity for eternal progression in the LDS church. So, my question for charitable discussion is:

How does the LDS Church harmonize the statements of Paul in 1 Cor 7, with the LDS doctrine that marriage is essential to realizing the fullness of God’s plan of eternal progression? It would seem to be bad teaching on Paul’s part if he were condoning a practice that would prevent one from progressing in the afterlife as mormons understand.

I’m sure there’s been something written about this. Links or explanations would help.

To assist, here is a link to the text of 1 Cor 7.

Peace,
Robert

Notable verses about celibacy from the Chapter ( I think this is what you are referring to):

7For I would that all men were even as I myself. But every man hath his proper gift of God, one after this manner, and another after that.

8I say therefore to the unmarried and widows, it is good for them if they abide even as I.

16For how do you know, O wife, whether you will save your husband? Or how do you know, O husband, whether you will save your wife?

17Only, as the Lord has assigned to each one, as God has called each, in this manner let him walk And so I direct in all the churches.

24Brethren, each one is to remain with God in that condition in which he was called.

25Now concerning virgins I have no command of the Lord, but I give an opinion as one who by the mercy of the Lord is trustworthy.

26I think then that this is good in view of the present distress, that it is good for a man to remain as he is.

27Are you bound to a wife? Do not seek to be released. Are you released from a wife? Do not seek a wife.

32But I want you to be free from concern. One who is unmarried is concerned about the things of the Lord, how he may please the Lord;

33but one who is married is concerned about the things of the world, how he may please his wife,

34and his interests are divided. The woman who is unmarried, and the virgin, is concerned about the things of the Lord, that she may be holy both in body and spirit; but one who is married is concerned about the things of the world, how she may please her husband.

38So then both he who gives his own virgin daughter in marriage does well, and he who does not give her in marriage will do better.

39A wife is bound as long as her husband lives; but if her husband is dead, she is free to be married to whom she wishes, only in the Lord.

40But in my opinion she is happier if she remains as she is; and I think that I also have the Spirit of God.

 

[Prague]

It does not negate anything because at the time of the resurrection, marriages will have already been performed.
Jesus also said:
4And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,

5And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?

6Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.

I didn’t know there was such a thing as flesh in heaven?
Hmm!

 

[BYUChemAlum]

I didn’t know there was such a thing as flesh in heaven?
Hmm!

Do you not believe in bodily resurrection?

 

[po18guy]

Do you not believe in bodily resurrection?

Of course, but obviously not “marriage” in heaven, since it directly contradicts our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[BYUChemAlum]

Twist the meaning of scripture any way you like, it is still twisted. I repeat: The LDS teaching directly opposes the Divine revelation of Jesus Christ. Catholics need to know this. It is the LDS who must deal with it.

No, it isn’t “twisted”. We interpret those verses differently than you do. We have already dealt with it. The LDS teaching is consistent with the divine revelation of Jesus Christ as found in the Bible. It especially reminds us of the biblical teachings found in 1 Corinthians 11:11 and Mark 10:8-9. Please see this article for more on why the LDS teaching does not contradict what Jesus was saying to the Sadducees.

 

[BYUChemAlum]

Of course, but obviously not “marriage” in heaven, since it directly contradicts our Lord Jesus Christ.

Actually it doesn’t, as detailed in this article, as well as these:

Is There Eternal Marriage by W. John Walsh

Doesn’t Matthew 22:23-30 Contradict the LDS Doctrine of Eternal Marriage?

Quite simply, LDS agree with Jesus that in the resurrection, no one gets married nor is given in marriage, since we believe that eternal marriages must have been performed before the resurrection.

 

[BYUChemAlum]

I also find this Bible commentary excerpt from a non-LDS Biblical scholar quite interesting (as cited in one of the previous websites I linked to):

"The case put forward by the Sadducees is particularly extreme. Not only had six brothers attempted and failed to impregnate the woman in question, but she had also outlived them all and was single when she died. It is perhaps this last fact which prompts the question: Whose spouse will she be in the resurrection?..Jesus stresses that in the age to come people will neither marry nor be given in marriage. Notice what Jesus does not say. He does not say there will be no marriage in the age to come. The use of the terms “γαμουσιν” (gamousin) and “γαμιζονται” (gamizontai) is important, for these terms refer to the gender-specific roles played in early Jewish society by the man and the woman in the process of getting married. The men, being the initiators of the process in such a strongly patriarchal culture, “marry,” while the women are “given in marriage” by their father or another older family member. Thus Mark has Jesus saying that no new marriages will be initiated in the eschatological [resurrection] state. This is surely not the same as claiming that all existing marriages will disappear in the eschatological state.”-Ben Witherington, The Gospel of Mark: A Socio-Rhetorical Commentary

 

[Prague]

Yes, I believe in bodily resurection, but not flesh in heaven.
Where does it say we have flesh in heaven?

I thought your heaven had spirit people making spirit children?
Don’t need flesh for that do they?

 

[flyonthewall]

Yes, I believe in bodily resurection, but not flesh in heaven.
Where does it say we have flesh in heaven?

I thought your heaven had spirit people making spirit children?
Don’t need flesh for that do they?

What do you believe will happen to your resurrected body of flesh, if/when you go to heaven?

We believe our spirits will be housed in our resurrected bodies, never to be separated again.

 

[BYUChemAlum]

Yes, I believe in bodily resurection, but not flesh in heaven.
Where does it say we have flesh in heaven?

Luke 24:39 (KJV)-“Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.”

Jesus’ resurrection prefigures our own resurrection. If you believe in bodily resurrection, then you believe that the glorified, resurrected body is of flesh and bones, as Jesus’ own is. Clearly there is “flesh in heaven” if you believe in bodily resurrection, otherwise, what do you believe is being resurrected?

I thought your heaven had spirit people making spirit children?
Don’t need flesh for that do they?

LDS accept a belief in bodily resurrection, where we will have bodies of flesh and bones in the resurrection, as Jesus does now. We will be both spirit and embodied, as Jesus is.

 

[po18guy]

No, it isn’t “twisted”. We interpret those verses differently than you do.

Another way of describing twisting. Sorry, but the Church whose members wrote, compiled and canonized scripture gets to interpret it. Neither the LDS, nor any other faith community (excepting the Orthodox) has the authority to interpret, and so the twisting continues. This is a no relativism zone.

We worship the God of the Bible.

Not true!!! Please stop your deception. Not allowed here. Your god is one of many. Your jesus was made into what he is or isn’t. You want to be god of your own planet!!!

Whether or not the Catholic Church accepts our baptisms is not concerning to us, since we only accept baptisms performed by the priesthood of the restored Church of Jesus Christ.

“Restored”? When? Where? You have no answer for this because there is no answer for this. This ludicrous LDS claim makes a mockery of the true Jesus, whose Church will never fail.

The LDS worship a different god. Period. To claim otherwise is just another one of those LDS “holy lies”.

We all know who the liar and father of lies is.

 

[BYUChemAlum]

Another way of describing twisting. Sorry, but the Church whose members wrote, compiled and canonized scripture gets to interpret it. Neither the LDS, nor any other faith community (excepting the Orthodox) has the authority to interpret, and so the twisting continues. This is a no relativism zone.

So Orthodox (does that include the Eastern and Oriental Orthodox churches?) have the authority to interpret the Bible, in addition to the Catholic Church, yet they come to different conclusions on various issues. Odd.

No, it is not another way of describing twisting. And we don’t believe in relativism. We believe that authority is found only in the restored Church of Jesus Christ.

Not true!!! Please stop your deception. Not allowed here. Your god is one of many. Your jesus was made into what he is or isn’t. You want to be god of your own planet!!!

Actually, it is true. We firmly believe that we worship the God of the Bible (despite what you may believe about our beliefs).

“Restored”? When? Where? You have no answer for this because there is no answer for this. This ludicrous LDS claim makes a mockery of the true Jesus, whose Church will never fail.

Actually we do have answers, but it seems as if you would like to tell me what we “really” believe (something that I know many Catholics are all too tired of when some Evangelicals do this). The LDS claim is consistent with various Biblical passages, as well as acknowledging the free will of all people, and that God will never force us to do something that we do not want to do.

The LDS worship a different god. Period. To claim otherwise is just another one of those LDS “holy lies”.

We all know who the liar and father of lies is.

Latter-day Saints worship the God of the Bible. Period. We do not agree with many of the definitions of God formulated at various councils and various creedal definitions, however we believe that our view is consistent with what God Himself has revealed in the Bible.

 

[flyonthewall]

Another way of describing twisting. Sorry, but the Church whose members wrote, compiled and canonized scripture gets to interpret it. Neither the LDS, nor any other faith community (excepting the Orthodox) has the authority to interpret, and so the twisting continues. This is a no relativism zone.

Not true!!! Please stop your deception. Not allowed here. Your god is one of many. Your jesus was made into what he is or isn’t. You want to be god of your own planet!!!

“Restored”? When? Where? You have no answer for this because there is no answer for this. This ludicrous LDS claim makes a mockery of the true Jesus, whose Church will never fail.

The LDS worship a different god. Period. To claim otherwise is just another one of those LDS “holy lies”.

We all know who the liar and father of lies is.

Po18guy,
are you another one that cannot grasp the concept that 2 different groups of people can view the same person differently?
This thread was directed to LDS to explain our belief in Eternal Marriage in light of 1 Cor 7.
If you are not interested in the topic of this thread then do not post in it.
If all you want to do is to call us names and tell us what we believe, there are other places for you to do it.
Do you know who the father of contention is?

 

[po18guy]

Actually it doesn’t, as detailed in…
Quite simply, LDS agree with Jesus that in the resurrection, no one gets married nor is given in marriage, since we believe that eternal marriages must have been performed before the resurrection.

I do not follow links to LDS opinion, and neither should you or any other human being. I know LDS tactics. I know of the lies and deception that are sanctioned/allowed in order to lure unsuspecting souls in. I know of the biblical emphasis at the start, since the LDS preys upon Christians and tries mightily to emphasize the “normal” aspect of the religion. Normal, except that the LDS god is different, the LDS “jesus” is different and Mormon men want to be gods, just as Adam and Eve wanted to be gods.

God sent multiple prophets, culminating in His only Son, Jesus Christ. All who came after, whether named Muhammad, Ellen White, Charles Russell or Joseph Smith are false prophets. Each of them, in their own crude way, changed the nature of God.

We can have a diverse theological discussion here, but not as long as LDS deception is involved. And it appears that without it, the LDS case simply folds.